Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14   Go Down

Author Topic: The Great Mexican Wall  (Read 7109 times)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19401
The Great Mexican Wall
« on: July 05, 2018, 08:20:16 AM »

Not sure whether to post this in the jokes slot or here, but it probably makes little difference.

Tv news informs me that the Rio Grande is drying up because of poor snow production in Colorado. I wondered if this could present an opportunity for some security-on-the-cheap, as it were. Rather than spend money building walls and, as collateral damage, ugly visual scenics, why not take advantage of nature's new, dry gift - bounty, some would say - and work the other way around: excavate!

At a stroke, this would accomplish several things, amongst which would be work for those diggers that I suppose Caterpillar will be happy to supply, and possibly go into overtime to meet production for more, thus helping the American engineering business, and, coincidentally, reducing the pressure on the arms industry to produce more, and the NRA to wear itself out with stressful and sometimes unpopular promotional events. At the same time it would present Mr T with an opportunity to mend fences with France by engaging Lafarge to provide the cement for the new, now deeper fortified sides to the old river, as the firm has gained much valuable experience in desert work in the Middle East. Then, in the unlikely event that global heating is actually a myth, unexpected rainfall some years from now would surge through the remodelled river bed, creating a wonderful, unrestricted and nature-aided method of environmental cleansing. With sufficient foresight, turbines could be fitted as a means to generate more electrical power...

As side-benefit, the excavated earth would be easily processed for gold and other metals and minerals, making this an amazingly productive exercise all round. There's a new head honcho in Mexico, and I'm sure full cooperation is but a request and/or "business arrangement" away!

What's to lose, unless you like walls per se?

Rob
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 08:24:01 AM by Rob C »
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1004
    • Robert's Photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 10:06:46 AM »

Why would you think of putting this in the jokes slot? The idea might only be a couple of adjectives and adverbs away from being public policy these days, especially if you can shorten it to 140 characters. Or is it 280 nowadays, I forget. If you're trying to out-crazy Mr. T, you're taking on a big challenge, better eat your Wheaties.
Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

OmerV

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 276
    • Photographs
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 11:38:53 AM »

Why would you think of putting this in the jokes slot? The idea might only be a couple of adjectives and adverbs away from being public policy these days, especially if you can shorten it to 140 characters. Or is it 280 nowadays, I forget. If you're trying to out-crazy Mr. T, you're taking on a big challenge, better eat your Wheaties.

Indeed. Yet very little of what Mr. T. pronounces is taken seriously. But, because he is the main attraction in the circus we are euphemistically calling "federal government," his popularity does reap the benefits of venality (Exhibit A: Scott Pruitt.) So never underestimate the depths humans will sink to for money, power and fame. Is a trench instead of a wall a joke? Follow the money. Always.

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 608
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 03:07:56 PM »

This might work.  It depends on whether we could entice enough Mexican construction workers to cross the border to do the work.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2591
    • Flicker photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 04:25:57 PM »

Indeed. Yet very little of what Mr. T. pronounces is taken seriously. But, because he is the main attraction in the circus we are euphemistically calling "federal government," his popularity does reap the benefits of venality (Exhibit A: Scott Pruitt.) So never underestimate the depths humans will sink to for money, power and fame. Is a trench instead of a wall a joke? Follow the money. Always.
Pruitt resigned.  Well, I'm sure Trump pushed him out.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19401
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 04:30:43 PM »

This might work.  It depends on whether we could entice enough Mexican construction workers to cross the border to do the work.

Are you crazy? The objective is to provide and protect American jobs and provide a fresh rapprochement with a somewhat miffed M. Poirot Macron!

Using foreign labour would represent the same admission as the British health service is having to face, where about 8% of staff is/has been foreign; I learned that the service is the fourth largest employer in the world. Recruitment of trained nursing staff from Spain has shrunk to the equivalent of zero.

The answer is going to be found in the cars. And aircraft component production or, rather, the losing of. There are those who felt smug when they believed only the bankers and stockbrokers would suffer. Social justice does run eccentric and often suicidal; but hey, we stand alone, don't you know?

Fun days ahead, if you are retired and rich! I'm half-way there!

Rob
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 04:38:18 PM by Rob C »
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1004
    • Robert's Photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 06:18:07 PM »

Maybe he could just declare the wall to be finished. Who'd know? Even if the biased media reported that there actually was no wall, no one would believe fake news like that. They might publish photos of the non-wall, and people on web site forums could argue about whether photos lie.

