Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist  (Read 10523 times)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2018, 04:40:21 am »

Gracias, ¡una palabra utíl!

¡De nada, señor Chris!

;-)

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2451
    • Keith Laban Photography
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2018, 04:49:27 am »

As with myself, regular takes you out of the tourist category.

;-)

Could it be that when we are in India and Morocco we are there as travellers, when in Greece we are there as visitors and when in Venice we are just two more bloody tourists?

;-)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2018, 04:55:29 am »

Rob, have you asked any of the locals would they return to the situation from 50 years ago?

I have had several conversations where electricians, plumbers and builders tell me how they have to live with their parents because they can't find an affordable home...

I know quite a few Mallorquins of my own age who are bitter about the way their town has been raped, the seafront road turned into a pedestrian walk, and easy, convenient access to their homes, local bars etc. ruined. The same folks complain about the lack of parking space, and that they now have to try to find some rich guy with a spare underground parking slot so they can pay him in order keep their vehicle safe... no idea how many still moan about having to lock their doors and windows when they go out, which they never had to do under Franco. On the bright side (?), that isn't all bad, because with climate change, you never know anymore whether a bright morning will still be that three hours later. Living on a bay, I sometimes walk about looking at the surrounding mountains and wonder how far inland a tsunami might flow.

Rob

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2018, 04:57:50 am »

Could it be that when we are in India and Morocco we are there as travellers, when in Greece we are there as visitors and when in Venice we are just two more bloody tourists?

;-)


Fairly neat nutshell, but don't forget the personal input factor you take or do not take with you on trips!

Ivophoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2018, 06:20:01 am »

Could it be that when we are in India and Morocco we are there as travellers, when in Greece we are there as visitors and when in Venice we are just two more bloody tourists?

;-)

Not mentioning the bloody colonists / crusaders / etc / ..... we are in some regions.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 06:23:18 am by Ivophoto »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2018, 08:52:54 am »

I have had several conversations...

None of which answers my question. Instead, I heard a litany of standard complaints from perenial bitchers and moaners who only see one side of the coin. But offer them to return to a situation from 50 years ago and they would ask you if the offer includes a free ticket to Germany, as that’s where they usually ended up as gastarbeiters, fleeing the poverty of their no-tourist paradise at home.

langier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1502
    • Celebrating Rural America, the Balkans and beyond
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2018, 10:03:22 am »

Slobodan, you get it!

Several years back, I had a gig on-site of the Grand Canyon Skywalk to train the "photographer-guides" how to compose, expose, etc. white they were working the crowds, all lined up for their walk on the glass over Grand Canyon West. We were there in late spring during their low season. Still, from early morning sunset, hundreds, if not thousands came, mostly on busses from both the US, Asia and all over the world. Many to fulfill their bucket list in just a few hours to see the Grand Canyon.

Many puh-puhed the concept, especially the Grand Canyon purists saying it was an abomination and shouldn't be there. I looked at it as a way to fulfill the wishes of many for their 10-minutes of looking complete with at least some boots-on-the-ground experience, employment and income to the tribe that ran it and more importantly, taking this segment of visitor away from the North and especially the South Rim to shoulder some of the impact.

Many would never have experienced the Grand Canyon any other way than a few hour jaunt from Las Vegas on a tour to this attraction.

The photo of the unwashed masses of photographers with more sticks than the forest was like a trip to Yosemite also several years ago. It was Ansel's birthday in February and the middle of the waterfall glow. When I drove the valley, every turnout was filled and every view of El Capitan was filled with a forest of tripod legs. That wasn't the worse of it.

As the afternoon got later, I started my drive home, about 2-3 hours away. Ansel brought clouds this day, a fairly high overcast. No sunlight was going to come, let alone for Ansel to break the clouds above to let God shine a golden light onto the falls so that thousands and thousands would be rewarded standing and waiting for the light.

As I approached El Capitan Meadows, the road was down to one lane. Cars were double-parked and on both sides. Every nook and cranny filled. I saw my chance... a pull-into space by the picnic ground (I think). I pulled in, got my photo of the forest of human and tripod legs with cameras pointed up. Got back into my vehicle and left content in my trip to Yosemite to get the photos missed by the masses, all clamoring for the bucket-list photo that tens of thousands have taken over and over.

