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Author Topic: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?  (Read 2397 times)

dreed

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Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« on: October 14, 2018, 09:05:14 am »

The latest story on this website is about "AI" image processing of Topaz plugins where their calibration and algorithms have been trained on millions of images. Elsewhere on the web is a story about Skylum Luminar with a new "Sky Enhancer" plugin that is again trained on AI.

Both of these developments are significant steps forward in what computers to do to make images "better" (not necessarily more realistic) and cut down on humans needing to know complex Photoshop techniques.

Who is the market? Well everyone that takes a photo and wants it to look like some pro's photo.

If this is anything to go by then the technique part of post processing by professionals is under serious assault and within a year or two, it will be a $2.99 app you can get on your phone.

Or will it?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2018, 09:10:06 am »

No app will replace the intellect and the artistry that goes into a fine photograph; apps assist with the appropriate reproduction of the photographer's vision and can make a useful contribution if used judiciously, again an act of human intervention.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rhossydd

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2018, 09:31:34 am »

Both of these developments are significant steps forward in what computers to do to make images "better"
Are they ? Nothing in AIClear that convinces me of it. Just marketing using the latest buzz word.
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Zen8

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 10:07:06 am »

No app will replace the intellect and the artistry that goes into a fine photograph; apps assist with the appropriate reproduction of the photographer's vision and can make a useful contribution if used judiciously, again an act of human intervention.

Ha. I worked in print media. A long time ago the 4 color strippers said we will never be replaced. :) The other day I told my friend that his 2 year old granddaughter may never touch a steering wheel. I do get what you saying. AI will be able to create a perfectly exposed, etc image. I will be also be creative (or is already) - depending on what data is pumped into it. I don't know if self awareness is even possible. Hope not.     
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 11:10:20 am by Zen8 »
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faberryman

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 11:02:22 am »

Ha. I worked in print media. A long time ago the 4 color strippers said we will never be replaced. :) The other day I told my friend that his 2 year old granddaughter may never touch as steering wheel. I do get what you saying. AI will be able to create a perfectly exposed, etc image. I will be also be creative (or is already) - depending on what data is pumped into it. I don't know if self awareness is even possible. Hope not.
Until AI is telepathic, it won't replace creativity. That's not going to happen in what remains of my lifetime, so I am not concerned.

Zen8

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 11:15:24 am »

Some say we are a hologram or just a advanced version of the Sims :)   

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 01:52:29 pm »

Some say we are a hologram or just a advanced version of the Sims :)   

advanced?

Jeremy
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Zen8

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2018, 01:57:54 pm »

I don't know. I just seen it on TV once. Not sure which network because some provide shady information. I don't if the presenters were accredited or not.             

Zen8

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 02:21:40 pm »

If you do a search there is quite a bit on it. This fellow appears to be legit.     

https://bigthink.com/think-tank/theres-a-20-chance-were-all-sims

mikev1

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 03:17:27 pm »

Until AI is telepathic, it won't replace creativity. That's not going to happen in what remains of my lifetime, so I am not concerned.

https://www.thedrum.com/news/2018/05/18/ai-artist-behind-art-latest-bloomberg-cover
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BJL

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2018, 04:54:02 pm »

I am not worried. (Also, I am not a professional photographer, but AI affects my profession too.)  Roughly, AI processing seems to be "mimicking the most common processing choices, as indicated by observing how a large number of people handle a situation"; a glorified "average/typical choice".
- Why should anyone expect to be paid good money to reproduce "average" or "typical" processing choices?
- Why should one consider mere competent execution of routine actions as equivalent to talented, artistic decision making?
It sounds a bit like "pattern exposure metering": a sensible time saving way for anyone from beginner to professional to handle routine situations without complications like making multiple spot metering measurements, with the professional's craft involving knowing when and how to turn off the automation and make less routine, more skilled artistic decisions.
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Zen8

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2018, 05:02:47 pm »

Oil and water are at times considered the biggest resources but data is right up there. My wife read that while Uber is not making money, venture capitalists still invest because they are collecting tons of data.

Telecaster

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2018, 05:24:37 pm »

I honestly don't give the issue any serious thought. My reasons for making photos have little to do with processing techniques. Anyway there's already a fair amount of decision-making built into your Raw processor(s) or in-camera JPEG engine(s) of choice. I'll be surprised if software makers don't keep augmenting/enhancing that stuff.

