Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Etiquette and Political Discussions  (Read 9572 times)

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Etiquette and Political Discussions
« on: March 10, 2018, 03:18:26 pm »

Firstly, Jeremy, I see that no "reply" function is enabled for your post. I don't see why not. Especially when I can reply like I am now.

I'm not going to make a big deal of this, but I don't see why this website needs a piece of the Forum opening up for discussing politics. There are enough other places on the Internet to do that and this is a photography website. In the current political environment, especially in the USA, I see grief coming to this decision because of the risks. I think it is completely pointless. 
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3686
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 03:51:58 pm »

I agree with Mark, and suspect what we'll see isn't reasonable discussion amongst rational people but (more) ugliness. An unwise move IMO.

-Dave-
Logged

amolitor

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 607
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2018, 04:27:25 pm »

Everybody thinks it's their position that is reasonable and sensible, and that it's everyone else who is an obnoxious idiot. An astonishingly high percentage of people feel that horrible behavior is justifiable if a) I am right (which I always am) and b) the other guy is wrong, and just being offensive and obstructionist (which he always is).

The only way to win is not to play. I vote for not playing.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2018, 05:41:52 pm »

Reply in that post shows up for me...,
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

drralph

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 197
    • Ralph's Instagram
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2018, 06:20:53 pm »

One of the things that I most value about the LuLa community is the uncommon level of civility I have found in the forum.  I never had interest in the "Coffee Corner," and I guess I am blessed to have been spared viewing or becoming ensnared in any of it.  I too don't see the point of encouraging political discussion on a site that is narrowly focused on photography.  It seems a high-risk experiment that could go horribly wrong.  It was not long ago that one of our most active members, who has been extremely generous in sharing his expertise, was lost to the forum for nearly a year because of rude treatment by another participant.  This forum is a resource which has taken many years to develop into what it is today.  The dynamic may be more fragile than one would hope.  I think those who seek conflict and enjoy provocative expression of political opinion should go elsewhere to do so.

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8961
    • site
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2018, 07:27:15 pm »

Firstly, Jeremy, I see that no "reply" function is enabled for your post. I don't see why not. Especially when I can reply like I am now.

Mark, I posted the same message in About this site and in the Coffee Corner. That in the CC is available for responses.

I'm not going to make a big deal of this, but I don't see why this website needs a piece of the Forum opening up for discussing politics. There are enough other places on the Internet to do that and this is a photography website. In the current political environment, especially in the USA, I see grief coming to this decision because of the risks. I think it is completely pointless.

You may be right. We shall see. In the meantime, those who don't wish to participate need neither read those threads nor post in them.

Jeremy
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2018, 11:56:10 pm »


You may be right. We shall see. In the meantime, those who don't wish to participate need neither read those threads nor post in them.

Jeremy

That's true but it's not a personal issue - the main risk to the site is reputational. The site is very highly regarded for what it knows how to do well within its field of expertise. I think it is safer to leave it at that.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Two23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 827
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2018, 01:15:07 am »

I agree with Mark, and suspect what we'll see isn't reasonable discussion amongst rational people but (more) ugliness. An unwise move IMO.

-Dave-


I too agree with Mark.  Any more, political "discussions" come down to parroting propaganda.


Kent in SD
Logged
Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris,
miserere nobis.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2018, 05:51:00 am »

Mark, I posted the same message in About this site and in the Coffee Corner. That in the CC is available for responses.

You may be right. We shall see. In the meantime, those who don't wish to participate need neither read those threads nor post in them.

Jeremy

Absolutely right, and I see the alternative as being no more civilized than the bulk burning of books.

Others have made points as follows:

1.  a wonderful photographer we all admire felt offended, and took a long sabbatical. If we are thinking of the same contributor, he does not read the CC, and the offence was committed in another, supposedly hi-end section of this site;

2.  spill-over, or collateral damage: come on, of which sensitive souls do we speak? Anyone drifting here by accident, finding the wealth of photographic information it contains, is not about to do a van Gogh for a section of the site that has little to offer him, should he be so shrinking a violet. For one, I find it offensive that somebody would imagine me to be so easily upset. And if I were, I'd simply ignore the sections I don't enjoy. For the most part, that was my attitude with the entire Trump saga. It did not at all prevent me enjoying other parts of the CC. That the politically spiced bits are ever going to be manned by acolytes of one side or another is obvious, and thus the pointlessness of the entire threads. But hey, once you realise that... let the others have their jollies. As Two23 wrote, it comes down to political parroting.

This is not a church nor is it a temple of any denomination. Should one seek such an environment, then good luck: few of them offer what LuLa offers. Has it not struck anyone yet that an overdose of saccharine makes one sick? It's exactly the same problem as continued glorification and elevation of everything new to the top of the most-wanted lists. In the end, nobody believes anybody anymore since objectvity has died the death to commercial expediency.

Perhaps the most interesting feature of LuLa, photographic information aside, is to be found in the regular (active) members of the site. Those who read and contribute little, well, contribute little. Period. They remain devoid of identity. If some seek to silence those active participants, then perhaps they should explain exactly why, and then tell us what they, the complainants, are going to offer in place of the lost people. Good intentions mean squat: your participation has to measured in terms of your participation. Good intentions don't create anything to read. Nothing to read means nothing to read, so why even visit?
 

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2018, 07:59:02 am »

Make it easy on yourself..... Ban All Political Discussions!!  Other wise where do you draw the line?  Do you, then, draw the political boundaries?  Are you left or right?  You see, its easy if there are no political discussions.  There are lots of other places for that.  But then..... what would some do with themselves?

