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Author Topic: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean  (Read 19739 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #120 on: April 27, 2018, 11:57:59 am »

... "Instead of going after the plastic, we let the plastic come to us, saving time, energy, and cost", those are the words of Boyan Slat, a Dutch student ...

Kudos to Boyan.

There is nothing controversial about this issue. It is trash. Trash needs to be collected and properly disposed or destroyed.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #121 on: April 27, 2018, 12:24:46 pm »

Not elaborate, prove. Both. Prove that it was the "Left" that created the plastic waste problem, as you stated.

I thought it is obvious. In any case... With women leaving the kitchen and entering the workforce in increasing numbers, less time they have for doing the traditional thing (e.g., cooking and cleaning) the traditional way (i.e., washing and reusing). Enter disposable items. As they continue to be more engaged at work, they are then pressured (by the Left) to rise through the ranks, assume even higher management and executive positions, enter areas they've never worked (or fought) before. The Left's drive for "diversity" and "equality" means more and more women in areas they were not present before, at all levels. As anyone who worked in corporate America knows, rising through management ranks means longer and longer hours at work. And less and less at home. Careers over family. Having a family at a later age. Leading a busy single life longer and longer. Subsiding on TV dinners (plastic trays), take-out food, and doggy-bag leftovers, all using disposable items. Many Millennial girls I know never learned to cook and are proud of it. Many older ones decided to follow the example and show their "liberation" by refusing to cook or clean. Enter more disposables.

digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #122 on: April 27, 2018, 12:35:06 pm »

I thought it is obvious. In any case... With women leaving the kitchen and entering the workforce in increasing numbers, less time they have for doing the traditional thing (e.g., cooking and cleaning) the traditional way (i.e., washing and reusing). Enter disposable items. As they continue to be more engaged at work, they are then pressured (by the Left) to rise through the ranks, assume even higher management and executive positions, enter areas they've never worked (or fought) before. The Left's drive for "diversity" and "equality" means more and more women in areas they were not present before, at all levels. As anyone who worked in corporate America knows, rising through management ranks means longer and longer hours at work. And less and less at home. Careers over family. Having a family at a later age. Leading a busy single life longer and longer. Subsiding on TV dinners (plastic trays), take-out food, and doggy-bag leftovers, all using disposable items. Many Millennial girls I know never learned to cook and are proud of it. Many older ones decided to follow the example and show their "liberation" by refusing to cook or clean. Enter more disposables.
Absurd and baseless misogyny/chauvinism! Men can and do conduct cooking/cleaning which of course has nothing to do with the left, right, or otherwise.
Here we see text from someone whe believes women should be barefoot and pregnant?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 12:39:07 pm by andrewrodney »
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KLaban

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #123 on: April 27, 2018, 01:07:26 pm »

I thought it is obvious. In any case... With women leaving the kitchen and entering the workforce in increasing numbers, less time they have for doing the traditional thing (e.g., cooking and cleaning) the traditional way (i.e., washing and reusing). Enter disposable items. As they continue to be more engaged at work, they are then pressured (by the Left) to rise through the ranks, assume even higher management and executive positions, enter areas they've never worked (or fought) before. The Left's drive for "diversity" and "equality" means more and more women in areas they were not present before, at all levels. As anyone who worked in corporate America knows, rising through management ranks means longer and longer hours at work. And less and less at home. Careers over family. Having a family at a later age. Leading a busy single life longer and longer. Subsiding on TV dinners (plastic trays), take-out food, and doggy-bag leftovers, all using disposable items. Many Millennial girls I know never learned to cook and are proud of it. Many older ones decided to follow the example and show their "liberation" by refusing to cook or clean. Enter more disposables.

Jesus wept, is it any wonder there are few women here on LuLa?

JoeKitchen

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #124 on: April 27, 2018, 01:09:00 pm »

Absurd and baseless misogyny/chauvinism! Men can and do conduct cooking/cleaning which of course has nothing to do with the left, right, or otherwise.
Here we see text from someone whe believes women should be barefoot and pregnant?

I did not see misogyny anywhere in Slobo's post.  Perhaps in a prior one that I did not read. 

Anyway, whether you like it or not, in the family unit of the past, it was the women who did the house work.  (Now I do not subscribe to the idea that women should stay home and not work; I would welcome anyone into the workforce.) 

