Getting autotone to work adequately

[digitaldog]

So there are the 2 sides I guess. People who are going to use Adobe or Camera profiles and ones who prefer or need to use colour charts for industry standards and Auto Tone won't matter.

That sums it up quite well. It begs the question (request) that Auto Tone not be so crippled as to rely on one generic profile for one illuminant. But I think your idea of just not futzing with it based on this limitation alone is reason not to futz with it. 

[Zen8]

Well hopefully Adobe keeps improving it. For my wildlife work it gets me there faster and looks great. I still review it and tweak as needed. I did an engagement shoot a few weeks ago (which I said I'd never do again). I did not use it and took the time to process everything carefully. It's just another tool that has it's place.             

[Frodo]

Hi Andrew and Zen8
This has been a most helpful discussion.  I find it rather bizarre that Adobe has, in effect, just designed autotone to work just with Adobe profiles and I support Andrew's request to "uncripple" this "feature".
I stress that if I'm taking a limited number of photos that need to be as good as I can produce, I use an appropriate camera profile.  This often involves local adjustments.  But often I have jobs that requires a quick turnaround of a large number of "good-enough" photos (e.g. tomorrow I have a corporate event).  LR autotone working off an Adobe profile is "good-enough" for that purpose.  So I am happy.
I do feel that Adobe should make the limitations of autotone clearer.  if it wasn't for Zen8 and Jeff, I would never have thought of that.
Thanks

[digitaldog]

To be honest, I had NO idea Autotone was based on this one profile. That's why I need Jeff to post more often! But then I don't use Autotone (that's my excuse, I'm sticking to it). 

[Zen8]

I only discovered that my mistake. I just assumed Auto Tone was over protective of highlights in general. Surprised me when I did a test between both one day. I'd like to see LR take the brakes off too but I doubt they will. It think it would require them to collect DATA from not only Canon but all manufacturers. I don't know about such things.           

I'm pretty fond of Canon colour. I have said on other sites - if I could get Canon's engine with all the bells and whistles in a developer like LR I'd pay big money for it. Adobe does a pretty good job emulating Canon colours.

[Schewe]

I find it rather bizarre that Adobe has, in effect, just designed autotone to work just with Adobe profiles and I support Andrew's request to "uncripple" this "feature".

Actually, if you understood what went into training the AI you would understand that the ONLY profile it makes sense to use for Auto is Adobe Standard (or Adobe Color which is Adobe Standard under the hood). If you think about it, Adobe would need to train the AI on each profile included with Lightroom which just ain't gonna happen. The profile is the basis of the tone curve that the AI uses to evaluate and tone map the image. Change the profile you are forced to change the tone mapping.

I do think Adobe should pop a warning when applying Auto to new images whose profiles are NOT at Adobe Standard and offer to change the profile to Adobe Standard but I suspect that won't happen either...

The reason I know so much is I've been working with Adobe since last year trying to train the AI on what images should look like. I've adjusted 1K of my own images and 1,500 images from other photographers from all sorts of cameras and scenes. The AI still messes up from time to time but the vast majority of the time the AI moves in the right direction even if it does a bit too much (or not enough) of certain adjustments. I'm due to adjust another 500 images by the end of the month. These are weird edge case images to train the AI on unusual images.

Personally, I now auto tone all my new images at import because it makes selection editing so much easier...and since the AI is already trained on my style and taste, the AI is usually pretty accurate.

The only limitation is, of course, the AI can ONLY do global adjustments, no local adjustments (although that might show up in the future).

So, if you like the way Auto works, you can credit me...if you don't like the way it works, blame Adobe :~)

[Zen8]

That all makes perfect sense to me. I agree about a warning. 

[Zen8]

Just thought of something else. Does the training apply for Adobe Color only or all the Adobe colors like landscape, portrait, etc?   

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So, Jeff, who’s to blame for almost every image jumping to -20 Contrast? Which then I not only have to reset to zero, but often go for +20.

[Zen8]

I'm not defending what it was designed to do but it does bring out shadow detail. I stated before I didn't like it at first but warmed up to it. With that plugin I split the difference.       

[Schewe]

So, Jeff, who’s to blame for almost every image jumping to -20 Contrast?

Bug...

(not my fault)

[Zen8]

Really. I guess they will correct that one day.

[Zen8]

I think I recall that Adobe will continue to improve it and if I'm not mistaken at one time asked the general public to participate. Thanks for the info about contrast. I made some changes to my workflow. Good thread. I'm glad I found it.

[Zen8]

To be honest, I had NO idea Autotone was based on this one profile. That's why I need Jeff to post more often! But then I don't use Autotone (that's my excuse, I'm sticking to it). 

I'm reading through this thread again. Is Auto Tone based on the Adobe Colour profile only or does it include the other 6 new Adobe profiles as well?       

Sorry for bumping. An intriguing thread.   

Update. A simple test I should have thought of. I tried both Colour and Vivid. Both adjusted exposure equally. The Canon profile unexposed a full stop lower.         

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Speaking of bugs... all of a sudden "undo" doesn't work any more. Neither as a keyboard shortcut (Command-Z on Mac), nor as a menu item (grayed out). The only way is to click on history!?

[Zen8]

Double click on Tone.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I meant anything in LR, not just Auto Tone.

[Zen8]

Sorry about that. Edit - Undo works for me. I can't test Command Z as I over-road that to apply Auto Tone. Restarting might fix that. If not    usually a re-install of LR does it.

[ButchM]

Speaking of bugs... all of a sudden "undo" doesn't work any more. Neither as a keyboard shortcut (Command-Z on Mac), nor as a menu item (grayed out). The only way is to click on history!?

Unable to confirm or replicate your bug on two different machines ... one under High Sierra and one under Mojave. the undo/redo function works as intended either directly or using keyboard shortcuts.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Restarting might fix that...

Thanks, Zen8 (and ButchM). Restarting the computer worked.