Etiquette and Political Discussions

[vjbelle]

You desire to deny those folks their fun?

Rob

Its not fun, and you know it.  Those 'Political' discussions get heated, mean spirited and generate attack responses.  LL should be beyond those types of discussions.  You wanna talk politics go somewhere else.

Victor

[Manoli]

Rob,

Part of the problem is nomenclature.
Replace the word 'political' with 'current affairs' and you've got a different slant.

At what point does a discussion on current affairs turn political, or rather when does it NOT touch on the political ?
Perhaps all those who object so, would also want a blanket ban any discussion that comes under the 'CA' banner - and therein lies the problem 'cos there are plenty of CA topics that touch on photography too ...

OK, I get it ... discuss CA , but just as long as it touches ONLY on photography and stifle any urge to discuss anything else with the people you've come to know through the medium of photography.

Of course we can keep discussing ever narrowing 'fields of expertise' but it isn't going to bring in new blood ..

M

And to Victor, I'd refer you to digitaldog v FranzWaterlander (IIRC) and likewise digitaldog, Schewe et al v Gary Fong - now come back and tell me they didn't have 'fun' - and there wasn't a thread of the political to be found anywhere!

I'm all in favour of 'snowflake utopia' but you need to remove those rose tinted glasses [/levity]

[vjbelle]

And to Victor, I'd refer you to digitaldog v FranzWaterlander (IIRC) and likewise digitaldog, Schewe et al v Gary Fong - now come back and tell me they didn't have 'fun' - and there wasn't a thread of the political to be found anywhere!

I'm all in favour of 'snowflake utopia' but you need to remove those rose tinted glasses [/levity]

Yes...... they had fun, lots of it - at the expense of others.  If you got a kick out of the 'Schewe bashing Trump' thread then good for you.  I didn't..... not because of my political views but because I thought/think that it was beneath LL for allowing its existence.  You can join Rob and start you own site and politicize until you're blue in the face....... just not here. 

Victor

[Manoli]

Yes...... they had fun, lots of it - at the expense of others. 

Your word, not mine.

As for the Trump thread - I didn't participate, and nowhere did I say I enjoyed it,  but I do know (quite) a few people who did enjoy reading the thread . some of whom joined the site.

If you got a kick out of the 'Schewe bashing Trump' thread then good for you.  I didn't..... not because of my political views but because I thought/think that it was beneath LL for allowing its existence.  You can join Rob and start you own site and politicize until you're blue in the face...

All of which has b-all to do with my earlier post.

..... just not here.

Which brings me back to my original point which you, probably inadvertently, also made with your opening sentence - vitriol and raised blood pressure isn't the exclusive domain of the CC.

[vjbelle]

I'm steady at 115 over 75 so all is fine here.   I've made my point and that's the end of it. 

Victor

[Rob C]

No it's not clear.

Do you understand the full meaning of reputational risk? Has it occurred to you that the perspective from which one needs to approach discussion on the internet is not necessarily personal but systemic? Once something is published it's a sitting duck, and it can't necessarily be ring-fenced. There are all kinds of people out there whose noses are easily put out of joint, especially nowadays when tolerance and civility are at a low ebb. Develop even the inkling of a reputation that this site is a place where political views they don't like is tolerated and you don't know what skills they have to deploy what kind of vengeance against us; it may not be contained to the Coffee Corner; coffee can spill. For me personally I could care less in a personal sense because I can't be offended by anything said in the Coffee Corner as I don't go there. Rather my concern is for this website, which has a world-wide reputation as being one of the very best resources on the planet for people interested in the very many dimensions of photography. Photography is more than enough for it, and more than enough to keep it financially and intellectually successful. We don't need to pollute it with politics and we take unnecessary risks if we do. This is my advice to the site's management, and I'm going to leave it at that - time to move on - to photography!

Mark, you have been very helpful to me in the past regarding setting up monitors etc. and I am not going to repay you with vitriol; I leave that conduct to others.

All I would add is that surrender to tyranny, whether from the individual or a crowd, is never a good policy for it only begets more of the same. By extension, rather than protecting LuLa, it merely opens it to extortion from every crackpot who comes its way.

Rob

[Mark D Segal]

Mark, you have been very helpful to me in the past regarding setting up monitors etc. and I am not going to repay you with vitriol; I leave that conduct to others.

All I would add is that surrender to tyranny, whether from the individual or a crowd, is never a good policy for it only begets more of the same. By extension, rather than protecting LuLa, it merely opens it to extortion from every crackpot who comes its way.