More women entering the workforce while at the some time the amount of men in it is not decreasing is taking hours away from house chores.  I do not think nor subscribe to the idea of reverting back.  However the net effect is less hours spent at home. 

A solution to this may be disposable products, which Slobo pointed out.  I edited this because we would need a better study then just conjecture here to actually say this is the case. 

Unfortunately at the same time, home ec (along with shop and tech classes) are being taken away from high schools, creating many other problems.  One such problem is that people are eating too much processed food due a lack of cooking skills.  It really does not take that much time to cook a simple dinner once you learn how to cook.  (I grew up in restaurants, so perhaps I have an advantage, but still, a salad is rather simple to make.) 

People really need to learn to separate fact and cause and effect situations, from prejudice.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 01:28:23 pm by JoeKitchen »
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amolitor

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #125 on: April 27, 2018, 01:21:32 pm »

It happens that I  am a man who cooks, cleans, and cares for the children in  essentially the same way the stereotypical 1950s housewife did, while my wife works. By good luck and good planning, we're able to make this work out. It is not necessary for both of us to work outside the home.

An alternate take from Mr. Blagojevic's is that capitalism run rampant has forced the working class into a  situation in which both partners in the family must work to make ends meet, leading to the aforementioned rise is disposables. I find the whole thing somewhat tenuous at best, but if you insist on "less cooking and housekeeping" is the cause of plastic in the ocean, then the cause of the cause can be attributed somewhat better to insufficiently fettered capitalism than it can be some vague leftist agenda.

That wages of the working class have been essentially flat for decades is undisputed. That Capitalists are doing increasingly better is undisputed. That the wage gap has been expanding for decades and continues to do so is undisputed. It is, from  these undisputed facts, a very very small step to "insufficiently fettered Capitalism is the major cause the both-parents-work situation"

Of course the leftist agenda did include the idea of choices in work, but as usual the Capitalists co-opted this and turned it in to  "No, no, it's not that we would prefer that We Get the Money and You Do Not, it's OPPORTUNITY!" but that is an obvious sham.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #126 on: April 27, 2018, 01:27:21 pm »

It happens that I  am a man who cooks, cleans, and cares for the children in  essentially the same way the stereotypical 1950s housewife did, while my wife works. By good luck and good planning, we're able to make this work out. It is not necessary for both of us to work outside the home.

An alternate take from Mr. Blagojevic's is that capitalism run rampant has forced the working class into a  situation in which both partners in the family must work to make ends meet, leading to the aforementioned rise is disposables. I find the whole thing somewhat tenuous at best, but if you insist on "less cooking and housekeeping" is the cause of plastic in the ocean, then the cause of the cause can be attributed somewhat better to insufficiently fettered capitalism than it can be some vague leftist agenda.

That wages of the working class have been essentially flat for decades is undisputed. That Capitalists are doing increasingly better is undisputed. That the wage gap has been expanding for decades and continues to do so is undisputed. It is, from  these undisputed facts, a very very small step to "insufficiently fettered Capitalism is the major cause the both-parents-work situation"

Of course the leftist agenda did include the idea of choices in work, but as usual the Capitalists co-opted this and turned it in to  "No, no, it's not that we would prefer that We Get the Money and You Do Not, it's OPPORTUNITY!" but that is an obvious sham.

I must ask, who are your quoting in this post? 
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amolitor

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #127 on: April 27, 2018, 01:34:07 pm »

I am not quoting anybody, those quotations should be read as belonging to an unspecified, and notional, speaker.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #128 on: April 27, 2018, 01:59:28 pm »

Absurd and baseless misogyny/chauvinism! ...

My post was supposed to be thought-provoking. Your reaction, as expected, had nothing to do with thinking. Knee-jerk non-sequiturs, however...

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #129 on: April 27, 2018, 02:08:32 pm »

... An alternate take from Mr. Blagojevic's is that capitalism run rampant has forced the working class into a  situation in which both partners in the family must work to make ends meet, leading to the aforementioned rise in disposables...

Mr. Molitor (are we now on the last-name basis?),

What I wrote did not mention nor dispute that. And I happen to agree (up to a point).

