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Author Topic: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist  (Read 13850 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2018, 02:40:14 pm »

"Venice tourists could be hit with $580 fine for sitting down"

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/venice-sit-down-fine/index.html

Quote
The mayor's proposal is part of the city's #EnjoyRespectVenezia campaign, which has been in full swing this summer. It's all part of a general Venetian crusade against rampant overtourism.

Rob C

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2018, 04:47:37 pm »

The pressures are too high. They are too high in many places connected with tourism, but how do you manage that in order to create the perfect ambience, the best balance between locals and trippers?

I don't think that you can. There is always the battle between money and peace, and money wins most battles. Apparently, Venice has lost many of its original people because of the very high cost of living, and only the very wealthy can afford to rent and live there - does anybody even think of selling their goose with the ability to lay golden eggs?

Furthermore, would anybody actually want to live there if they could use it to churn out the pennies and still live just a short trip outside? I'm not so sure it can be pleasant living in the middle of a stream of traffic. At least a place like Rome or Barcelona also has space to stretch the legs a little bit and currently, at least, no worries about sea invasion every storm.

I suppose you're probably unlikely to be killed by a drunk driver, though you could always get drowned instead. Guess that's the bright side.

Rob

farbschlurf

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2018, 04:56:13 am »

When I see all the pictures of overcrowded (once beautiful) places I immediately loose my drive to go there ... what a pity.

Obviously a lot of people don't care about that and join the crowd happily. Somehow I guess it's also a special kind of peer-pressure. Been to a hostel recently and heard conversations between those "travelers" mainly in their 20s and 30s? They really talk like they own the world and show off with that ... and thats just the young. Funny enough they all visit the same places they heard of or saw somewhere. Most wouldn't FIND a single nice spot on their own. Proof for that?: Just switch off that navigation system and drive or walk (!) in the direction of your nose and even in the most crowded places after half an hour or so you will be alone probably. I experienced this so many times. So at least you can avoid those hot-spots pretty easily.

Of course that doesn't help those places. It seems to me, the tourist locations got used up and thrown away. They really vanish. Some sooner, some later.

And yes, probably I'm "guilty" being part of the problem as well. Of course I like to see places and see something. But I see the dilemma ... 
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degrub

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2018, 10:04:57 am »

When i was working in Munich my weekend exercise was to pick a new pair of stations on the s-bahn and walkabout between the stations for the day - exploring, documenting interesting things, and doing a little “street” if the opportunity arose. Sometimes exploring the nearby fields and more often the nooks and crannies of city life. All part of a “tourist” place, but off the beaten path sometimes. Just the adventure was my reason to go and see.
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Two23

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2018, 10:41:46 am »

The pressures are too high. They are too high in many places connected with tourism, but how do you manage that in order to create the perfect ambience, the best balance between locals and trippers?



I always wanted to go see Venice, mostly because I'm a huge Vivaldi fan.  I wanted to see the church where he was resident composer (Chiesa di Santa Maria della Pietà?) and maybe even hear a concert there.  I don't care what it would cost--it would be a once in lifetime for me.  However, it sounds like the place is just too jammed to go.  Maybe it's become one of those places that Yogi Berra was thinking of when he uttered his famous quote, "It's too crowded.  Nobody goes there any more."

Vivaldi:  Beatus Vir (RV 795)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xja2Kq2mLd0


Maybe the best I can do now is to go hear Alessandrini conduct Vivaldi somewhere.  The power & beauty of Vivaldi's large scale choral works is something I don't want to miss!  And maybe I should go to the Salzberg Mozart festival before that gets too crowded to go too.


Kent in SD
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:46:32 am by Two23 »
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KLaban

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2018, 11:15:05 am »


I always wanted to go see Venice, mostly because I'm a huge Vivaldi fan.  I wanted to see the church where he was resident composer (Chiesa di Santa Maria della Pietà?) and maybe even hear a concert there.  I don't care what it would cost--it would be a once in lifetime for me.  However, it sounds like the place is just too jammed to go.  Maybe it's become one of those places that Yogi Berra was thinking of when he uttered his famous quote, "It's too crowded.  Nobody goes there any more."

