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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 66152 times)

Dan Wells

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #720 on: August 26, 2018, 01:25:09 am »

Yes to all of Bernard's points...

I love the IBIS on my X-H1 (the ability to shoot 1/15 critically sharp without a tripod is wonderful). An "X-H1" closely approaching 50 MP (which seems to be the Z7, at least from the early reports)  would be extraordinary (although my guess is that the huge pixel count will mean at least slightly higher shutter speeds - the D8xx series are notorious for requiring surprisingly high shutter speeds, and that's not all shutter shock and mirror damping).

I own only a Series 0 Gitzo tripod, and I don't even carry that on long hikes - 3 lbs extra is just impossible over hundreds of miles. I do carry it on 5-10 mile hikes and short overnights. A big DSLR would mean a Series 2 or 3 tripod, which really wouldn't go overnight at all.

I haven't used WB preview heavily, but I use exposure preview ALL the time - what would an image look like silhouetted by 3 stops of underexposure?

True about the PF...

And the adapter itself actually helps with T/S lenses - it moves the knobs out farther from the body without serving as an extension tube that kills infinity focus.

And glad to hear D Fuller's battery life report...

That means it's about as power hungry (at least shooting video) as an X-H1, and also comparable to the A7rIII. An X-H1 goes about 45-55 minutes on a battery with a bit more than half the power, while the A7rIII is between an hour and a half and two hours on a battery a little bigger than the Nikon one. This will be a 600 shot camera in demanding outdoor use (as is the A7rIII)  - well more than that at an event where the shots per hour are greater and the camera is on less between images.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #721 on: August 26, 2018, 02:50:19 am »

I have never walker more than 65 miles in one go over 45 hours, but I did indeed only carry my D810 + 24-70 f2.8 VR for the first 20 miles and did indeed not even consider packing a tripod. ;) VR/IBIS is indeed expanding the envelope of usage tremendously.

But, when light is needed but a tripod an option, I have had good results with the D850 and H6D-100c with the RSS 1 series kept non extended, especially in e-shutter mode.

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #722 on: August 26, 2018, 03:51:31 am »


2.) Unlike any other mirrorless camera, the z6 and z7 take tilt-shift lenses without an unsupported third-party adapter. Yes, it's three pieces, but it's a camera by Nikon, attached to an adapter made for the camera by Nikon, attached to a lens by Nikon... That seems a lot less fishy than Sony camera to Metabones (who the heck is Metabones) adapter to Canon lens. Sure,  Sony or Fuji could release a first-party tilt-shift lens, but nobody has yet, and I haven't seen one on anybody's public roadmap.


I have been using my old Canon 24mm TS-E II lens with the metabones Mark IV T adapter, the one that it is flocked, and it worked quite reliable. Even if I sold the TS-E lens because I was using it in very few ocasiones, the combination worked very well.

I hardly doubt Sony or Fuji will release a Tilt-Shift lenses, but if those are critical for your job, maybe you should wait to see what Canon releases, they have after all the best series of Tilt-Shift lenses in the market right now.

davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #723 on: August 26, 2018, 03:55:05 am »

I suspect they'll move the other direction first - a Z5, designed as an entry-level full-frame mirrorless body, possibly (?probably) undercutting the A7III in both features and price, packaged with a 24-70/4 or 24/105/4 to entice new buyers into the Nikon system. The A7III is 'cheap' only by the standards of Sony full-frame cameras and lenses - there's plenty of room to undercut it with a product aimed at casual shooters, who are only ever going to have one or two lenses, but who want better image quality (or better low-light performance) than a crop body can provide.

I hardly doubt Nikon will release something lower than the Z6. That will be the entry level camera. With the pass of years it will get lower in price point. Like the A7 II is now the entry level camera for Sony...

shadowblade

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #724 on: August 26, 2018, 04:15:06 am »

I hardly doubt Nikon will release something lower than the Z6. That will be the entry level camera. With the pass of years it will get lower in price point. Like the A7 II is now the entry level camera for Sony...

Depends on the launch price of the Z6. I doubt Nikon can make it as cheap as the A7III - there's a large gap at the bottom end that needs filling.
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davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #725 on: August 26, 2018, 05:44:27 am »

Depends on the launch price of the Z6. I doubt Nikon can make it as cheap as the A7III - there's a large gap at the bottom end that needs filling.

