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Author Topic: Getting autotone to work adequately  (Read 2574 times)

Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2018, 10:40:33 AM »

Glad that worked. Something gets stuck once in a while.

Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2018, 09:47:12 AM »

So, Jeff, who’s to blame for almost every image jumping to -20 Contrast? Which then I not only have to reset to zero, but often go for +20.

Just thinking about this post. If there is a bug what is it doing? If Slobodan is going +20 from Sensei's -20 is the bug doing the opposite of what it is supposed to? I made a change to my workflow and I'm wondering if I should do more.

Sensei was a pretty big roll out. Blogs, etc all over the place. It doesn't seem like Adobe is in a big hurry to correct it.     

mcbroomf

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2018, 10:57:34 AM »


Problem solved!  I knew it had to be simple.

First photo is autotone with Camera Standard profile.
Second is autotone with Adobe Standard.
The difference is huge and the second image is pretty close.
I tend to prefer the colours with Camera Standard, but not enough to make a difference when I have a lot of images to process and autotone works so much better.

Thanks Jeff and Zen8!

I've not done a quantative test but if you prefer Camera Standard colours but need/want autotone then you can apply the Camera Standard profile after an autotone in Adobe Standard.  Not sure if this will give exactly what you want as I don't have an image that reacts the same as the example you posted.
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Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2018, 06:45:58 PM »

I never thought of that. Thanks, I'll try it out. A while ago I played around with Adobe Vivid and set parameters in the Personalized Auto Tone plug-in to desaturate because Vivid has too much. I found it easier to tone down with Vivid than to tone up with Adobe Colour.

That is what I'm doing now. For my wildlife work, etc it works fine. I was going to test one my ColourChecker profiles but forgot to. I'll do that.                 

Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2018, 07:20:15 PM »

Well that didn't take long. First off the reason I use Vivid (beside the saturation) it has this slight punch that Adobe Colour lacks compared to Camera Standard. I have tried to get Adobe Colour to match and no matter what I did, blacks, contrast, etc I couldn't reproduce it.

Very interesting. That worked quite well. After applying Auto Tone and switching to Canon Standard that punch came back. The Auto Tone button deactivated but there were no changes to adjustments.

Thanks very much :) I was wondering if that $12 was a good investment here. That is 1 ½ beers at the next hockey game ;)                                 

Schewe

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2018, 07:25:16 PM »

Just thinking about this post. If there is a bug what is it doing?

The AI has been trained by evaluating thousands of images...several thousand I've been paid to do. However, many of the other images have been poorly adjusted in an inconsistent manner–which is why I'm going back over previous image settings to images used to train and correcting them. The minus contrast has been a problem that we're trying to smooth out. I'm currently working on 200 images of just faces–to help train the AI on skin tone.

Quote
It doesn't seem like Adobe is in a big hurry to correct it.

It takes time...the first rollout was a big improvement, it's been updated 2 times (as far as I know) and it's due to another update soonish. Hopefully (and based on testing I've done on recent test builds) some of the wrinkles are getting smoothed out :~)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 07:32:58 PM by Schewe »
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Rory

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2018, 07:33:43 PM »

It takes time...the first rollout was a big improvement, it's been updated 2 times (as far as I know) and it's due to another update soonish. Hopefully (and based on testing I've done on recent test builds) some of the wrinkles are getting smoothed out :~)

Thanks for the update Jeff.
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Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2018, 07:41:10 PM »

Yes I have been in roll outs. First one is always big and there are always some speed bumps. Lot's of work and it is appreciated. Auto is part of my workflow now and contrast is an easy fix. Looking forward to the update. In Blog's, etc Adobe said they would keep improving it. Thanks for the update.                   

jrp

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2018, 04:43:12 PM »

Glad that this is being worked on. Adobe has access to a large image library and ought to be able to train Lightroom straightforwardly. The tech is no longer in the real of rocket science.
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DP

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2018, 05:51:31 PM »

Glad that this is being worked on. Adobe has access to a large image library and ought to be able to train Lightroom straightforwardly. The tech is no longer in the real of rocket science.

the issue is we are getting Schewe's ideas how to "adjust" images... to get it to work adequately, ACR/LR shall learn from customer's own adjustments (and not Schewe's) and keep that "database" probably in local cloud account (for each customer) ;D
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DP

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2018, 05:55:50 PM »

and since the AI is already trained on my style and taste

now I understand what it is so <self-censored>, thank you for shedding the light
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jrsforums

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2018, 06:10:28 PM »

the issue is we are getting Schewe's ideas how to "adjust" images... to get it to work adequately, ACR/LR shall learn from customer's own adjustments (and not Schewe's) and keep that "database" probably in local cloud account (for each customer) ;D

I have no problem with whoever is inputting to improve the AI response.

However, it would be nice if Adobe incorporated the capabilities of Jeffrey Friedl’s ‘Personalized Auto Tone’, so each of us could easily fine tune....within the built in auto tone function

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John

Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2018, 12:32:14 AM »

That would be a nice addition. One thing I like about that plug-in is you can apply it for a group or all images while in the Develop module.         
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 12:41:34 AM by Zen8 »
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jrsforums

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2018, 12:47:21 AM »

That would be a nice addition. One thing I like about that plug-in is you can apply it for a group or all images while in the Develop module.         

I would just rather it not be a “plugin”.  It would be great if Adobe implemented it so each of us could adjust our own starting point, but using their AI as the base. 

This way, if the AI generally was to bright or dark, too saturated or flat, we could tune to our personal likes.
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John

Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2018, 12:49:32 AM »

I'll back you on that one. 

dasuess

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2018, 08:30:25 AM »

I have always used Auto-Tone as a starting point and then tweaked its settings. When AI was initially added, I thought it was a big improvement. Somewhere along the way it got very broken, especially exposure and negative contrast.


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Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2018, 09:53:26 AM »

Not sure if you read the whole thread but I also found that it underexposed. I noticed this was happening mostly with Canon profiles, not Adobe profiles. We learned that Adobe built Sensei using Adobe Profiles, which makes sense. Maybe one day they will include other manufacturers. My new workflow is applying AT to Adobe Colour then changing the to a Canon profile. Really works well. I have a preset to switch all the files back to Canon so it takes seconds. 

As for contrast Jeff said Adobe is aware and there will be a fix. For now a preset will get all your files back to zero or your preferred value.     

Zen8

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2018, 10:15:50 AM »

Version 8 is out. I wonder if they corrected contrast?

jrsforums

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2018, 10:28:36 AM »

Version 8 is out. I wonder if they corrected contrast?

Nope.  No apparent change.
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John

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Getting autotone to work adequately
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2018, 10:31:40 AM »

I really liked the AI driven auto tone when it was introduced. It’s useless to me now. Too bad. I’m sure they are working on it.
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