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Author Topic: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer  (Read 19429 times)

MHMG

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #120 on: May 26, 2019, 07:45:43 pm »

I am interested to learn of your conclusions. I have Had three different HP print labs including Barcelona try and match my prints from a Canon IPF 8400.  None were successful. They had my prints to match.

I haven given up on the printer, and will hope Canon does a redo on their current  inkset.

HP technicians would have had to create a device link profile, or at the very least do a double conversion to try to match what you did on your IPF8400. Did you supply them with a master image file and also the ICC profile used to produce your iPF8400 print, as well as the same media your iPF8400 images were printed on? Only then might a truly accurate match be possible with any new printer versus another, but it's probably asking a lot of HP labs to go through all of this facsimile matching exercise just for the hope of selling one printer.

In any case, the more pertinent issue is whether the Z9 can produce pleasing fine art quality prints in their own right when starting from scratch with a nice original source image.  Hopefully, Mark L. will be able to answer that fundamental question all in good time. ;)

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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enduser

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #121 on: May 26, 2019, 08:10:37 pm »

Stevenfr, how were the HP prints not matching the Canon? Gamut, colors, sharpness, shadows, bronzing, metamerism or in an overall way somehow?
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stevenfr

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #122 on: May 26, 2019, 08:45:20 pm »

I gave HP master files. Varying images from a Phase One IQ3 100 camera and some images capturing using a Horseman film camera. Velvia 50 film. There is no issue with the source files. At the time there was nothing better than a Phase One IQ3 100 camera. The same media as what I used was used in their testing. I asked them to match my prints. Three different labs. The gamut was the issue. I supplied my profile. They created a profile using my paper. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta. They tried changing my images to match and they couldnít. They were surprised. Could it be a poor technician, could it be not spending enough time. Could it be because this printer has 9 inks and mine has 12. I have no idea.

I am sure the Z9+ can produce pleasing prints. From my limited experience, just not as well as my IPF8400 based on the experience I have had with three print tests. Maybe if I purchased the printer I could get a better match. I am not prepared to buy a printer on the assumption it might work for my needs. There has been no in depth review of this printer and its been almost a year. I donít feel its a big ask to have HP do test prints with my images and paper. They even suggested it.

Hopefully Mark L, If you can find that this printer can match the gamut of my current printer than I would be thrilled. I have been patient, this testing has been going on for a few months.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 08:56:01 pm by stevenfr »
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2019, 12:36:36 am »

Probably the only one who can match your Canon prints on the Z9+ is you. Subtlety is subjective and only by working with the printer and inks will you be able to meet your expectations. The Z9ís ink set is definitely not an issue. Iím finding that the Z9+ is quite competent, particularly with custom profiles.

Mark

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stevenfr

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2019, 01:31:07 am »

I agree Mark. Maybe I could of done better. The issue was the differences were not small. It was very easy to tell the difference. If there were reviews on the printer I might of made a purchase. Something to reassure me that a 9 ink printer would have the same gamut as my 12 ink printer. I like the longevity, ability to make profiles, no clogging issues, and for me service, which is available from a HP dealer not far from where I live. I live on a small island. The issue was the gamut.

I really question HP and their lack of promotion for this printer.

shadowblade

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2019, 08:11:26 am »

I agree Mark. Maybe I could of done better. The issue was the differences were not small. It was very easy to tell the difference. If there were reviews on the printer I might of made a purchase. Something to reassure me that a 9 ink printer would have the same gamut as my 12 ink printer. I like the longevity, ability to make profiles, no clogging issues, and for me service, which is available from a HP dealer not far from where I live. I live on a small island. The issue was the gamut.

I really question HP and their lack of promotion for this printer.

I can't say we know anything objective about the longevity yet. HP has a very high baseline to surpass.
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2019, 10:04:58 am »

So here's the thing guys. It's not wise to speculate that the Z9+ can't or won't be as good or better than the Z3200 when in reality, the Z3200 Vivera inks (which are now over something like 15 years old) are still besting both Canon and Epson in longevity and rival them in gamut, etc., and B+W is the most neutral of all the printers on the market. My point is, back then, HP pulled a rabbit out of a hat and created the best inks that are still going strong today.  There's nothing to say that they haven't done the same with the Z9+ Vivid inks applied with their new technology.  Test results take time and they are forthcoming - it's a matter of being patient. They will be coming soon.

I have no doubt the the Vivid inkset printed on the best substrates will test best in class for longevity.  And I can tell you they will unquestionably beat the other inks hands down and there will be evidence to back it up.

