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Author Topic: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer  (Read 19438 times)

jtmiller

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2019, 09:52:59 am »

Amazingly quiet on this topic and it's now the middle of January.

Did HP actually launch this?

Jim
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mearussi

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #101 on: January 13, 2019, 10:05:13 am »

Amazingly quiet on this topic and it's now the middle of January.

Did HP actually launch this?

Jim
I think you can buy them, but without a professional review who would buy it (unless they just have $6K to experiment with)?
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deanwork

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2019, 11:14:44 am »


The whole thing is bizarre. They have had 10 years to work on two issues, improve speed and refine the sheet feeding. They didnít need a whole inkset or anything complex to do that. Canon did it with 12 inks and HP has a bigger budget to do the same thing with much better longevity and the amazing profiling to take that market.

My suspicion is theyíve pretty much  dropped the goal of supporting fine photography and puts the emphasis on ď graphic designĒ which includes  graphic photo applications of less precision. I hope Iím totally wrong, but the evidence isnít promising.

Itís really hard to know what the hell their thinking is. Epson and Canon have killed them in the photo advertising arena for as long as Iíve used their products, about 13 years, and now their industry promotion is dead in the water for what two years now?

These Z series are amazing in so many ways. I just completely restored my Z3100 to use as a backup for my z3200. They system is modular and you just replace small components in 90% of cases. Mine was unused and unplugged for about 8 months. All I had to do was replace a few $78.00 heads and I was back in business. What I learned was the ink lines are sealed, so unlike other printers like Epson, ink wonít dry in the lines. So many good features with these units.

John


I think you can buy them, but without a professional review who would buy it (unless they just have $6K to experiment with)?
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kevinmcdnyc

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #103 on: January 17, 2019, 08:31:32 am »

Hi Kevin
Yes , we own one , we buy the 44inch Z9 single roll , replacing a Z3200.

Charles



Charles, as you are using the Z9 (the only one that we know of), how has your experience been?  Are you happy with the output and performance of the printer?

Thanks,
Kevin
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 09:55:57 am by kevinmcdnyc »
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ConnorRay

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2019, 05:33:04 am »

What happened with Stevens samples? Any news, itís been four monthsÖ
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stevenfr

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2019, 08:56:51 am »

The HP printer in Washington State that HP uses could not match the prints I made from the Canon 8400 that I use. I gave them a roll of the same paper Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and my files from the Phase One iq3 100 camera. The prints were very disappointing. I am not sure if they had issues in creating a profile from the z9 or if they did not tweak my files to try and match my prints. I was told they did try to tweak the prints.

I was told my test prints and files would be sent further up the hierarchy at HP to see why the prints are so different. I followed up in early December, but have not got a response.

My suspicion is maybe the lab did not create the profile correctly.

I am on a shoot in Hokkaido. Just arrived after 16 hrs of travel. Kind of tired and have a busy schedule. If you want more info on my findings email me when I return on Feb 4th. I have a list of observations comparing their prints to mine.

mearussi

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« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 09:00:42 am by mearussi »
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #107 on: January 25, 2019, 10:01:40 am »

I spoke with an HP Tier 3 engineer about the Z9+ utility.  I was sent screen shots while we were walking through the utility over the phone.

The Utility is basically the same thing - ability to create custom profiles with the spectrophotometer (ESP), however,

NO COLOR MEASUREMENT.  It's missing from the utility, (gelded) which means no ability to input reference files to make extended patch targets, or to export a tiff for later measurement.  Not good.

Have have sent an email that was forwarded to Barcelona.  Will see what comes of it.

Dissapointed.

-Mark
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deanwork

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2019, 07:20:44 pm »

So sad. Looks like they didnít even appreciate the advancements in their own technology, world class bw and world class extended profile creation of the previous series.




I spoke with an HP Tier 3 engineer about the Z9+ utility.  I was sent screen shots while we were walking through the utility over the phone.

The Utility is basically the same thing - ability to create custom profiles with the spectrophotometer (ESP), however,

NO COLOR MEASUREMENT.  It's missing from the utility, (gelded) which means no ability to input reference files to make extended patch targets, or to export a tiff for later measurement.  Not good.

Have have sent an email that was forwarded to Barcelona.  Will see what comes of it.

Dissapointed.

-Mark
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glyph

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2019, 08:16:44 pm »

Neil Snape's comments on the DP Review thread are certainly disheartening. Lots of amazing tech has come out of HP, but it seems to have all been despite their management, not because of it.

OT: I always forget just how bad the UI is on DP Review until I come across a thread I'm interested in there. Finger's crossed that LL remains a viable alternative.
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stevenfr

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #110 on: January 26, 2019, 03:21:24 am »

I am not sure why they didnít update the z3200 making it faster.

enduser

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #111 on: January 26, 2019, 08:57:30 pm »

I should point out an HP win however. I have a 24 inch T120 HP printer. For around $900 or less it is a motor drive, roll equipped inkjet printer. It uses only three dye colors and a pigment black. This isn't the full story though, as the roll loading has automatic skew correction and is powered in both directions. The DPI at 1200 x 2400 is exactly the same as a Canon Pro 2000.