For me, the excitement to traveling to all the popular parks and photo spots of the west is no longer an adventure nor fulfilling. It's far more interesting to go off the beaten path for me to both obscure places here in California, Nevada and the West and to similar gems in Europe and especially Serbia and the Balkans.

Finding the invisible hidden in plain sight and a little off the beaten path still brings me excitement and wonderment. Seeing so many, especially friends and colleagues take the same photos of the same places is a bore.

Though my last two journeys to Italy were near the major tourist-traps (Venice, Pisa, Tuscany, Rome), one trip was in the middle of the masses, the other off season, there were many gems to be discovered if you went a little further, to "see" beyond the bucket lists. However, if something was a "give-me," why not indulge in a photo?

My challenge and the challenge to my friends and colleagues, document the masses by turning the camera behind you or back-off to show the chaos, find a new way to "see" or find the different, new, obscure or otherwise a new POV or the gem hidden in the open. It's tough, but it can be done.
Logged
Larry Angier
ASMP, ACT, & many more! @sacred_icons
https://angier-fox.photoshelter.com

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2034
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2018, 10:04:08 am »

I know quite a few Mallorquins of my own age who are bitter about the way their town has been raped, the seafront road turned into a pedestrian walk, and easy, convenient access to their homes, local bars etc. ruined. The same folks complain about the lack of parking space, and that they now have to try to find some rich guy with a spare underground parking slot so they can pay him in order keep their vehicle safe...

None of which answers my question. Instead, I heard a litany of standard complaints from perenial bitchers and moaners who only see one side of the coin. But offer them to return to a situation from 50 years ago . . .

I heard almost word-for-word the same complaints from locals in Vancouver during a visit earlier this month.  And not for the first time, although on this trip we seemed to run into more people than in the past who seemed eager to vent, even to a couple who were obviously tourists from south-of-the-border.

In Vancouver, it isn't just tourists, but the effects of an enormous influx of foreign investment, much of it from Hong Kong and mainland China, and much of that diverted into residential real estate in the form of towering buildings that now occlude the striking natural setting from almost everywhere downtown except the immediate waterfront.

I had a long conversation one afternoon with a construction worker who was returning home after a long day working on a new residential condominium building in North Vancouver, a smaller city across the Burrard Inlet from downtown Vancouver.  He described one walk-through with an absentee investor who was purchasing a C$5M penthouse, and who wanted some last-minute modifications.  "These guys arrive in helicopters with security guards and assistants, tell the construction manager what to change while the assistants take notes, and fly away again.  Price is no object.  They want what they want."

But he also pointed out that there was always plenty of work for "grunts" like him to satisfy the demands of the rich foreigners.  And, of course, many other Vancouverites make a living by working in the tourist industry.

Two23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 827
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2018, 10:08:51 am »

I have had several conversations where electricians, plumbers and builders tell me how they have to live with their parents because they can't find an affordable home...

I know quite a few Mallorquins of my own age who are bitter about the way their town has been raped, the seafront road turned into a pedestrian walk, and easy, convenient access to their homes, local bars etc. ruined. The same folks complain about the lack of parking space, and that they now have to try to find some rich guy with a spare underground parking slot so they can pay him in order keep their vehicle safe... no idea how many still moan about having to lock their doors and windows when they go out, which they never had to do under Franco.


If things are that bad, why don't they just move to some place they would like better?  I moved from the much larger and more chaotic Kansas City to a small northern city in 1991 for similar reasons and have flourished as a result.  Having visited urban places on the U.S. West Coast and finding only high taxes, crime, high taxes, bums & addicts, high taxes, expensive housing, high taxes, crowded/stressful roads, and high taxes--I come away with no understanding of why anyone would choose to live there.  It makes no sense to me to continue living in a place that stresses you or keeps you from having a higher quality of life.


Kent in SD
Logged
Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris,
miserere nobis.