Victor
Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2296
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2018, 08:23:51 am »

... the main risk to the site is reputational. The site is very highly regarded for what it knows how to do well within its field of expertise. I think it is safer to leave it at that.

What is the site's field of expertise ?

Edit:
*deleted*
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 09:16:04 am by Manoli »
Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2296
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2018, 08:54:19 am »

Jeremy,

Welcome or congratulations - Global Moderator ?
Sad to see the passing of your 'handle' - was rather fond of 'kikasahi' .

M
Logged

Dave Rosser

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
    • My Website
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2018, 09:03:50 am »

Firstly, Jeremy, I see that no "reply" function is enabled for your post. I don't see why not. Especially when I can reply like I am now.

I'm not going to make a big deal of this, but I don't see why this website needs a piece of the Forum opening up for discussing politics. There are enough other places on the Internet to do that and this is a photography website. In the current political environment, especially in the USA, I see grief coming to this decision because of the risks. I think it is completely pointless.
+1
Dave
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 09:29:23 am »

Fortunately, LuLa attracts viewers from many countries other than the good ol' US of A. For starters, isn't it of Canadian provenance?

Why do some people think it noble to close down sections which do not interest them? If anything, not only does it smack of misplaced ego, but of a sense of equally misplaced moral superiority.

Unlike with death and taxes, CC is avoidable if it proves too demanding of some part of one's spirit. Ever think about the old one of living and letting live?

On the other hand, it is a bit amusing to discover all these whited sepulchres.

Rob

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 09:34:31 am »

And your point is???  Are you saying that Political discussions have a place at LL?

Victor
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2018, 09:57:45 am »

And your point is???  Are you saying that Political discussions have a place at LL?

Victor


My point is simply this: CC has been established as a zone within LuLa for discussion of matters beyond photography.

So clearly, the answer is yes, there is room for ALL sorts of topics within LuLa, as long as the non-snap ones are in their separate section.

Clear?

Were you to remove CC, it would not take a long time for people, especially those who post regularly and have developed friendships within LuLa, to come to the inevitable realisation that photography is simply not enough. The volume of good photography, anywhere outwith leading photographers' websites, is staggeringly low. It doesn't take much research to locate those websites, and once found, why would those thirsty for good imagery feel compelled to come here? As in the song, there has to be more to love than this.

Rob

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2018, 10:30:06 am »

What is the site's field of expertise ?

Edit:
*deleted*


Reminds me of Elvis: Don't Be Cruel...

;-)

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2018, 10:31:30 am »


Were you to remove CC, it would not take a long time for people, especially those who post regularly and have developed friendships within LuLa, to come to the inevitable realisation that photography is simply not enough. The volume of good photography, anywhere outwith leading photographers' websites, is staggeringly low. It doesn't take much research to locate those websites, and once found, why would those thirsty for good imagery feel compelled to come here? As in the song, there has to be more to love than this.

Rob

CC has its place and the discussions within it are fine...... except for political discussions.  THAT is the devil's playground and no matter what will lead to moderation and ultimately locked threads.  Clear??

There is no place for political discussions at LL from my perspective.......

Victor
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2018, 10:50:11 am »

CC has its place and the discussions within it are fine...... except for political discussions. 1.  THAT is the devil's playground and no matter what will lead to moderation and ultimately locked threads. Clear??

2.  There is no place for political discussions at LL from my perspective.......

Victor

1.  Why would that worry or concern you if you don't take part, and if your thread, or one to which you have posted opinion, has not been locked?

2.  Exactly; that's just one perspective, and from a point of view that doesn't want to play. Other folks' mileages differ, as the length of some threads there has proved. You desire to deny those folks their fun?

Rob

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2018, 10:56:51 am »


My point is simply this: CC has been established as a zone within LuLa for discussion of matters beyond photography.

So clearly, the answer is yes, there is room for ALL sorts of topics within LuLa, as long as the non-snap ones are in their separate section.

Clear?

Were you to remove CC, it would not take a long time for people, especially those who post regularly and have developed friendships within LuLa, to come to the inevitable realisation that photography is simply not enough. The volume of good photography, anywhere outwith leading photographers' websites, is staggeringly low. It doesn't take much research to locate those websites, and once found, why would those thirsty for good imagery feel compelled to come here? As in the song, there has to be more to love than this.

Rob

No it's not clear.

Do you understand the full meaning of reputational risk? Has it occurred to you that the perspective from which one needs to approach discussion on the internet is not necessarily personal but systemic? Once something is published it's a sitting duck, and it can't necessarily be ring-fenced. There are all kinds of people out there whose noses are easily put out of joint, especially nowadays when tolerance and civility are at a low ebb. Develop even the inkling of a reputation that this site is a place where political views they don't like is tolerated and you don't know what skills they have to deploy what kind of vengeance against us; it may not be contained to the Coffee Corner; coffee can spill. For me personally I could care less in a personal sense because I can't be offended by anything said in the Coffee Corner as I don't go there. Rather my concern is for this website, which has a world-wide reputation as being one of the very best resources on the planet for people interested in the very many dimensions of photography. Photography is more than enough for it, and more than enough to keep it financially and intellectually successful. We don't need to pollute it with politics and we take unnecessary risks if we do. This is my advice to the site's management, and I'm going to leave it at that - time to move on - to photography!
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up