Price for Z6 was already officially released, you can preorder it. It has more or less the same price as the A7 III - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1431706-REG/nikon_1595_z6_mirrorless_digital_camera.html

Then there are kits with 24-70 and adapter for F lenses.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #726 on: August 26, 2018, 07:44:12 am »

One thing that has not been mentioned is sensor cleaning.  I assume cleaning a mirrorless sensor is much easier than a DSLR.  Occasionally one does have to do a 'wet' clean of the sensor.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #727 on: August 26, 2018, 08:01:43 am »

Perhaps Nikon would have made a smarter decision if they'd introduced a digital take on their rangefinder S3...

I'm sure we all know they never will and in this case quite rightly so, but wouldn't it be refreshing in this homogenised, risk-free, camera market world, if someone, anyone, offered something, well...refreshing.
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eronald

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #728 on: August 26, 2018, 09:00:06 am »

I'm sure we all know they never will and in this case quite rightly so, but wouldn't it be refreshing in this homogenised, risk-free, camera market world, if someone, anyone, offered something, well...refreshing.

Sometimes camera companies make a product the managers like rather than the one marketing tells them to make - look at the Nikon DF. There is definitely a tolerance for crazy designs, and some of them even catch on.

Also, Nikon may like Sony and Panasonic/Leica dip their toes into the very high end luxury compact market. Japanese consumers love super-miniaturised high performance consumer electronics.

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #729 on: August 26, 2018, 09:08:54 am »

http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review

Yes, he is a Nikon ambassador, but some of the points, in particular the level of quality of the 35mm seems beyond interpretation.

The 100% crop in the corner at f1.8 is Otus like for those who had the chance to work with these.

Cheers,
Bernard

KLaban

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #730 on: August 26, 2018, 09:22:51 am »

Sometimes camera companies make a product the managers like rather than the one marketing tells them to make - look at the Nikon DF. There is definitely a tolerance for crazy designs, and some of them even catch on.

Also, Nikon may like Sony and Panasonic/Leica dip their toes into the very high end luxury compact market. Japanese consumers love super-miniaturised high performance consumer electronics.

Edmund

And wasn't that a disaster.

;-)
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davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #731 on: August 26, 2018, 09:54:20 am »

One thing that has not been mentioned is sensor cleaning.  I assume cleaning a mirrorless sensor is much easier than a DSLR.  Occasionally one does have to do a 'wet' clean of the sensor.

Having cleaned the sensor of my old Canons and my new Sony A7r II, the complication is the same:

- Canon 5D Mark II. Activate the sensor cleaning mode, by leaving the mirror up, clean the sensor (yes, being more depth, it is easier to touch with the stick one of the walls of the sensor chamber).

- Sony A7r II. Go to the menus, activate sensor cleaning, so it vibrates to remove dust, and then, without turning off the camera, clean it. Since in this way the IBIS is locked and you don't damage it by applying to much force...

I read somewhere that the Nikon Zs also have some point where you lock the sensor IBIS for cleaning.

In other point, not having a mirror in front of it and being the sensor on all the time, it attracts more dust, but, at the same time, since it does not have a mirror, I always have in my bag a blower, each two days or so I just blow the sensor... after nearly one year, it has been quite clean... only moments needed for wet cleaning it is when some stuck dust spot... small ones that you see at f16 or higher... (same with my A7 II that I have for nearly two years... but not very used lately...)

Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #732 on: August 26, 2018, 10:10:12 am »

2.) Unlike any other mirrorless camera, the z6 and z7 take tilt-shift lenses without an unsupported third-party adapter. Yes, it's three pieces, but it's a camera by Nikon, attached to an adapter made for the camera by Nikon, attached to a lens by Nikon... That seems a lot less fishy than Sony camera to Metabones (who the heck is Metabones) adapter to Canon lens. Sure,  Sony or Fuji could release a first-party tilt-shift lens, but nobody has yet, and I haven't seen one on anybody's public roadmap.

3.) I don't love the single card slot, but XQD cards are supposed to be a lot more reliable than SD... What if they've got the chances of a card failure down to 1 in 200,000 images? The shutter fails once in 200,000 images.