Are we in a movie?
Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 608
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2018, 07:55:59 PM »

Using foreign labour would represent the same admission as the British health service is having to face, where about 8% of staff is/has been foreign

What a pathetic piddling percentage!  No wonder I hear so many complaints from British acquaintances about the NHS.  I suspect Brexit may make things worse, but no doubt Boris will be able to cook up a brilliant solution.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I read somewhere (University of Texas study, if memory serves) that fully half of the construction workers in Texas are "undocumented"—i.e., they entered without inspection (snuck across the border) or entered legally but are not authorized to work in the United States.

During a visit to Mexico last year—which happened to coincide with the inauguration back in Washington of el señor Loco (photo below)—I spoke with four young men, a cab driver and three waiters, who had recently spent time in the States working construction.  Not an enormous sample, to be sure, but it represented the only four men of the appropriate age to do heavy labo(u)r with whom I was able to strike up extended conversations.  As far as I could tell, they all crossed the border legally.  (But who can say?)  Three, apparently, used tourist visas.  The fourth had a multiple-entry visa, and his last construction job—six months, I think he told me—had provided him with enough money to finish a university degree in psychology at a Mexican university.  He was waiting tables to accumulate enough money to continue his studies until he could determine whether it was safe to cross the border again to get another construction job.  He didn't seem overly worried about Trump, per se, but he knew Obama had cracked down on illegal immigration and he didn't want to risk his visa status.

It isn't just Texas.  My wife and I built a house a few years ago in a small Maryland city on the eastern coast of the United States, not far from Washington, D.C., and the overwhelming majority of the workers—in all the construction trades—were hispanohablantes.  Mostly central Americans, I suspect, and probably the majority of them were working here legally.  (But who can say?)  I don't think we have a lot of Mexican immigrant labo(u)rers in suburban Maryland, and the South American immigrants and visitors around here mostly seem to be professionals; however, my Spanish isn't good enough to detect regional accents.

We've always been dependent on recent arrivals from elsewhere to do the heavy-lifting in the United States.  The Irish, Germans, Chinese, Italians, Poles, Greeks, Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians, and immigrants from various Arab countries—and don't forget the Jews from all over Europe who made the United States the world's foremost contributor to modern science.

So we really need to maintain the immigrant flow.  Because after a couple of generations, the descendants of the new arrivals become as unmotivated and lazy as those of us whose ancestors came here centuries ago.

That's the miracle of America.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:19:08 PM by Chris Kern »
Logged

Two23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 448
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2018, 08:23:26 PM »

Why would you think of putting this in the jokes slot? The idea might only be a couple of adjectives and adverbs away from being public policy these days, especially if you can shorten it to 140 characters. Or is it 280 nowadays, I forget. If you're trying to out-crazy Mr. T, you're taking on a big challenge, better eat your Wheaties.


So, what is your solution to enforcing border policy, and protecting the very poorest American citizens from having to compete with low skilled, poorly educated flooding the country?  Mine is to try to stabilize the countries most are fleeing, helping their governments provide safety, and sentencing American drug users to do edifying work for 6-12 months in those poorest countries that their drug habits are destroying.  And, redo immigration laws so skilled people can come, as needed,  without paying organized criminals in Mexico.  If they still come illegally, they are immediately sent back same day.  I've seen no poll that shows Americans are in favor of millions coming here illegally.  That's the part that Trump got right.


Kent in SD


Kent in SD
Logged
In contento ed allegria,
Notte e di vogliam passar!

texshooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2018, 10:32:57 PM »


Dems don't want a wall.  They want an autowalk (preferably air-conditioned).

Flooding the U.S. with socialist migrants from Latin America is the Democrat Party's ace up the sleeve.
Time is on the Democrats' side.  The Trump movement is pro tempore.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 10:36:05 PM by texshooter »
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6201
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2018, 12:49:54 AM »

Flooding the U.S. with socialist migrants from Latin America is the Democrat Party's ace up the sleeve.

Actually, the we don't need to have immigrants come into the US (legal or illegal) since white America is doing a fine job of killing itself off all by themselves...

Fewer Births Than Deaths Among Whites in Majority of U.S. States

Quote
WASHINGTON — Deaths now outnumber births among white people in more than half the states in the country, demographers have found, signaling what could be a faster-than-expected transition to a future in which whites are no longer a majority of the American population.