Rob

Rob, there's a place for everything and all I'm suggesting, for the reasons I've stated, is that this website is opening itself to unnecessary reputational and security risk by taking on political discussion. There will be no compromise of defense from tyranny if LuLa sticks to photography. With this, I have said what I have to say about this topic so I am closing out of it.

[TommyWeir]

I have to say I agree with Mark.  I regret the return of politics into LuLa.   As a relatively new user here I found it really unpleasant when I first wandered into CC. The ugliness expressed there really does have an impact upon how I felt about the site and I would say the site's reputation.   

I am here for the expertise, the detailed technical knowledge and the overall curiosity about matters photographic.  I'm ignoring certain users and CC as suggested.  Moving on, but it's disappointing to see it return.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Jeremy,

Welcome or congratulations - Global Moderator ?

I know. Sounds awfully grand, doesn't it? I'm trying not to let it go to my head 

Sad to see the passing of your 'handle' - was rather fond of 'kikasahi' .

Yes, so was I. I use it as a login pretty much everywhere. But I thought I'd better not lay myself open to any accusation of hiding behind anonymity.

Jeremy

[Telecaster]

I'd like to request moving my "New Camera Orbiting Jupiter" thread out of the Coffee Corner and into Landscape Showcase. That way folks wishing to avoid rant & chant threads will be more likely to see it. JunoCam's photos are kinda landscapes anyway.

-Dave-

[Farmer]

I'd like to request moving my "New Camera Orbiting Jupiter" thread out of the Coffee Corner and into Landscape Showcase. That way folks wishing to avoid rant & chant threads will be more likely to see it. JunoCam's photos are kinda landscapes anyway.

Good call.

[Jim Pascoe]

I've not visited the site for a while - but I did used to read the Coffee Corner quite often.  I thought it was a mistake to ban political and heated topics.  There probably are many other forums that cover politics - but I don't subscribe to any of them.  LL is the only forum I have visited and commented in regularly.

Personally I have enjoyed reading many of the topics in the CC over the years - particularly the ones on gun control in the US - I have been exposed to people who's views are polar opposite to mine.  That is an education and I value their views, even if I disagree with them.

Jim

[Rob C]

I've not visited the site for a while - but I did used to read the Coffee Corner quite often.  I thought it was a mistake to ban political and heated topics.  There probably are many other forums that cover politics - but I don't subscribe to any of them.  LL is the only forum I have visited and commented in regularly.

Personally I have enjoyed reading many of the topics in the CC over the years - particularly the ones on gun control in the US - I have been exposed to people who's views are polar opposite to mine.  That is an education and I value their views, even if I disagree with them.

Jim

Sounds pretty damned reasonable a position to me.

Rob

[Telecaster]

I don't mind, and sometimes even enjoy, discussions on heated topics when they're reasoned and cordial. This has increasingly not been the case here, to the point where I suspect it's no longer even possible amongst LuLa's current forum membership. I wouldn't mind being proved wrong…

-Dave-

[Otto Phocus]

 "There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people... Religion, Politics, and The Great Pumpkin."  -- Charles Schulz

[Rob C]

"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people... Religion, Politics, and The Great Pumpkin."  -- Charles Schulz

I agree with two of them being unwise ventures.

Rob

[Telecaster]

Repeating my above request.

I'd like to request moving my "New Camera Orbiting Jupiter" thread out of the Coffee Corner and into Landscape Showcase. That way folks wishing to avoid rant & chant threads will be more likely to see it. JunoCam's photos are kinda landscapes anyway.

-Dave-

[jeremyrh]

Reading the CC political and climate change threads I discovered that a number of people whose photography I had admired are actually rather pathetic human beings. No reason necessarily why those things should be mutually exclusive but I found it saddening. I'd have preferred to look at the pictures in ignorance.

[Jeremy Roussak]

I'd like to request moving my "New Camera Orbiting Jupiter" thread out of the Coffee Corner and into Landscape Showcase. That way folks wishing to avoid rant & chant threads will be more likely to see it. JunoCam's photos are kinda landscapes anyway.

Done. If you have requests such as this in future, it would be better to make them directly to me, Chris or Kevin rather than by a post in an unrelated thread.

Jeremy

[Rob C]

Reading the CC political and climate change threads I discovered that a number of people whose photography I had admired are actually rather pathetic human beings. No reason necessarily why those things should be mutually exclusive but I found it saddening. I'd have preferred to look at the pictures in ignorance.

Have you stopped to consider that, in the general scheme of creation, we all are?

Never mind photography, just look at Vincent van Gogh and Paul Gauguin; no need even to think about musicians: their feet and souls of clay are notoriously legion.

On some levels, I believe you can look upon most art forms as little but eloquent screams of anguish.

Rob