There will be differences between all the printers and inksets, some with more or less gamut than others.  If you are printing highly saturated colors, only those who are masters at printing and know how to get the most out of printers will be able to closely match other inkset prints that are difficult. Anyone just calibrating the paper then printing will come up short. Just like the Z3200, understanding and unlocking the potential with extended patch target profiles is the key.

It took a long time to understand the nuances of the Z3200.  The Z9+ prints incredibly well out of the box.  But to ask it to match prints takes mojo, and serious soft-proofing - something not everyone doing the work has.

My review will be coming out eventually, and as I said, there's a lot to be excited about.

I'll let you know as soon as I get it finished.

Mark

   
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jimcamel

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #128 on: May 27, 2019, 10:43:09 am »

I've had my 44"-Z9+ since late December but owing to travelling and some shortcomings in my site I am only just now starting to print more heavily and experience the printer with different papers.  I had a 7900, which eventually became clogged and I was unwilling to spend more money on it to try and un-clog it...so it's gone.  My main reason for purchasing the Z9 was to have an enjoyable, large-format printing experience without constantly fighting clogs after returning.

I ran my first 44x48" print last week, 44" Epson Cold Press Natural (CPN), and hung it and was fairly satisfied with it.

That being said, I am at the point now where I can compare some of the gamuts from Epson's ICC profiles to the ones generated on the printer and they are different.  I do have a stack of mounted 24" prints from the 7900 and I intend to re-print (some of) those files on the Z9, with only a profile change, on CPN and have a look.  But, as Mark says, that's a bit academic because the Z9 is what I have now, and will live with, so the difference is what it is.

I've been printing (all) Epson CPN, enhanced matte and Lustre 260...as I finish up some stocks and today I will roll canvas on it for the first time.

My early observations about the paper handling capability of the Z9 is that the Epson was much easier to load and handle - both roll and sheet.  Loading rolls and sheets on the Z9 takes longer, the spindle is very awkward and roll changes on the spindle, a "snap" on the 7900, are a chore on the Z9.  I have had real trouble loading a roll of CPN that has about 50% left to go.  The paper is stiff and the printer keeps rejecting the load or cancelling the print because it thinks it's tugging at the end of the roll.  More investigation on this today and likely a call to tech support because this shouldn't happen and while CPN is thick - it's nowhere near the printer's limit by spec for thickness.

Anybody in the Toronto area is welcome to contact me if they want to drop by and 'play'.
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deanwork

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #129 on: May 27, 2019, 11:25:40 am »


No where in that long list of tech achievements do they mention the words monochrome or black and white. The new Epsons using QTR and Canons with soon to be released TBW software will most likely put them to shame in that regard. Hp could offer an alternative inkset of Vivera grays in light dilutions that could be killer, and with a couple of cleaning cycles easily accessed, but they wonít.

John




I've had my 44"-Z9+ since late December but owing to travelling and some shortcomings in my site I am only just now starting to print more heavily and experience the printer with different papers.  I had a 7900, which eventually became clogged and I was unwilling to spend more money on it to try and un-clog it...so it's gone.  My main reason for purchasing the Z9 was to have an enjoyable, large-format printing experience without constantly fighting clogs after returning.

I ran my first 44x48" print last week, 44" Epson Cold Press Natural (CPN), and hung it and was fairly satisfied with it.

That being said, I am at the point now where I can compare some of the gamuts from Epson's ICC profiles to the ones generated on the printer and they are different.  I do have a stack of mounted 24" prints from the 7900 and I intend to re-print (some of) those files on the Z9, with only a profile change, on CPN and have a look.  But, as Mark says, that's a bit academic because the Z9 is what I have now, and will live with, so the difference is what it is.

I've been printing (all) Epson CPN, enhanced matte and Lustre 260...as I finish up some stocks and today I will roll canvas on it for the first time.

My early observations about the paper handling capability of the Z9 is that the Epson was much easier to load and handle - both roll and sheet.  Loading rolls and sheets on the Z9 takes longer, the spindle is very awkward and roll changes on the spindle, a "snap" on the 7900, are a chore on the Z9.  I have had real trouble loading a roll of CPN that has about 50% left to go.  The paper is stiff and the printer keeps rejecting the load or cancelling the print because it thinks it's tugging at the end of the roll.  More investigation on this today and likely a call to tech support because this shouldn't happen and while CPN is thick - it's nowhere near the printer's limit by spec for thickness.