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2451
    • Keith Laban Photography
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2018, 10:29:48 am »

My stock reply to threads such as this is if I so much as see another photographer then I know I'm in the wrong place.

A stock answer for sure, but a conviction that has served me well.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2018, 10:45:40 am »


If things are that bad, why don't they just move to some place they would like better?  I moved from the much larger and more chaotic Kansas City to a small northern city in 1991 for similar reasons and have flourished as a result.  Having visited urban places on the U.S. West Coast and finding only high taxes, crime, high taxes, bums & addicts, high taxes, expensive housing, high taxes, crowded/stressful roads, and high taxes--I come away with no understanding of why anyone would choose to live there.  It makes no sense to me to continue living in a place that stresses you or keeps you from having a higher quality of life.


Kent in SD

I guess I might answer on their behalf by pointing out that island folks live within a very small circle of community. Even the Mallorquin dialect (a version of Catalan) varies from one small town to the next. Families are deeply rooted and that leads both to a strong sense of local solidarity as it can to hard, generational hatreds within the same area. Think mafia families without much of the violence.

Today was an odd day; without warning I found that lunch at my own table was not going to happen, and I ended up with two couples I know that own property here and come to it quite a lot each year. Anyway, it turns out that the ground floor apartment, two across from mine, had been left unvisited for a couple of months, and when the owners arrived, it was discovered that it had been lived in by somebody who left one helluva mess. The local police have been informed, but that won't solve anything. The people who own the other two floors were away on holiday at their place in France and so the whole block was empty. The block across the garden was occupied, but who knows who strangers are? They could have been friends of the owners, anyone at all. Nobody is going to challenge anyone. Wish I still had my alsabrador.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 10:51:40 am by Rob C »
Logged

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2018, 11:03:52 am »

My stock reply to threads such as this is if I so much as see another photographer then I know I'm in the wrong place.

A stock answer for sure, but a conviction that has served me well.

If I see another photographer then I look to see where their camera is pointed at.

FabienP

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 192
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2018, 05:11:46 pm »

(...)
Many tourists ignore rules or just common sense.  I was shooting an iceberg on the beach in Iceland two years ago.  It was a gem and I was working on a long exposure to maximix=ze the intensity of the water around it.  I Chinese tourist and his girlfriend came running up in the middle of my exposure, climbed onto it and proceeded to take a selfie, in the middle of my exposure.  It was very obvious I was shooting it but they must have had blinders on.  I have seen this time and time again in all the places I travel. On one trip I watched a tourist throw something at a sleeping seal so it would wake up and look at him.

I believe social media has played a big part in a lot of the issues we see.  People see photos on Instagram and want to claim the same one for their feed so they get likes.  It's a different time today with so much of the world traveling and I am not sure it's going to change in the near future.

Kevin, I think this would be a mistake to assume that they willingly destroyed your shot. Many people have no understanding of long exposure shots and think that it is fair game to "invade" the scene if the photographer does nothing for more than 15 seconds with the camera on a tripod. Also, why would it make sense to take more than one shot or wait for the clouds to move? This is a waste of time not afforded by group travel!

Some places are so crowded that waiting in queue is unthinkable, so everyone will compete for the scene. Tourists with selfie sticks have an advantage here since they will frame a shot very narrowly next to their head and thus can move much closer to the landmark everyone seeks to photograph. The poor serious photographer which stands at the back with a tripod will be constantly overwhelmed. In such a scenario, the only solution is to take several shots with that ND1000 filter and use tourist removal techniques in post-processing. Not my definition of fun, but better than nothing if one must have that particular shot.

Cheers,

Fabien
Logged

Martin Kristiansen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
    • Martin Kristiansen
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2018, 01:11:44 am »

Politeness would mean allowing the photographer a moment to finish the shot. However pointing a camera in a public space does not immediately grant ownership and all rights to to what ever the camera is aimed at.
Logged
Commercial photography is 10% inspiration and 90% moving furniture around.

dreed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1716
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2018, 11:05:47 am »

The Internet doesn't do anything that travel agents and magazines and tourist boards haven't always done.