Vivaldi:  Beatus Vir (RV 795)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xja2Kq2mLd0


Maybe the best I can do now is to go hear Alessandrini conduct Vivaldi somewhere.  The power & beauty of Vivaldi's large scale choral works is something I don't want to miss!  And maybe I should go to the Salzberg Mozart festival before that gets too crowded to go too.


Kent in SD

Believe me, there are parts of the Venetian archpegilo where one could feel quite lonely.

Do go for that once in a lifetime trip, I did and enjoyed it so much I had to repeat it, three times!

dreed

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2018, 08:34:39 pm »

This story captures many of the problems:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2016-03-24/sea-lake-chinese-tourism-drought-grain-rural-environment-water/7272248

- the "me too" copying nature of Chinese wanting to make a photo like they've seen
- the habits of the "me too" tourist being unaware of their surrounds (and getting bogged)
- ignoring signs warning of life threatening danger for the sake of phtotographs
- rubbish building up left behind by tourists (the "death" of nature)
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FabienP

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2018, 05:33:45 pm »

This story captures many of the problems:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2016-03-24/sea-lake-chinese-tourism-drought-grain-rural-environment-water/7272248

- the "me too" copying nature of Chinese wanting to make a photo like they've seen
- the habits of the "me too" tourist being unaware of their surrounds (and getting bogged)
- ignoring signs warning of life threatening danger for the sake of phtotographs
- rubbish building up left behind by tourists (the "death" of nature)

Spot on! I particularly like this quote from the article:

"... the task of educating a population of 1.4 billion people is a challenge."

Cheers,

Fabien
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Dave Rosser

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2018, 02:48:11 am »


I always wanted to go see Venice, mostly because I'm a huge Vivaldi fan.  I wanted to see the church where he was resident composer (Chiesa di Santa Maria della Pietà?) and maybe even hear a concert there.  I don't care what it would cost--it would be a once in lifetime for me.  However, it sounds like the place is just too jammed to go.  Maybe it's become one of those places that Yogi Berra was thinking of when he uttered his famous quote, "It's too crowded.  Nobody goes there any more."

Vivaldi:  Beatus Vir (RV 795)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xja2Kq2mLd0


Maybe the best I can do now is to go hear Alessandrini conduct Vivaldi somewhere.  The power & beauty of Vivaldi's large scale choral works is something I don't want to miss!  And maybe I should go to the Salzberg Mozart festival before that gets too crowded to go too.


Kent in AS

Oh you just have to go at right time of year
https://www.david-rosser.com/venice-in-winter
and
https://www.david-rosser.com/venice-by-night
give you the idea though that was 4 years ago and times change.
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kers

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2018, 04:51:17 am »

The first time i went to venice i very much disliked it because of the many tourists and the tourist atmosphere that comes with it.
The second time i was there shortly in the eary morning say 7 am- it was very nice to walk in the sleeping city.
The third time i came for the Biennale. It was a very nice way to be there.
The combination of art and the city works well and you have a good reason to see all the parts of the city,
some are very quiet. BTW the fishing village chioggia in the laguna is worth a visit too.
I live in Amsterdam and the last years the inner city is reaal crowded with tourist.
Even a selfie is not possible ;)
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Two23

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #90 on: September 29, 2018, 11:47:41 am »

I do prefer to photo at night.  It's just easier for me to compose.   In the crowded areas of the national parks I routinely go at night and I'm always the only one out there. :)


Kent in SD
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luxborealis

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #91 on: September 29, 2018, 08:23:08 pm »

Iceland, Angkor Wat, Banff, Uluru, Yosemite, Venice, Dubrovnik, Antelope Canyon, Bali... Sadly, the list is grows daily of places that have become oh, so predicatable, oh, so over-run and oh, so overphotographed. Even ‘recently discovered’ places like Lofoten. Sad, but it can’t be helped. Or can it? Why not go out there and try NOT to do what’s already been done?
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Two23

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Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #92 on: September 30, 2018, 12:48:01 am »

Sad, but it can’t be helped. Or can it? Why not go out there and try NOT to do what’s already been done?