The Census Bureau has projected that whites could drop below 50 percent of the population around 2045, a relatively slow-moving change that has been years in the making. But a new report this week found that whites are dying faster than they are being born now in 26 states, up from 17 just two years earlier, and demographers say that shift might come even sooner.

In addition to an aging white population with declining birth rate, the mortality rates have shot up due to drug overdoses, alcoholism and suicides in the white population–particularly in rural areas of the country.

So, ya see, all ya gotta do is wait...
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1004
    • Robert's Photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2018, 03:57:41 PM »


So, what is your solution to enforcing border policy, and protecting the very poorest American citizens from having to compete with low skilled, poorly educated flooding the country?  Mine is to try to stabilize the countries most are fleeing, helping their governments provide safety, and sentencing American drug users to do edifying work for 6-12 months in those poorest countries that their drug habits are destroying.  And, redo immigration laws so skilled people can come, as needed,  without paying organized criminals in Mexico.  If they still come illegally, they are immediately sent back same day.  I've seen no poll that shows Americans are in favor of millions coming here illegally.  That's the part that Trump got right.


At the risk of helping a thread to become a bit more serious than the OP probably intended, I have to respond by saying I have no solution for you, not being an American. I understand completely the need and desire to control borders, you have to know who is coming into your country. (I take as hyperbole the cute little asides about how the evil Dems just want to open the floodgates. That is, I take those comments for what they are, but not as statements of fact.)

Having said that, the level of paranoia about undocumented immigrants seems too intense to me, a bit exaggerated. It's not your biggest problem. The estimates that I saw (13 million illegals from south of the border) are not that many people really, considering that they seem to mostly working, eating and paying rent, which BY DEFINITION, makes them part of the economy. But if they are displacing American workers, as you say, then I have to ask, why aren't those Americans filling out the application forms for the jobs then? And why aren't those American employers hiring them instead?

If there are that many in the country and if they are participating in the economy to that extent, that doesn't happen by accident. There's more happening here that simple solutions, like building an expensive wall, can fix.
Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11101
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2018, 04:31:52 PM »

Hi Robert, according to this morning's paper your PM just said he'll take 'em all off our hands, so I guess you'll soon have a chance to see whether or not paranoia is an appropriate reaction.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19401
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2018, 04:40:34 PM »

At the risk of helping a thread to become a bit more serious than the OP probably intended, I have to respond by saying I have no solution for you, not being an American. I understand completely the need and desire to control borders, you have to know who is coming into your country. (I take as hyperbole the cute little asides about how the evil Dems just want to open the floodgates. That is, I take those comments for what they are, but not as statements of fact.)

Having said that, the level of paranoia about undocumented immigrants seems too intense to me, a bit exaggerated. It's not your biggest problem. The estimates that I saw (13 million illegals from south of the border) are not that many people really, considering that they seem to mostly working, eating and paying rent, which BY DEFINITION, makes them part of the economy. But if they are displacing American workers, as you say, then I have to ask, why aren't those Americans filling out the application forms for the jobs then? And why aren't those American employers hiring them instead?

If there are that many in the country and if they are participating in the economy to that extent, that doesn't happen by accident. There's more happening here that simple solutions, like building an expensive wall, can fix.


Cheap labour. It's irresistible to some employers. In fact, it also helps some consumers because otherwise, without some form of subsidy, the product would often cost more than its value to them. We have the same thing in Europe with migrants, possibly legal, working for money that some Brits find less attractive than unemployment benefits. Farming comes to mind, especially at picking time. Do you want to sell that pretty fruit or do you want it to rot?

Don't even blame the farmers a hundred percent: they, in their turn, get screwed by the supermarkets via the usual sin of bulk-buying, which I have touched upon previously with regard to its effect on the small photographic shops.

It's going to end up the same with the shift to Internet buying instead of buying in a local shop or, ironically enough, supermarket. Banks are playing too, closing down real banks where you can discuss your needs, with replacement, online traps where leaks and mistakes can cause you harm you would otherwise have avoided.

The drive to eliminate the value of people is remorseless; only people can stop it if they pause and think who's going to be next on the unemployment parade. You know, ask not for whom the bell tolls.