-Dave-
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chez

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 03:07:28 pm »

I am not worried. (Also, I am not a professional photographer, but AI affects my profession too.)  Roughly, AI processing seems to be "mimicking the most common processing choices, as indicated by observing how a large number of people handle a situation"; a glorified "average/typical choice".
- Why should anyone expect to be paid good money to reproduce "average" or "typical" processing choices?
- Why should one consider mere competent execution of routine actions as equivalent to talented, artistic decision making?
It sounds a bit like "pattern exposure metering": a sensible time saving way for anyone from beginner to professional to handle routine situations without complications like making multiple spot metering measurements, with the professional's craft involving knowing when and how to turn off the automation and make less routine, more skilled artistic decisions.

Well with the hugely vast majority of people thinking cellphone images are great and with AI in these cellphones advancing at amazing rates...will there be anyone left who really gives a damn if you created art the hard way?
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BJL

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 09:53:50 pm »

...will there be anyone left who really gives a damn if you created art the hard way?
Should people care that something was created "the hard way", or just about whether the hard work resulted is something artistically better than — or just interestingly different from — what they can get themselves from a small camera with big processing power? Not that there is anything wrong with some people wanting "hand-crafted" and paying extra for it, but I do not see that artists or artisans are "entitled" to be paid for hard work unless it improves over what can now be attained more easily and at far lower cost.

But perhaps I am just one of those soleless people who prefers a $50 digital watch over a $5000 hand-crafted mechanical masterpiece that keeps time less accurately.
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Rory

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2018, 12:37:16 pm »

I am not worried. (Also, I am not a professional photographer, but AI affects my profession too.)  Roughly, AI processing seems to be "mimicking the most common processing choices, as indicated by observing how a large number of people handle a situation"; a glorified "average/typical choice".
- Why should anyone expect to be paid good money to reproduce "average" or "typical" processing choices?
- Why should one consider mere competent execution of routine actions as equivalent to talented, artistic decision making?
It sounds a bit like "pattern exposure metering": a sensible time saving way for anyone from beginner to professional to handle routine situations without complications like making multiple spot metering measurements, with the professional's craft involving knowing when and how to turn off the automation and make less routine, more skilled artistic decisions.

Perhaps you should be more worried.  Game theory is the hotbed of AI development.  AI has gone far beyond "competent" for chess and go.  This is a specific AI "intelligence", but a AI general intelligence is potentially not too far away (1-3 human generations).  We should also be asking ourselves what creativity is.  I am not convinced it is uniquely the ability of human beings.

Given that the development of AI is likely the most significant development in human history we should be spending time understanding the possibilities and implications.
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32BT

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2018, 01:10:27 pm »

AI in its current state is merely an efficient way of encoding patterns, which still requires a skilled designer upfront to guarantee any reasonable rate of success. Creativity requires a deeply felt desire to communicate, and AI, no matter how advanced, will never "feel" a need to communicate, and especially not via an art expression because of for example an inability to articulate this desire via other means.
 

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Rory

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2018, 02:38:38 pm »

AI in its current state is merely an efficient way of encoding patterns, which still requires a skilled designer upfront to guarantee any reasonable rate of success. Creativity requires a deeply felt desire to communicate, and AI, no matter how advanced, will never "feel" a need to communicate, and especially not via an art expression because of for example an inability to articulate this desire via other means.

I think you are underestimating human creativity in the AI realm. It’s not here now in AI, but I think it will be in the future. I get nervous when I hear people using “never” in discussions.  I suspect human creativity is just pattern recognition and extension.
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Zen8

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2018, 03:09:44 pm »

Interesting. Aren't we just a result of being filled with data over our lifespan?     

32BT

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Re: Will "AI" in post processing overtake craft?
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 03:17:41 pm »

  I suspect human creativity is just pattern recognition and extension.

In that case, you have reason to be scared yes! ;-)

The question is what pattern do you recognise or extend when we communicate the concept "infinity"? The remarkable part there is not that we recognise or extend a pattern, but rather that we can negate a pattern and remain completely confident about our sanity.
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