How do you like him now? Trump vs the little kid.

[Two23]

What I find most disturbing is not Trump and his fascism, but the American people who are offering apologetics on his behalf.

This is no longer about a difference in politics, this is about choosing between being a humane, caring individual, or an utterly immoral little shit who will excuse the forceful separation of young children from their parents, including pre-verbal children and babies, without papers, with no system in place to reunite them with their parents. This is surely one of the most shameful moments in US history. To not oppose it is to be complicit in an act of evil.

There are something like 980 million people in Central & South America.  Assume at least half of them are poor, might be more than that.  How many of them are you willing to let come here?  Can you give me a number?  Can you tell me what your solution is to keep us from being overrun by maybe a billion or two people from around the world?  So, can you give me a number of how many you are willing to allow to just walk in here?  If enough people from "there" come "here", then "here" becomes just like "there."  Immigration is not a bad thing, but it must be controlled.  It must be limited.  Can you give me your limit on how many poorly educated, unskilled people from places with corrupt and non-functioning governments you want to come and start voting in our elections?  That's basically what it's all about--voters in elections.  So once again, I ask can you give me a number of how many you want to allow?  I think your honest answer is "just enough so that the Democrat Party quits losing elections."


Kent in SD

[stamper]

There are something like 980 million people in Central & South America.  Assume at least half of them are poor, might be more than that.  How many of them are you willing to let come here?  Can you give me a number?  Can you tell me what your solution is to keep us from being overrun by maybe a billion or two people from around the world?  So, can you give me a number of how many you are willing to allow to just walk in here?  If enough people from "there" come "here", then "here" becomes just like "there."  Immigration is not a bad thing, but it must be controlled.  It must be limited.  Can you give me your limit on how many poorly educated, unskilled people from places with corrupt and non-functioning governments you want to come and start voting in our elections?  That's basically what it's all about--voters in elections.  So once again, I ask can you give me a number of how many you want to allow?  I think your honest answer is "just enough so that the Democrat Party quits losing elections."


Kent in SD

98% of Americans are immigrants so a few more immigrants into a vast land won't hurt.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Immigration is not a bad thing, but it must be controlled.  It must be limited.  Can you give me your limit on how many poorly educated, unskilled people from places with corrupt and non-functioning governments you want to come and start voting in our elections?  That's basically what it's all about--voters in elections.  So once again, I ask can you give me a number of how many you want to allow?  I think your honest answer is "just enough so that the Democrat Party quits losing elections."


Kent in SD

Perhaps a solution to this is to extradite all the non-productive American citizens who don't want to work or are addicted to opioids in exchange for immigrants who do want to work hard.  There was an interesting graphic the other day analyzing the Presidential vote down to the county level and relating it to opioid abuse - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-2016-election-opioid-painkiller-supporters-republican-prescription-study-a8413081.html

[Alan Klein]

His campaign rallies are not unlike those we have seen in the Riefenstahl films.  The fact that he continues to harp on Hilary Clinton almost two years after the election and the crowds continue their chants of 'lock her up' makes this an apt analogy.  His disdain for the truth is straight out of the authoritarian play book.  He is a bully and will not tolerate dissent of any kind (witness his calling out of Mark Sanford at the Republican House meeting the other day.  Is this just his own insecurity or is it something more?).  He has done fewer press conferences than any other President in my time.  Point to me where I slighted you in any way.

You call him Hitler and by extension his supporters Nazis, and you ask how you slighted me, a Jew?    Are you out to lunch?  You just convinced me there is such a thing as Trump Derangement Syndrome. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

You call him Hitler and by extension his supporters Nazis, and you ask how you slighted me, a Jew?    Are you out to lunch?  You just convinced me there is such a thing as Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I never extended the statement to those attending his rallies.  If there is a better analogy for an authoritarian who abused the truth please feel free to provide it.  How can this be Trump Derangement Syndrome.  All that was stated is that President Trump shows little regard for the truth and continues to behave in an authoritarian manner.  I think others have asked this question before, '...do you believe that Trump's accusation of fake news is legitimate?...'  How do you reconcile his constant lying?

[Two23]

98% of Americans are immigrants so a few more immigrants into a vast land won't hurt.