My wife & I enjoy finding spots on the map that look interesting, but don't have much about them on the internet.  Banks Island (Canadian Arctic) was one of those places.  Moosonee (James Bay, Canada) was another.  We've been to Glacier NP a number of times, and each time there are more visitors there than the time before.  For the first time we went hiking in North Cascades NP and barely saw anyone else on the popular trails.  The scenery was every bit as great as Glacier!  Mt. Rainier NP was basically a big long traffic jam when we went (twice last year,) so last August we spent a couple of days in an area to the east few even in Seattle/Redmond had ever heard of--the Scab Lands.  I could spend a week wandering around Dry Falls State Park with my 5x7 Gundlach Korona and a couple of boxes of FP4.  There was one other visitor during  the entire afternoon we were there.  There is a world full of "undiscovered" places out there, I think. :)


Kent in SD
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Rob C

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"Thailand is closing its iconic bay from 'The Beach' indefinitely to repair destruction by tourists"

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/10/thailand-is-closing-its-iconic-bay-from-the-beach-after-a-temporary-pause-in-visitors-wasnt-enough-to-repair-destruction-by-tourists?utm_source=Facebook%20Videos&utm_medium=Facebook%20Videos&utm_campaign=Facebook%20Video%20Blogs


There's a greater question: what turns so many people into compulsive lemmings?

It's really difficult to understand why one would be so drawn to a place - any place - simply because it has attracted others in high numbers. I feel no desire to stand in front of the White House; the Grand Canyon would only make me feel queasy, and Venice would freak me out. London could have been an attraction during the 60s because of work-related things, but otherwise, nope. We lived just outside of it during the war... Paris, well, as with London, if I were young, single and still fired with enthusiasm about a photographic career.

My lawyer granddaughter went to Mexico, Peru, Machu Picchu, the Amazon and all I could wonder was why the exposure to pointless (to me) risk, why the discomfort? Why the snap beside a tarantula on a tree? I shall never understand the equation there between reward and cost.

I do understand the desire to visit a place about which one may have read a deep history, that represents the physical side of a research project, a historical obsession or something like that; Arles comes to mind because of its painter association. Sandals, the upmarket holiday company, has recently been advertising itself by pushing the number of international restaurants that one can enjoy within one small place in Barbados; to which inner demon is that an address?

Rob

KLaban

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There's a greater question: what turns so many people into compulsive lemmings?

It's really difficult to understand why one would be so drawn to a place - any place - simply because it has attracted others in high numbers. I feel no desire to stand in front of the White House; the Grand Canyon would only make me feel queasy, and Venice would freak me out. London could have been an attraction during the 60s because of work-related things, but otherwise, nope. We lived just outside of it during the war... Paris, well, as with London, if I were young, single and still fired with enthusiasm about a photographic career.

My lawyer granddaughter went to Mexico, Peru, Machu Picchu, the Amazon and all I could wonder was why the exposure to pointless (to me) risk, why the discomfort? Why the snap beside a tarantula on a tree? I shall never understand the equation there between reward and cost.

I do understand the desire to visit a place about which one may have read a deep history, that represents the physical side of a research project, a historical obsession or something like that; Arles comes to mind because of its painter association. Sandals, the upmarket holiday company, has recently been advertising itself by pushing the number of international restaurants that one can enjoy within one small place in Barbados; to which inner demon is that an address?

Rob

And there, perhaps, lies the answer. People are drawn to these extraordinary places despite the tourist numbers, not because of them.

Generally I will go out of my way - and in doing so go out of other folks way - to find my own destinations and locations: hence isolated Greek islands. My joy in India was not seeing the Taj alongside thousands of others but was walking the streets of the smaller, lesser known villages, towns and cities - thankfully free of other tourists - and interacting with the people. Even within areas of high tourist density it's possible to find one's own nirvana. But I do make exceptions. Venice was an exception, her beauty was such that I admit to being moved to tears, the crowds, the hustle and bustle a part of the fun. 