Wrong. The Internet provides an instantaneous way for people to show off where they are or have been. Travel agents and magazines are notorious for choosing moments and locations that are not easily found. It is different when your friend shows off with a picture and tells you where/how/when.
Logged

dreed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1716
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2018, 11:16:46 am »

yes, this is a major problem.  we discuss this on my workshops often.    Iceland has gotten so bad I have not done workshops there in 2018 and wondering if I will in the near future.  Places that were untouched and had small parking lots are now paved and expended for buses.  There are even waffle and coffee stands at many of them.  Platforms are being built as many people are trampling down things.  Many tourists ignore rules or just common sense.  I was shooting an iceberg on the beach in Iceland two years ago.  It was a gem and I was working on a long exposure to maximix=ze the intensity of the water around it.  I Chinese tourist and his girlfriend came running up in the middle of my exposure, climbed onto it and proceeded to take a selfie, in the middle of my exposure.
...

It's not just being unaware of you but also shows complete disrespect for the environment.

Now what you may not have realised is that if you weren't there, they may not have jumped on the iceberg. On many occasions I've stopped to take photos with my tripod and subsequently turned free flowing foot traffic into lots of people stopping around me to take a photo. They don't necessarily see what I see (with framing, exposure, etc) but damnit if that guy looking professional is taking a photo then I should too.

Quote
I believe social media has played a big part in a lot of the issues we see.  People see photos on Instagram and want to claim the same one for their feed so they get likes.

Bingo.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2018, 04:11:48 am »

Wrong. The Internet provides an instantaneous way for people to show off where they are or have been. Travel agents and magazines are notorious for choosing moments and locations that are not easily found. It is different when your friend shows off with a picture and tells you where/how/when.


Okay, there is added whatever to anything, if you want to be pedantic about it.

That said, people buying travel/adventure magazines are perhaps simply looking for articles and photographs of what they consider interesting places, without having the slightest desire to go there. For me, you can firmly put the Amazon and Africa on that list. Were it not for clients' wishes, Africa woud have remaind as an entry on my places of last resort list rather on the been there, done that one.

As for the desire to post on "social media", well, that's a diagnosis of the popular state of intelligence, and off relative engagement values more than anything else. I don't use those facilities, and even as a retired person, simply keeping up on LuLa is terribly time-consuming. Spending more on other sites where there isn't even a basic common interest such as photography to provide incentive seems madness to me. I don't give a shit what somebody I don't know is doing on Tuesday morning or Friday night; why would I? As for seeing the content of his/her dinner plate, the state of their bedroom and hotel pool...

;-)

32BT

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3095
    • Pictures
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2018, 05:17:20 am »

https://www.digifotopro.nl/verbazingwekkende-fotos-gemaakt-op-3000-km-afstand

Or, if you don't care to learn dutch and/or read a machinetranslation, either of which i can fully understand, go directly here
https://www.theagoraphobictraveller.com

Or here
https://www.instagram.com/streetview.portraits/

Interestingly, some of it looks remarkably like what an AI implementation would spew out, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if it was some sort of secret Google experiment, if i was into conspiracy theories, that is.
Logged
Regards,
~ O ~
If you can stomach it: pictures

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2018, 06:57:18 am »

https://www.digifotopro.nl/verbazingwekkende-fotos-gemaakt-op-3000-km-afstand

Or, if you don't care to learn dutch and/or read a machinetranslation, either of which i can fully understand, go directly here
https://www.theagoraphobictraveller.com

Or here
https://www.instagram.com/streetview.portraits/

Interestingly, some of it looks remarkably like what an AI implementation would spew out, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if it was some sort of secret Google experiment, if i was into conspiracy theories, that is.


1. You always come up with something interesting, Oscar, for which, thanks!

2. Before I knew the provenance, I was struck with the framing and eye.

3. Now that I do know that, what are the copyright implications?

Rob

32BT

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3095
    • Pictures
Re: Photographed to death, brought to you by the Internet and the Chinese tourist
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2018, 07:29:07 am »

We should start a virtual-roadtrip thread where we can post our own streetview contraptions!

Logged
Regards,
~ O ~
If you can stomach it: pictures
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up