HP have developed a new dot placement algorithm that does away with light magenta and light Cyan, and when I produced a print on glossy paper at max detail two trained observers were unable to say which was done by the HP or the Canon 6100.

Ah, but I hear you say, "it's dye". Not any more. A supplier provides re-manufactured cartridges with pigment ink.  We have been using these for months and the printer responds without protest. I didn't even notice they were pigment ink carts until after many months exposure to Australian summer sun, there was little if any fade. I thought initially that I had a new long lasting dye but a water fastness test showed it was pigment. A visit to the suppliers site confirmed this but I hadn't noticed earlier.

The poor marketing of HP products is reflected on the Australian large format printers site where they say the T120 is only a 1200 x1200 dpi machine because, it seems, nobody could be bothered digging into the driver  and and enabling "max detail".
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deanwork

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #112 on: January 27, 2019, 10:38:51 am »

The Canon IPF 6100 was certainly nothing to write home about. I remember us comparing the quality of that first Canon 12 ink series compared to the HP z3100 and Epson 7880 when they all came out ( what was that 13 years ago? ) and all of us decided that the dither of the Canon at that time was not ready for prime time.  When they came out with the 6300 it was equal to the z3100.

As for third party pigment inks there are none with even remotely the longevity of oem, much less reliable color consentency from batch to batch, which is critical for me. But the big problem in my opinion with the new Zs was removing the light light gray. I wanted them to add one more light gray for a true quad inkset ( and could have done that by removing only the light magenta while improving their dot placement a tiny bit, but they went in the other was for super speed, which for me is going backward not competing with Epson and Canon in the high end photo realm. The T series is essentially a poster and graphics machine, nothing wrong wit that, but why are they going there with the Z series as well? What is also strange to me is HP has no professional samples to prove their image quality statements and even stranger that after a year and a half I havenít heard of a single review high end printmaker who is using these machines regularly.

Indeed, all they needed to do was increase the speed and sheet feeding module of the Z3200 to own that market. I have a feeling a lot of those creative art conscious engineers are no longer around, like Angel who created the brilliant software for making digital negs and reading the analogue patches right in the printer. That was imagination and they never promoted it.



I should point out an HP win however. I have a 24 inch T120 HP printer. For around $900 or less it is a motor drive, roll equipped inkjet printer. It uses only three dye colors and a pigment black. This isn't the full story though, as the roll loading has automatic skew correction and is powered in both directions. The DPI at 1200 x 2400 is exactly the same as a Canon Pro 2000.

HP have developed a new dot placement algorithm that does away with light magenta and light Cyan, and when I produced a print on glossy paper at max detail two trained observers were unable to say which was done by the HP or the Canon 6100.

Ah, but I hear you say, "it's dye". Not any more. A supplier provides re-manufactured cartridges with pigment ink.  We have been using these for months and the printer responds without protest. I didn't even notice they were pigment ink carts until after many months exposure to Australian summer sun, there was little if any fade. I thought initially that I had a new long lasting dye but a water fastness test showed it was pigment. A visit to the suppliers site confirmed this but I hadn't noticed earlier.

The poor marketing of HP products is reflected on the Australian large format printers site where they say the T120 is only a 1200 x1200 dpi machine because, it seems, nobody could be bothered digging into the driver  and and enabling "max detail".
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MHMG

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2019, 01:12:58 pm »

... But the big problem in my opinion with the new Zs was removing the light light gray. I wanted them to add one more light gray for a true quad inkset ( and could have done that by removing only the light magenta while improving their dot placement a tiny bit, but they went in the other was for super speed, which for me is going backward not competing with Epson and Canon in the high end photo realm.

It's really hard to know what kind of B&W or color print quality the Z9+ is capable of merely by reading the specs and the gushing promotional literature on HP's new "pixel control" technology. On the face of it, I agree, removing the light channels, especially the light gray, sounds like a big step in the wrong direction for highest quality photographic tone reproduction. That said, HP scientists would have had a few variables to play with in the new printer design that might even the score or perhaps improve B&W, dare we hope, compared to the older Z3100/Z3200 series. One of those variables is, of course, the smaller drop-size nozzles in the new head design.  A second variable is the pigment density levels. For example, HP scientists could have moved the Z9 gray pigment concentration levels closer to Z3200's light gray pigment concentration level such that when printing through the finer nozzle pattern, HP could recover or possibly gain on both color and B&W output "continuous tone" quality. High gray component replacement (GCR) as was done with the older Zs would still have to factor heavily into the new "pixel control" screening patterns to get wonderfully neutral gray scale ramps as would use of extended patch count profiling charts over and above the basic chart used by the "easy profiling mode' of the HP color utility menu.