2. I don't find particularly valuable having all my system on the same brand as long as it works. Specially for MF lenses, mirrorless cameras can be considered universal bodies where almost any previous lens can be adapted. Thanks to Metabones I can use a Canon 24mm tilt shift lens which is better than Nikon's, on a Sony body which is better than Canon's. Moreover I can use a 12mm Laowa lens with Canon mount on a Sony body with the shiftable 1,4x converter to get a high performance 17mm TS lens just for the price of the converter.

3.
I understand your point on reliability and I agree with it, it's a matter of statistical MTBF and redundancy, but your comparison with shutter is very bad: when your shutter gets broken you loose your last shot, while a card failure can mean losing all the previously done shots. I think this is the reason for the complaints.

If XQD cards are much more reliable they make less useful having two slots. Spare wheels on cars are being replaced by emergency wheels (just suitable for some 100Km at low speed) and anti puncture kits because MTBF are nearing 10 years of car usage, nearly a whole car's lifetime.

Regards
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 10:33:05 am by Guillermo Luijk »
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Rob C

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #733 on: August 26, 2018, 11:49:44 am »

And wasn't that a disaster.

;-)


I'm not sure if it was or was not, but from my perspective, they screwed if up and, as bad, made it look cheap, even if it was anything but.

The main lure of film cameras was in their design and ergonomics. The pentaprism with interchangeable, split-image screen was the best thing to happen to reflex bodies. How they could have ignored the core value of the F and F2 to such an extent is remarkable. I guess it's the penalty of trying to be all things to all customers.

You're probably right regarding a rangefinder Nikon, but it would have been an interesting development.

Rob

Manoli

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #734 on: August 26, 2018, 12:05:42 pm »

2. I don't find particularly valuable having all my system on the same brand as long as it works. Specially for MF lenses, mirrorless cameras can be considered universal bodies where almost any previous lens can be adapted. Thanks to Metabones ..

This ^^^, again and again!
Add Novoflex into the mix and I doubt there's a mount that can't be usefully converted.
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eronald

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #735 on: August 26, 2018, 03:00:35 pm »

This ^^^, again and again!
Add Novoflex into the mix and I doubt there's a mount that can't be usefully converted.

Now if someone would just make the adapter to convert Bernard's Zeiss Otus to his iPhone X , Bernard would own the perfect camera!

Edmund
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hubell

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #736 on: August 26, 2018, 03:14:43 pm »

Whenever there is huge buildup to the release of a major new camera, with the internet fora in a tizzy with anticipation, what inevitably happens when the camera is actually released is that the internet fora again light up with negativity about some feature that is missing or some spec. This becomes THE DEALBREAKER for all those who were never really going to buy the camera in the first place. They just couldnít bear the idea that there would be a new camera out there that made them feel inadequate about what they already owned. So, they need THE DEALBREAKER. In the case of the Z7, we now have it. ONE CARD SLOT.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #737 on: August 26, 2018, 04:21:24 pm »

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ7.
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Manoli

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #738 on: August 26, 2018, 04:22:49 pm »

Now if someone would just make the adapter to convert Bernard's Zeiss Otus to his iPhone X , Bernard would own the perfect camera!

Edmund,

A teenage newbie turns to his best friend, and asks for advice in choosing his first camera. ďBest go to the guys in the knowĒ says the Ďbfí and points him to LuLa and this thread.
Newb reads the thread.
Newb thanks his Ďbfí for the best advice he could have ever given him.
Newb buys the iPhoneX.

On a more serious note, Bernard doesnít need an adapter for his Otus.
Just hold the Otus in one hand, the iPhone in the other , blow Siri a kiss and she does the rest.

M
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Telecaster

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #739 on: August 26, 2018, 04:56:25 pm »

One of my fav lenses on the Sonys is a late 1930s uncoated Zeiss 35/4.5 Orthometar. It's small, can autofocus via Techart adapter (and at a much closer minimum distance than when used on a Contax RF) and delivers a look unlike any modern lens. Since it uses an early retrofocus design it also plays well, unlike most wider rangefinder lenses, with the Sony's sensor stack.

Wonder how thick the Z's stack isÖ

-Dave-
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