Rob, perhaps being marooned on an isolated island for a quarter of a century has dulled your wanderlust?

;-)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 06:28:12 am by KLaban »
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Two23

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Generally I will go out of my way - and in doing so go out of other folks way - to find my own destinations and locations...


I live in a "tourist" state--the one with Mt. Rushmore (mountain with four carved heads of presidents.)  Most all of the tourists do flock to the "heads" and the Badlands NP.  Regional tourists flock to the Custer State Park, mostly for it's world class wildlife.  That gives me the rest of this huge Western state to wander about in.  Often I'm the only human for several miles.  I've seen things no tourist ever will.  When my wife & I retire we plan on either renting or buying a small RV (such as a Sprinter) and just aimlessly roam the Northern Plains, even up into Canada.  Talk about undiscovered vistas........



Kent in SD
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Rob C

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And there, perhaps, lies the answer. People are drawn to these extraordinary places despite the tourist numbers, not because of them.

Generally I will go out of my way - and in doing so go out of other folks way - to find my own destinations and locations: hence isolated Greek islands. My joy in India was not seeing the Taj alongside thousands of others but was walking the streets of the smaller, lesser known villages, towns and cities - thankfully free of other tourists - and interacting with the people. Even within areas of high tourist density it's possible to find one's own nirvana. But I do make exceptions. Venice was an exception, her beauty was such that I admit to being moved to tears, the crowds, the hustle and bustle a part of the fun. 

Rob, perhaps being marooned on an isolated island for a quarter of a century has dulled your wanderlust?

;-)

Longer than that by twelve years!

However, it didn't damage my wanderlust at all: we used to ferry to Barcelona, and drive up through Andorra sometimes, or take the longer eastern Spanish coastal route to France and on to Calais (eventually, Zebrugge (?) on our last trip pre-heart attack, which ended all that once and for all). Loved every minute of it, and we used the non-motorway routes mostly, though we also tried them out too, and they were superb.

We went, usually in September and were back in Mallorca in earlyish November. The buzz, getting onto the southbound motorway in Calais en route towards Abbeville, looking at those modern art sports silhouettes (I remember them as white) planted on the side of the road was always my spiritual confirmation, telling me that I belonged to the south. If there was a tearful moment of joy, that was it. Got the same migratory feeling before we used to leave for home, driving through Perthshire in the rain, looking at the geese flying in for the season with the same migratory compulsion... some years we did the trip twice, leaving here in April.

I often felt like returning to France on my own, but knew it would just crack me up even more than doing nothing.

There remain two options: if the lottery comes up, I just close the apartment and drive away and do a grand tour of the Relais & Châteaux offerings and buy myself a place in Scotland; the other option, if I simply manage to sell up without any lottery bonus, then I drive back anyway, drifting, and if it all goes pear-shaped somewhere in France due to health, I don't give a fuck anyway - the finances will have been cleared up for the kids and that will be that. On the other hand, the wrong kind of Brexit will possibly have screwed even that possibilty of smooth, medical sailing.

So no, not lost the urge, just the circumstances to make it worthwhile again.

It was one of the downers of last month, knowing I should really be half of a couple heading north on another road trip.

To anyone thinking of putting off life "for when we retire" you are crazy: you never know what's gonna hit you next week, never mind in the years ahead. That chance may never arrive. I regret a very few things I have done, but for sure some that I did not whilst I had the chance.

KLaban

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Travel and photography are my mistresses. I'm never quite sure which is more important but I'm certain that one would be all the poorer without the other.

Health problems have been my kick up the arse to get out there and travel all the more, but there again I realise I'm fortunate in being able to do so. What better way to go than caught in flagrante!   

Rob C

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Travel and photography are my mistresses. I'm never quite sure which is more important but I'm certain that one would be all the poorer without the other.

Health problems have been my kick up the arse to get out there and travel all the more, but there again I realise I'm fortunate in being able to do so. What better way to go than caught in flagrante!


Whoa, Trigger! Can you imagine what an anticlimax that would deliver? Far better to do it in your sleep a couple of hours later. Better yet, not at all.

:-)
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