All that said, we just don't know much about the highest attainable print quality from this new printer compared to other printers, especially the older Z3200, even though the Z9s have been on the market for several months now. The lack of positive commentary on the internet about Z9 print quality does seem bewildering no matter how you look at it. The few folks who claim to own one have to date revealed almost nothing about their satisfaction with the Z9 print quality and printer reliability. Colourgeek's comments over on the dpReview printers and printing forum about his new Z9 are notably subdued.  Moreover, samples distributed by HP marketing seem to have disappointed discerning printmakers who've seen them, but that isn't a definitive ruling. So, the jury is still out, IMHO, but it's not looking good.

Lastly, for folks like myself who are enjoying the advanced measurement capabilities of the built-in spectrophotometer on our Z3200 printers, the fact that HP appears to have crippled the spectro capabilities on the new Z9 is a huge disappointment :(  I was hoping the Z9 would be a pathway forward for me when it comes time to retire my Z3200. One can only hope that HP might decide to reinstate the advanced spectro measurement abilities in a newer version of the Z9 color utility. 

kind regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 02:34:52 pm by MHMG »
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enduser

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #114 on: January 27, 2019, 06:25:17 pm »

Deanwork, your comments are all valid but as all I make are prints of my wife's art work the issue of color consistency (if one exists) is a little less important for me than others. As for permanency, it is unlikely that the OEM life will be matched. However, I have the lowest price 24" pigment printer, which has benefits over the dyes previously used - waterproof, way longer life than the dyes and AliExpress prices.

Inks are pressurized in the T120 but ink tubes are not used as the carts and head both travel together. Printheads, one for four inks, are less than $100. The machine is simple and robust over three years of use.

My comments are in this thread because I agree that HP Sales don't seem to know much about what they sell.
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jimcamel

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2019, 08:42:40 pm »

I've had mine (44", z9+, single roll) in the Toronto area since late last fall.  Sadly we've been travelling a lot and I've had precious little time to run a lot of prints.  I've come from an Eps 7900 background so I am looking forward to MUCH better printer reliability as compared.  I've proofed with a bunch of my remaining Epson stock I've had and generated ICC's for premium lustre, enhanced matte and cold press natural and basically I'm just finishing off some 24" rolls.  Now I've ordered some additional paper and I've had to buy a full set of replacement inks since the ship-with's are running low.

So, if you are in the Toronto, or at least the Southern Ontario Canada, area and you want to converse, compare some prints and so forth I am open to the experimentation, testing and learning experience. I'd be especially interested in having you bring 'your best' and re-print to compare and learn.

I'll be in Toronto late February and then back in the Spring for the summer.  Contact me privately if you want to 'play'.

My initial experience was rocky in that I did update to the latest firmware on Dec 24th and almost bricked it - in that it would no longer communicate successfully.  Finally resolved that with a lot of support on Dec 26-28th with engineering releasing to me a new version of the DesignJet Utility which was impacting the new firmware.  Got that resolved.  I've had trouble feeding Cold Press Natural - so that's still a work in progress but some of the prints I did produce on it were great - but, of course, I didn't have much to compare to as my 7900 was not working well in 2017 and 2018.  So I am interested in seeing some other comparisons.
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kevinmcdnyc

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #116 on: February 07, 2019, 10:20:48 am »

Jim,

Thank you for you post. It's great seeing the machine in someone's space. Please continue to post your experiences with the new printer.

Kevin
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shadowblade

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #117 on: May 26, 2019, 08:56:26 am »

Anyone had any further progress with this printer?

I'm still hoping that it lives up to HP's promises that it will outperform the Z3200. But I don't know if I'm just hoping against hope and should just bite the bullet and go Epson (in which case I needn't go through the hassle of printing myself, since almost every print shop uses it and I'd just need to find one using Ultrachrome HDX inks and the paper I want to print on, for greatest non-HP longevity).
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #118 on: May 26, 2019, 05:23:27 pm »

Anyone had any further progress with this printer?

I'm still hoping that it lives up to HP's promises that it will outperform the Z3200. But I don't know if I'm just hoping against hope and should just bite the bullet and go Epson (in which case I needn't go through the hassle of printing myself, since almost every print shop uses it and I'd just need to find one using Ultrachrome HDX inks and the paper I want to print on, for greatest non-HP longevity).

Yes.  I'm testing and reviewing a 24" Z9+ sent from Barcelona. 
A lot to be excited about!
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stevenfr

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #119 on: May 26, 2019, 05:30:29 pm »

I am interested to learn of your conclusions. I have Had three different HP print labs including Barcelona try and match my prints from a Canon IPF 8400.  None were successful. They had my prints to match.

I haven given up on the printer, and will hope Canon does a redo on their current  inkset.
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