Anybody in the Toronto area is welcome to contact me if they want to drop by and 'play'.
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2019, 02:13:30 pm »

No where in that long list of tech achievements do they mention the words monochrome or black and white. The new Epsons using QTR and Canons with soon to be released TBW software will most likely put them to shame in that regard. Hp could offer an alternative inkset of Vivera grays in light dilutions that could be killer, and with a couple of cleaning cycles easily accessed, but they wonít.

John

The Z9+ does a fabulous job printing Black and White in full color mode.  No QTR or Piezography needed.

It's amazing.

Mark
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deanwork

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #131 on: May 28, 2019, 09:33:45 am »

They need to be sending out these amazing print samples of neutral monochrome and warm monochrome with the reduced gray dilution output that has  no color shift under various light sources , if that is the case, because it would be a real technological innovation. One that until now has been unheard of in pigment imaging. If they have dot placement tech that can do that in the high values of a bw print ( and I believe it is possible ) and print fast, itís a game changer, maybe even revolutionary. Of course it would be nice if you could actually use their software to do what the spectro is capable of doing with that . Hopefully that will come along soon with the documentation to support it.



The Z9+ does a fabulous job printing Black and White in full color mode.  No QTR or Piezography needed.

It's amazing.

Mark
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 10:10:39 am by deanwork »
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mfrohman

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #132 on: May 28, 2019, 08:19:12 pm »

Thanks for the updates Mark and Jim - looking forward to hearing more about the Z9!
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samsterid

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2019, 05:51:13 pm »


OT: I always forget just how bad the UI is on DP Review until I come across a thread I'm interested in there. Finger's crossed that LL remains a viable alternative.

On DP Review threads, you can select Flat View on the upper right above first comment - so you can read the entire thread with one click.

Sam
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Christopher

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #134 on: July 01, 2019, 03:50:07 pm »

Still don't get why there is so few info about the new Z9s. Sometimes I think the print market is close to dead.
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Christopher Hauser
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #135 on: July 02, 2019, 11:29:21 am »

Still don't get why there is so few info about the new Z9s. Sometimes I think the print market is close to dead.

As discussed in the unboxing video thread:

Hi Mark -
I have theories, but itís hard to say for sure. Since this is a ground up new build for this printer HP is doing many firmware upgrades that are still addressing bugs, etc.
My main understanding is that HP is involved with major projects such as 3D printing on a major scale and they have several other printers - Dye Sub and Latex that are being developed and manufactured that may be taking precedence currently.

Frankly, the Z6 and Z9 printers have not been their priority, is my guess. They just havenít pushed it which is perplexing. My guess is that theyíve been too busy with other things. Theyíre beginning to move on it however. I think of it as a ďlate bloomerĒ. It really is an amazing printer - a lot to like.

Another thing, HP printers are sold throughout the world.  Itís difficult to say why it seems like it has not gone anywhere in our area. Other than what Iíve speculated above, I donít have an answer.
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neil snape

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2019, 11:59:07 am »

Still don't get why there is so few info about the new Z9s. Sometimes I think the print market is close to dead.

The printer market is very very reduced. The concept of the Z9+ is really cool. It is super fast, efficient, the most complete package of ways to send files, vertical trimmer option Gloss Enhancer, etc. Yet delivery is slow, and to a reduced market most will be for production studio and labs not individual image makers. That is not to say it won't be a good match to the individual photographer as I am certain it is. Perhaps their marketing is just making reasonable assumption for the quite dead independent photographers market. Epson and Canon have never let go, although like the camera market for MF or other speciality cameras one has to wonder how much room is left to make sustainable choices.
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: HP Designjet Z9 - HP has launched a new large format photo printer
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2019, 12:31:06 pm »

The printer market is very very reduced. The concept of the Z9+ is really cool. It is super fast, efficient, the most complete package of ways to send files, vertical trimmer option Gloss Enhancer, etc. Yet delivery is slow, and to a reduced market most will be for production studio and labs not individual image makers. That is not to say it won't be a good match to the individual photographer as I am certain it is. Perhaps their marketing is just making reasonable assumption for the quite dead independent photographers market. Epson and Canon have never let go, although like the camera market for MF or other speciality cameras one has to wonder how much room is left to make sustainable choices.

Given that HP is concentrating on 3D printers in a big way, Latex printers in a big way, and Dye-Sub printers also in a very big way, we're lucky they have continued to "service" our market as individual photographers and printmakers. It seems that the Z9+ has been a slow rollout, but I believe HP will gain momentum with this printer series.  There must be enough of a market segment and demographics for them to continue to pursue making a brand new, ground-up build which unquestionably supersedes the Z3200 series. With MF coming along, now more affordably, it could be that's where this printer will really shine.

Mark
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