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Author Topic: Light for print viewing  (Read 15562 times)

pearlstreet

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Light for print viewing
« on: November 19, 2017, 07:09:32 pm »

I can't do the whole print viewing station but I have a large cabinet that I use to view prints but I need better lighting. Anyone have a good solution? I've tried searching the site but I'm not coming up with anything.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 07:58:30 pm »

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digitaldog

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 08:59:41 pm »

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pearlstreet

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 09:31:46 pm »

Thank you both.
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Garnick

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 08:56:27 am »

I can't do the whole print viewing station but I have a large cabinet that I use to view prints but I need better lighting. Anyone have a good solution? I've tried searching the site but I'm not coming up with anything.

Hi Sharon,

I started a thread on this topic about 5 months ago and had a number of responses with varied opinions.  I've been making photographic prints since the late 60s, working with various methods.  I initially started in a Custom Colour Lad and eventually my own lab since 1981.  When I moved my business to my home location earlier this year I was also dealing with the print evaluation lighting issue.  Until my move I had used 5000K fluorescent lighting for all of my printing years.  However, after a lot of research on the subject I decided to go the LED route.  More research and settled on a system from a company in Toronto.  I'm using a rectangular array of LED Bars, 2-6" and 2-48" bars connected in a 6" x48" configuration.  These are providing a 4000K light source, which is somewhat warmer than I was using previously, but so far seems to be suiting my needs very well.  Referring to your post I imagine this might be a bit costly for your situation, but the company I referred to also sells a variety of single bulbs as well that might be more suited to your setup.  This company specializes in high quality lighting for various situations, TV and Movie production included.  One very important piece of information you should look for in any light source used to evaluate colour prints is the Colour Rendering Index(CIR).  It should have a value of at least 90 and preferably higher.  As the name would imply, a lower rating would not render colours accurately, which would be useless for your purpose.

This is the company I've been referring to - http://lumicrest.com/.  These are the LED bars I'm using - http://lumicrest.com/product-category/led-flexible-strip/undercabinet-modular-lighting/.  The attachment shows part of my present work area, including the LED Bar assembly mentioned above. I hope this is of some use to you Sharon.

Gary


       

   
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Gary N.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 09:30:07 am »

Thanks very much, Gary. I can't use any kind of track lighting or ceiling lighting where I view prints. None of the lights on that site look like they can go in a lamp. I'll send them an email and see if they do.
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Garnick

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 09:50:20 am »

Thanks very much, Gary. I can't use any kind of track lighting or ceiling lighting where I view prints. None of the lights on that site look like they can go in a lamp. I'll send them an email and see if they do.

OK Sharon.  I wasn't aware of your viewing setup.  However, I would be very careful about the lamp you have been looking at.  It's obviously a fluorescent with a tungsten to add for a warmer light.  Even top of the line fluorescent bulbs usually exhibit spiking in certain colour areas, and also loose their colour temperature over a period of time, so I suspect this one might do so even sooner.  And also the CRI is not mentioned at all, which means it is probably quite low, and that's not good for evaluating colour prints.  If you need this sort of lamp for your needs I would suggest at least looking at some LED lamps.  They are usually very consistent and many will at least carry a CRI rating, so you can judge by that.  Often office supply stores carry such lamps.

Gary       
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

pearlstreet

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 10:41:05 am »

Thanks Gary.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 11:42:14 am »

Big doh to me, I had my search set up to only search one subforum.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 01:51:45 pm »

So I'm thinking about the goose neck solux.

http://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/clampon.html
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 02:07:25 pm »

So I'm thinking about the goose neck solux.

http://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/clampon.html
That's the one I have and I can mount it right next to my printer.

Alan
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digitaldog

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 02:25:35 pm »

CRI is a hack, don't go there.
Fluorescent's have spectral spikes making them less than ideal for this kind of work if/when you end up encountering OBAs.
Nothing I know of produces a spectrum from a man made Light source like Solux. Hopefully LED will get there someday as these pups put out heat!
I use both Solux which I prefer, and a GTI Fluorescent booth since other's in print and prepress use such a booth and that's useful when collaborating remotely and viewing prints. But other than that,


http://digitaldog.net/files/15TheRightLightpart1.pdf


I'd prefer Solux for critical print viewing NEXT to my display:
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 02:29:35 pm »

Quote
So I'm thinking about the goose neck solux.
If that works for you. I'ld recommend you get it. It's the most accurate to the color rendering characteristics of a sunbeam on the planet.

