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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 78728 times)

32BT

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #140 on: July 17, 2018, 08:32:33 am »

Yeah, the user interaction experience is going to be paramount, which will be in large part about the evf experience, since nikon already understood ergonomics. Evf experience is more intricate then i believe most of us realize; do you capture what you see in the evf which is trailing behind reality? And by how much? How much awareness do you have of reality? Etc...

Well, that and then there is also batterylife...

Batterylife could well be why Canon is going to lose this battle.
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Rob C

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #141 on: July 17, 2018, 08:56:57 am »

Oscar has a point, but I think battery life is only going to affect those who really, really want tiny. Back in the day, folks like me would buy motor-drives and added battery capacity devices that took maybe eight AA batteries a pop, and weight didn't worry us that much. It was normal.

But one man's normal is his normal, not Everyman's normal. I guess it comes down to how important to you you think your work actually is.

davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #142 on: July 18, 2018, 12:50:23 am »


Well, that and then there is also batterylife...

Batterylife could well be why Canon is going to lose this battle.

That was a problem for the series I and II of A7 Sony cameras... series III while keeping more or less the same weight, has a bigger battery with longer battery live... now all the people seems happy with its longevity.

I expect Nikon or Canon were paying attention to it and their offering does not have the very poor battery life the first Sony cameras did...



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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #143 on: July 18, 2018, 01:26:14 am »

Hi,

I don't think it is just about the battery. The A7rII could probably take like 200 pictures on a charge, on the A7rII folks can take 1500 images on a charge.

The main advantage with the A7rIII is probably a new "front side LSI" that handles much of the image processing more efficient than the 'Bionz' processor.

Best regards
Erik

That was a problem for the series I and II of A7 Sony cameras... series III while keeping more or less the same weight, has a bigger battery with longer battery live... now all the people seems happy with its longevity.

I expect Nikon or Canon were paying attention to it and their offering does not have the very poor battery life the first Sony cameras did...



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davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #144 on: July 18, 2018, 01:49:01 am »

Hi,

I don't think it is just about the battery. The A7rII could probably take like 200 pictures on a charge, on the A7rII folks can take 1500 images on a charge.

The main advantage with the A7rIII is probably a new "front side LSI" that handles much of the image processing more efficient than the 'Bionz' processor.

Best regards
Erik

Yes, it is also probably much more energy optimize...


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32BT

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #145 on: July 18, 2018, 02:22:23 am »


I expect Nikon or Canon were paying attention to it and their offering does not have the very poor battery life the first Sony cameras did...


Yes, let's hope so, though Canon didn't seem to have solved that problem so far.
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32BT

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #146 on: July 18, 2018, 03:00:58 am »


I don't think it is just about the battery. The A7rII could probably take like 200 pictures on a charge, on the A7rII folks can take 1500 images on a charge.


Cipa numbers just show a doubling, but the sleepmode and off-mode strategy may have been improved as well. Obviously it's not all about batterysize alone considering that focusbehavior and IS in body and lenses contribute as well.

1500 shots i take with a grain of salt unless you have a reliable source for it.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #147 on: July 18, 2018, 03:08:36 am »

1500 images in a single battery with the A7rII?  I donít thank no I have ever seen that. Lots of stuff affects battery life of course but I think 1500 is too high.

Much gets made of battery life but to me itís a non issue. Takes a second to change a battery and the things are tiny. I stick a handful in my pocket and shoot all day. In fact I held off changing to the A7RIII because I like using the same batteries on the FF and APSC cameras.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 03:22:47 am by Martin Kristiansen »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #148 on: July 18, 2018, 03:13:48 am »

Hi,

Regarding 1500 frames was reported on the A9. But that was probably much shooting at 20 FPS with E-shutter.

Cipa numbers were much lower on that camera, it obviously depends on what you shoot.

My point is that most of the battery life may come from more efficient camera circuitry as folks report much improved battery life, much more than twice.

I have seen a lot statements on this, but it is hearsay mostly.