That's not true.  What is true that perhaps 98% have an immigrant in their family tree.  I'm a 4th generation American; my wife is 3rd generation American.  No one in my extended family can accurately be called an immigrant.  As for a "few more," you suggest that you too have a limit.  Can you tell me what your limit is, and what your solution is to enforce it?


Kent in SD

[Alan Goldhammer]

That's not true.  What is true that perhaps 98% have an immigrant in their family tree.  I'm a 4th generation American; my wife is 3rd generation American.  No one in my extended family can accurately be called an immigrant.  As for a "few more," you suggest that you too have a limit.  Can you tell me what your limit is, and what your solution is to enforce it?


Kent in SD

Perhaps if the Native Americans had immigration quotas in the 1600s we would not be confronting this issue today.

[Chairman Bill]

There are something like 980 million people in Central & South America.  Assume at least half of them are poor, might be more than that.  How many of them are you willing to let come here?  Can you give me a number?  Can you tell me what your solution is to keep us from being overrun by maybe a billion or two people from around the world?  So, can you give me a number of how many you are willing to allow to just walk in here?  If enough people from "there" come "here", then "here" becomes just like "there."  Immigration is not a bad thing, but it must be controlled.  It must be limited.  Can you give me your limit on how many poorly educated, unskilled people from places with corrupt and non-functioning governments you want to come and start voting in our elections?  That's basically what it's all about--voters in elections.  So once again, I ask can you give me a number of how many you want to allow?  I think your honest answer is "just enough so that the Democrat Party quits losing elections."


Kent in SD

I said nothing about the issue of immigration. I have no issue with the US or any other state having control over their borders. None of your questions has any bearing on dragging children from their parents & shutting them in cages. But a nice attempt at some whataboutism.

[Alan Klein]

I never extended the statement to those attending his rallies.  If there is a better analogy for an authoritarian who abused the truth please feel free to provide it.  How can this be Trump Derangement Syndrome.  All that was stated is that President Trump shows little regard for the truth and continues to behave in an authoritarian manner.  I think others have asked this question before, '...do you believe that Trump's accusation of fake news is legitimate?...'  How do you reconcile his constant lying?

Stop calling him Hitler and his supporters Nazis.  It's not true and it's insulting.

[Robert Roaldi]

There are something like 980 million people in Central & South America.  Assume at least half of them are poor, might be more than that.  How many of them are you willing to let come here?  Can you give me a number?  Can you tell me what your solution is to keep us from being overrun by maybe a billion or two people from around the world?  So, can you give me a number of how many you are willing to allow to just walk in here?  If enough people from "there" come "here", then "here" becomes just like "there."  Immigration is not a bad thing, but it must be controlled.  It must be limited.  Can you give me your limit on how many poorly educated, unskilled people from places with corrupt and non-functioning governments you want to come and start voting in our elections?  That's basically what it's all about--voters in elections.  So once again, I ask can you give me a number of how many you want to allow?  I think your honest answer is "just enough so that the Democrat Party quits losing elections."


Kent in SD

Pointless tangent. Who ever suggested letting in that many people?

The propaganda machine has seemingly succeeded in convincing the richest country on earth that they are under siege and that the rest of the world is their enemy. Why have people fallen for this self-evident claptrap?

There was a column in a local magazine that a few cute examples of countries with which Trump has not started a fight and what they have in common is that they have allowed Trump-related businesses into their countries while he's been in office. Shouldn't this worry you?

When he tweets about specific companies and causes their stock prices to drop, is anyone investigating whether any of his business or buddies benefit from these arbitrary swings?

All of the excuses about metaphor and Trump's verbal style is all incoherent smoke. The main image I have in mind is of him tossing rolls of paper towels at a Puerto Rican press conference. As I said in an earlier post, try to picture him doing that to a bunch of Iowa famers after a major flood.

[Robert Roaldi]

Stop calling him Hitler and his supporters Nazis.  It's not true and it's insulting.

Charlottesville.

[Alan Klein]

Perhaps if the Native Americans had immigration quotas in the 1600s we would not be confronting this issue today.

The Indians did have immigration quotas.  It was zero immigrants.  They didn't want Europeans on their land.  But they lost.  We may lose too. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Pointless tangent. Who ever suggested letting in that many people?..l

Nobody needs to suggest it, it would happen anyway.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

There are something like 980 million people in Central & South America.  Assume at least half of them are poor, might be more than that.  How many of them are you willing to let come here?