However, I am referring specifically to the current leftist agenda that piggybacks on the capitalist one: once forced into work, the Left is pushing women further into time-consuming careers, through "diversity" and "equality" campaigns. And I am not getting into whether that is good or bad, correct or not, progressive or not, feminist or not, I am simply pointing out the consequence for the rise in disposables.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 02:27:22 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #130 on: April 27, 2018, 03:17:05 pm »

Mr. Molitor (are we now on the last-name basis?),

What I wrote did not mention nor dispute that. And I happen to agree (up to a point).

However, I am referring specifically to the current leftist agenda that piggybacks on the capitalist one: once forced into work, the Left is pushing women further into time-consuming careers, through "diversity" and "equality" campaigns. And I am not getting into whether that is good or bad, correct or not, progressive or not, feminist or not, I am simply pointing out the consequence for the rise in disposables.

The current leftist agenda in the capitalist world is one thing, but as I recollect growing up in the former eastern block, there it all started in the fifties. The lefties communists were the ones forcing also the women to work so the family could earn enough money to survive. And we didn't have the luxury of stir sticks, straws, or prepared TV dinners. Women went to work, cooked, took care of kids, sowed their own dresses (and clothes for the kids), and if they were lucky to live in a house, took care also of the pig and chickens, and the vegetable garden. They were the real super women.
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digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #131 on: April 27, 2018, 03:23:21 pm »

My post was supposed to be thought-provoking.
Unfortunately it was made with little thought. Just nonsense.
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Rand47

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #132 on: April 27, 2018, 07:22:25 pm »



Hi,

I'd be curious to know the source of this photo.  Being somewhat familiar with bird digestive systems, I smell a rat here.

I'm not a denier, by the way... just interested in rationality.

Rand
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Rand47

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #133 on: April 27, 2018, 07:25:24 pm »

In my more morose moods, I can envision a civilization thousands (if not millions) of years hence, drilling for the oil that these deposited plastics created.  Seems somewhat logical since that's where our plastics come from today.

Rand
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Rand47

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #134 on: April 27, 2018, 07:38:25 pm »

Here's another "long range" thought.  If random mutation and natural selection (unguided) is the process of living organisms; given a micro-second or two of evolutionary time won't the system adapt?  Perhaps not with homo sapiens in it, but won't life adapt?  I'm guessing the toxicity of the Yucatan meteor strike was an acute, rather than chronic, shift of this sort. Some species waned, some waxed.  But chronic shifts seem more easily dealt with than acute onset events.   Here's an interesting quote from Richard Dawkins that would seem to bear on this kind of thinking:

Quote
“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
― Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life

Now, I believe we should be good stewards of our home, and should look for the long range and unanticipated impacts of the things we do and the effects they may have on the ecosystem of our epoch.  But if Dawkins is right, it matters not a bit - unless we hold homo sapiens in some higher regard that we perhaps ought to do.

Rand
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digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #135 on: April 27, 2018, 07:41:39 pm »

Hi,

I'd be curious to know the source of this photo.  Being somewhat familiar with bird digestive systems, I smell a rat here.

I'm not a denier, by the way... just interested in rationality.

Rand
This is what I found:
http://www.chrisjordan.com/gallery/midway/#CF000313%2018x24
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Peter McLennan

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #137 on: April 27, 2018, 08:43:22 pm »

Excellent research, boys.  I had no idea where that image came from.  Now I do.  Thank you.
The diversity of similar images indicates that no artificial arrangement of the plastics was done.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 08:56:05 pm by Peter McLennan »
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Two23

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #138 on: April 27, 2018, 08:45:05 pm »




It appears to me that either wave action caused bits of plastic to lodge in the bird carcass as they washed back and forth, or someone carefully placed at least some if it there.  As someone with a medical science degree, I highly doubt the bird swallowed all that plastic and died from it.


Kent in SD
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #139 on: April 27, 2018, 08:54:22 pm »

The idea that it was "The Left" who forced women into the workforce to enhance a political stance of gender equality is beyond lame.  Some women I'm sure entered the workforce by choice, perhaps intending pursuit of a higher calling than washing diapers and making mac and cheese for supper.

The idea that it was "The Right" (ie capitalism) that forced women into the workforce in order to compensate for an age of ever-decreasing real wages (caused by greedy rightist capitalists) could quite easily be raised in contradiction.

But that might be lame, too.

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