Best regards
Erik

Cipa numbers just show a doubling, but the sleepmode and off-mode strategy may have been improved as well. Obviously it's not all about batterysize alone considering that focusbehavior and IS in body and lenses contribute as well.

1500 shots i take with a grain of salt unless you have a reliable source for it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #149 on: July 18, 2018, 03:43:09 am »

I fully expect Nikon and Canon to release cameras that will better the a7rIII on most fronts, including battery life.

They fully understand that Sony is the leader with a huge lense line-up and that they must do better to attract customers. At least Nikon with their choice of a new mount can only rely on superior performance. If Canon goes the route of a mirrorless 5DIV then they may be hoping that existing lenses may keep their existing customers on board even if performance is somewhat inferior on some fronts. The usual marketing and sales tactics will probably compensate.

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #150 on: July 18, 2018, 06:43:30 am »

I fully expect Nikon and Canon to release cameras that will better the a7rIII on most fronts, including battery life.

They fully understand that Sony is the leader with a huge lense line-up and that they must do better to attract customers. At least Nikon with their choice of a new mount can only rely on superior performance. If Canon goes the route of a mirrorless 5DIV then they may be hoping that existing lenses may keep their existing customers on board even if performance is somewhat inferior on some fronts. The usual marketing and sales tactics will probably compensate.

Cheers,
Bernard


Looking at my magic ball here... that it is usually more wrong than right... I donít really expect that Canon or Nikon to be better in most fronts... what they really need it is to demonstrate that they are really investing into pushing those cameras... like showing a good lens roadmap... like Fuji is doing...

Although they have an advantage in native lenses... designs for Sony FE from voigtlander, Laowa, tokina manual lenses, Samyang manual lenses and Zeiss Loxia line...

When third party manufacturers reverse engineer the electrical part of the mount, probably you will see Tokina, Tamron, Samyang and Sigma lenses (highly doubt Batis line of Zeiss is adapted... Zeiss never released AF lenses for mounts they could not get the specs from the manufacturer... although rumors say the AF lenses are a Tamron design, so maybe Tamron release them under their brand without Zeiss coatings).

Also, the perspective has changed... it is not that Canon and Nikon need to demonstrate that mirrorless are an interesting option for the future like 5 years ago... Canon and Nikon users will invest in the system if it is good... it does not need to be the best... that can come latter...



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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #151 on: July 18, 2018, 07:50:56 am »

As far as I am concerned I see zero value in investing in a Nikon mirrorless camera with a new mount if it isnít a better camera than the a7rIII.

Why not go the Sony route?

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 09:22:15 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Rado

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #152 on: July 18, 2018, 10:35:40 am »

I predict Canon will release a fairly conservative offering that on the paper will not beat Sony's specs, nevertheless in reality will perform solidly and without the stupid gotchas of Sony systems ("which combination of settings throws me into 12bit RAW now?"). I can use my Canon lenses on a Sony (and I do) but I'm waiting for a mirrorless camera body that I actually enjoy using.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #153 on: July 19, 2018, 09:40:14 am »

As far as I am concerned I see zero value in investing in a Nikon mirrorless camera with a new mount if it isnít a better camera than the a7rIII.

Why not go the Sony route?

Cheers,
Bernard

Iím curious Bernard. Would you sell your 850to go mirrorless? I donít think I would. I went mirrorless because my Canon was coming to the end of its life and the lenses also needed to be replaced. I looked around and figured the Sony would be a change and a bit of fun, chip was good enough for my needs and learning something new tends to blow out the cobwebs.

Just wondering. I like mirrorless but itís an incremental thing I think. I wouldnít abandone a new 850 for a new mirrorless system. I wouldnít get out of the 850 to change to Sony if that was my position.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #154 on: July 19, 2018, 04:51:34 pm »

Right now I believe that the D850 is still superior to the a7rIII. But it seems clear that the mirrorless technology is maturing quickly and some of the advantages such as better eye AF, and more compact designs, more design freedom for lenses are very powerful, even if the current gen isnít quite there yet.