Rob

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2591
    • Flicker photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2018, 04:49:10 PM »

I think its interesting that our regular European posters who usually knock America are absent here probably because their immigration policies are more provincial and much less open to immigration.  However, America is an immigrant nation.  Most Americans want immigrants, just that the process should be controlled and legal.  Immigrants have tripled in percentage from 4.7% to 13.5% of the population, a huge portion from Latin American which is why Democrats want the trend to continue and are opposed to the wall and stopping illegals.  Latinos vote for Democrats who look to control American politics in the future.  That's why they are so opposed to any border controls, oppose ICE, want no removals from America back to their own country.   Most of all they want them legalized so they can vote.  For Democrats.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19401
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2018, 05:03:05 PM »

Hi Robert, according to this morning's paper your PM just said he'll take 'em all off our hands, so I guess you'll soon have a chance to see whether or not paranoia is an appropriate reaction.

I was watching france24.com this evening, and the Friday chat show with journalists touched upon the current migrant problem in Europe. There was a huge amount of fudging going down, with arguments for and against the migrants being accepted, but not one person mentioned the real fear, which is not competition for employment: the indigenous folks simply do not desire to be blended with other races and religious beliefs. That's the bottom line, the real problem that is being faced in private but fudged in public. Truth is the first fatality in war, and this is a war of race and religion. It's why we have a rising far-right these days - there are no other avenues for protest at what is happening. People do know about relative birth rates, and the maths are not too demanding; who wants to become the eventual minority's in his own land?

Why do governments and parties try to pretend it is not thus? Votes today will not be votes tomorrow when the demographic is turned on its head; the votes you try to buy today will bite your ass later on in the game when the numbers have made your ideas of democracy irrelevant.

Rob

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19401
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2018, 05:12:24 PM »

I think its interesting that our regular European posters who usually knock America are absent here probably because their immigration policies are more provincial and much less open to immigration.  However, America is an immigrant nation.  Most Americans want immigrants, just that the process should be controlled and legal.  Immigrants have tripled in percentage from 4.7% to 13.5% of the population, a huge portion from Latin American which is why Democrats want the trend to continue and are opposed to the wall and stopping illegals.  Latinos vote for Democrats who look to control American politics in the future.  That's why they are so opposed to any border controls, oppose ICE, want no removals from America back to their own country.   Most of all they want them legalized so they can vote.  For Democrats.

That's precisely the situation with Europe, except that the racial mix has been greater in the States for a lot longer; it's looking at the social troubles you have there because of it that is partly the experience Europeans want to prevent in their own back yard. Throw on the added weight of a religion that is driven to convert or, sometimes, kill those who don't accept it and the fear is even stronger.

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1004
    • Robert's Photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2018, 05:19:52 PM »

Hi Robert, according to this morning's paper your PM just said he'll take 'em all off our hands, so I guess you'll soon have a chance to see whether or not paranoia is an appropriate reaction.

Not many crops to pick up here. Almost all our farming is mechanized. Besides, almost all the labour surveys in the last decade for Canada state that we will soon have a labour shortage and that we need more immigrants or the economy will suffer greatly.

But what I was really getting at, is that maybe the whole issue isn't so simple that a wall can fix it. As a corollary of that, whatever the problems that illegal immigration can create, the economic argument is the least obvious. All waves of immigration have created economic booms, and each wave was accompanied by fear. One of the main talking points of the KKK revival in the 1920s and 1930s was how risky it was to let in Jews and Italians. They were especially afraid of a Catholic-instigated government coup with the aim of putting the Pope in charge.
Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1004
    • Robert's Photos
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2018, 05:28:52 PM »

... People do know about relative birth rates, and the maths are not too demanding; who wants to become the eventual minority's in his own land? ...

One obvious question that comes to mind is that once you (white people?) are a minority, then would it still be your land? What does that even mean? You live in Spain, I believe. Do Spaniards consider you an invader?

There's an interesting discussion in Quebec where many Francophones there use emotional language about how the land there is theirs. Well, they've only been there 400-500 years, what makes it theirs, especially considering that the indigenous people had been there for 5000 years prior to that. I'm a little wary of "groups" declaring land to be "theirs". I have a title deed to the house I own, so that makes it mine, so long as I pay property taxes. That's about as far as it goes imo.

Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11101
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: The Great Mexican Wall
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2018, 07:59:08 PM »

. . .maybe the whole issue isn't so simple that a wall can fix it.

I agree with most of what you said, Robert, and I certainly agree with this statement. But a wall can help to calm things down to the point where a solution might be possible. The point is to get things to a level where we actually might know what's going on and could get a grip on the influx of people.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14   Go Up