Sorry, but that's a typical kneejerk FUD type of remark.

Hasn't anyone wondered that by helping the home countries of these people, or improving their human rights position, there might not be a need(!) for or a benefit to emigration? I'm not talking about economic fortune seekers, but people who think that separating from, and sending their children unaccompanied to another country is a better option than keeping them at home (without food or under fear of prosecution).

But then, that is not being helped by pulling out of trade agreements and the USA withdrawing From United Nations Human Rights Council. I'm not saying that all these agreements are perfect, or that the UNHRC is perfect, far from it in the latter case. But how does not talking help, anyone?

Isolation is a demonstration of moral bankruptcy. Closing one's eyes/ears doesn't make the bad stuff go away.

Anyway, this thread has again proven the power of images, manipulated or otherwise.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

Charlottesville.

Rob, People can have legitimate complaints about what happened there.  But Americans have been loathed to call other politicians Hitler so horrendous was Hitler's policies and actions.  You don't out-of-hand identify someone who gassed millions of people, and killed millions more in aggressive war and unilateral attacks on all of his European neighbors.  In undermines just how terrible Hitler was and accuses the current politician and his supporters of crimes against humanity that never happened.  It should be off limits.   I hope you can see my point. 

 Frankly it weakens your point because people just think you're being insulting and hyperbolic to the point they don't believe you.  They think it's just political and your arguments are invalid. Sure your supporters will eat it up.  But thinking people, independents, will see you're over the top. Maybe I shouldn't be telling you this. 

[digitaldog]

If he's wrong, the Republicans and Trump will lose politically and America will be hurt economically and internationally.  If he's right, then the Republicans, Trump and the country will win. 

2+2 equals 4, therefore, the Earth is flat.
It's really somewhat interesting to see how fellow Americans minds work. If Trump lies, it's because he's taken literally, it's not a lie. If a Dem lies, it's a lie.
We should lock Clinton up for her email server. But Manafort is a 'good guy' deserves a pardon, didn't do anything wrong, like Flynn, lying to the FBI isn't a lie, it's because what he told them was taken literally.
Obama put immigrant kids into detention, so Trump is no worse despite the massive differences in how and why those kids ended up in detention.
Someone objected to Hilter. When Rep. Randy Weber said Obama is basically worse than Hitler, because he's a Republican, we should not be so upset, he didn't mean it literally.
To my non American readers here; I'm sorry you have to see this shitstorm and worse, it affects you. Many Americans are as shocked and saddened as our minds don't work like some here. The majority of American voters did not vote for Trump (oh, then there is his conspiracies about voter fraud, like so many of his claims, a bold face lie that has zero proof). We'll get this fixed and hopefully we'll be better for the experience but it will take time. Meanwhile, unfortunately, the US has white immigrants that believe in racism, the concept that their opponents should be locked up, that the free press is all fake, that one needs no compassion for babies removed from their moms etc.

[digitaldog]

But Americans have been loathed to call other politicians Hitler so horrendous was Hitler's policies and actions. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/01/13/texas-congressman-randy-weber-says-obama-is-basically-worse-than-hitler/?utm_term=.0cb5456c2e53

[digitaldog]

Nobody needs to suggest it, it would happen anyway.

IOW, I'm in, now shut the door. Got it. As to it would happen (all would flee here) more speculation you consider fact, like lies are metaphors. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

What I find most disturbing is not Trump and his fascism, but the American people who are offering apologetics on his behalf.

This is no longer about a difference in politics, this is about choosing between being a humane, caring individual, or an utterly immoral little shit who will excuse the forceful separation of young children from their parents, including pre-verbal children and babies, without papers, with no system in place to reunite them with their parents. This is surely one of the most shameful moments in US history. To not oppose it is to be complicit in an act of evil.

And now to return to some photography. Have fun folks.

Dear Bill,

You just constructed a giant straw man and then called us who see it as such “utterly immoral little shit.”

Sincerely,

Slobodan,
Your utterly immoral little shit

[RSL]

98% of Americans are immigrants so a few more immigrants into a vast land won't hurt.

The problem with that logic, Robert, is that if you follow it to its conclusion you have to admit that we're all immigrants unless we came from the place where man first became man. I think that was somewhere in Southeast Asia, though current "science" disagrees. My equally scientific conclusion comes from having spent a couple years there and waking in the night feeling it in my bones.