So I would first add a mirrorless body and start to build a lens portfolio, probably starting with a 35mm as my first usage would be street photography.

I have considering a Leica M10 many times and gave up on the idea every time because of focus accuracy concerns. The mirrorless bodyís first mission will be a Leica alternative.

Cheers,
Bernard

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #155 on: July 19, 2018, 06:57:57 pm »

Iím curious Bernard. Would you sell your 850to go mirrorless? I donít think I would. I went mirrorless because my Canon was coming to the end of its life and the lenses also needed to be replaced. I looked around and figured the Sony would be a change and a bit of fun, chip was good enough for my needs and learning something new tends to blow out the cobwebs.

Just wondering. I like mirrorless but itís an incremental thing I think. I wouldnít abandone a new 850 for a new mirrorless system. I wouldnít get out of the 850 to change to Sony if that was my position.

I went mirror less for two reasons:

1.  I was using the 5d2 and Canon just came out with a 5d3 which did not improve the archaic sensor one bit. I looked around at new sensors and Sony had something more capable in the A7R at the time.

2.  I got tired lugging around bulky heavy equipment when I travelled...and as I was about to retire, travel played prominently in my future. I wanted something more compact and lighter.

Sony mirror less fit the bill very nicely. It basically reduced my bulk / weight by almost 1/2 and improved on overall image quality...a real win-win for me. Never really looked back at DSLR's as they are still large and heavy and the image quality might just be on par with the latest Sony sensors.

As far as the D850...if you like to lug that weight around, I see no reason to move away from it. Image quality is on par to the Sony mirror less...but you would not catch me carrying that monster around my wrist for 3 weeks through the heat, humidity and humanity if SEA.
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bassman51

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #156 on: July 19, 2018, 07:29:32 pm »

1500 shots with the e-shutter and even low speed continuous drive should be easy.  Battery life for these cameras depends more on the ďOnĒ time, where the EVP and/or LCD are drawing power, than on the number of images. I get 2-3 hours of On time on my EM1.2, and could take thousands of images in that time.  I usually turn the camera off between shots. 

As for the menus: after spending years shooting with the D80/D7009, I failed to be able to setup my friendís D3100 in a reasonable time.  Menu are all complex, and a different menu is indecipherable to me. Yet I now have my E-M1.2 setup to almost never need the menus at all.  Itís a pleasure. And it drove me crazy for months.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #157 on: July 20, 2018, 10:20:09 am »

Hi Bernard,

I think your analysis is OK.

Best regards
Erik



Right now I believe that the D850 is still superior to the a7rIII. But it seems clear that the mirrorless technology is maturing quickly and some of the advantages such as better eye AF, and more compact designs, more design freedom for lenses are very powerful, even if the current gen isnít quite there yet.

So I would first add a mirrorless body and start to build a lens portfolio, probably starting with a 35mm as my first usage would be street photography.

I have considering a Leica M10 many times and gave up on the idea every time because of focus accuracy concerns. The mirrorless bodyís first mission will be a Leica alternative.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Alex Waugh

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #158 on: July 20, 2018, 10:08:57 pm »

If this camera is being announced on Monday, I'm extremely impressed with the lack of leaked pictures. Apple levels of information security.

My biggest question is whether a vertical grip will be available, as i'm sure Canon and Nikon will both produce a far more ergonomic camera than Sony has managed to do. I'll happily take a hit in sensor performance for a well integrated grip.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #159 on: July 21, 2018, 01:25:59 am »

If this camera is being announced on Monday, I'm extremely impressed with the lack of leaked pictures. Apple levels of information security.

My biggest question is whether a vertical grip will be available, as i'm sure Canon and Nikon will both produce a far more ergonomic camera than Sony has managed to do. I'll happily take a hit in sensor performance for a well integrated grip.

I donít believe in July 23rd, but we will see.

Cheers,
Bernard
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