There's an observation I'ld like to relate here about daylight balanced LED's I'm starting to notice in how they circumvent the green to bluegreen spike in their spectra. And I see it in the photo posted by Garnick's studio setup and in my Hyperikon LED bulbs.

Couple of years ago I bought a 27" LG LED sRGB gamut display that was color calibrated at the factory by a very expensive Minolta Color Analyzer. What I've found in the ensuing years comparing its native white to the high CRI LED 4000K- 5000K bulbs is that the bulb's color of white has a magenta filtering component that attempts to neutralize their green spike. Since it is very difficult for us humans to see the exact color of bright transmissive white on a display it works out pretty well but not as perfect as the Solux.

I just found this out when calibrating/profiling my LED display with the Colormunki Display set to target white balance of D65 which now makes my native white and neutral grays look greenish. I checked the Target D65 profile's vcgt tag (I have a Mac) which shows the red and blue curves equally pulled way down from the top that are making my video card render in a way my supposedly native 6500K white point of my display comply with Xrite's definition of 6500K which is attempting to override the magenta bias of white I can't see on my display.

This could be an alternate method of double profiling due to the appearance of the color of white can be subject to adaptation and thus my native display white, though it was measured at the factory to be 6500K, by setting to target D65 (instead of native) tells the software that the Minolta Color Analyzer definition of 6500K isn't so perfectly neutral.

Not sure but when I see a pattern of manipulation of color with daylight LED bulbs compared to LED backlit displays, it makes me take note. Any PAR30 or PAR20 bulb as on the Lumicrest site will work but find out how much light they put out first because you may need to buy more than one to get it to match the luminance of your bright white LED display which is far more influential in color matching prints.

I'm not that concerned about it because my eyes adapt pretty well to slight variances of white light and any tint that might exist in neutral grays. It's so subtle that it doesn't really drastically change the appearance of memory colors but B&W prints might be slightly off from the display under these LED bulbs.

Just something I discovered about LED daylight bulbs.
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digitaldog

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 02:31:27 pm »

Just something I discovered about LED daylight bulbs.
Yeah, they are not daylight. Now onto Fluorescent bulbs that tell you they are 'daylight' or worse, D50/D65.
Quote
Couple of years ago I bought a 27" LG LED sRGB gamut display that was color calibrated at the factory by a very expensive Minolta Color Analyzer
Calibrated to what/why and what makes the consumer believe that this 'calibration' is ideal for the needs OR doesn't shift over time??? And you believe IF you use your very expensive or inexpensive 'color analyzer" (probably a colorimeter or spectroradiometer), that you'll produce the same results?
The amount of marketing BS people accept is worrisome....
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 02:43:32 pm »

Calibrated to what/why and what makes the consumer believe that this 'calibration' is ideal for the needs OR doesn't shift over time??? And you believe IF you use your very expensive or inexpensive 'color analyzer" (probably a colorimeter or spectroradiometer), that you'll produce the same results?
The amount of marketing BS people accept is worrisome....

I was going by your statement you've said many times that there is a range of color temp hues that can be defined by a color analyzer or spectro as some number of Kelvin or 'D' designation. It is the manipulation of white balance appearance which of course we adapt quite quickly to that is the secret sauce behind selling daylight bulbs including the Solux.

Are you going to question the accuracy of a $10K Minolta Color Analyzer or are you going to fully explain the engineering behind the manipulation going on by the entire industry. I believe that's above your pay grade, Andrew.
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digitaldog

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 02:51:51 pm »

I was going by your statement you've said many times that there is a range of color temp hues that can be defined by a color analyzer or spectro as some number of Kelvin or 'D' designation. It is the manipulation of white balance appearance which of course we adapt quite quickly to that is the secret sauce behind selling daylight bulbs including the Solux.
What I wrote was correct, what you wrote about the calibration from the factory was questionably useful and filled mostly with marketing hype you accepted. Can you answer my questions about how this calibration from the factory is useful and the end of the calibration process moving froward? With a different device?
Pretty clear here who's pay grade is lower than another.....

Quote
Are you going to question the accuracy of a $10K Minolta Color Analyzer or are you going to fully explain the engineering behind the manipulation going on by the entire industry. I believe that's above your pay grade, Andrew.
Did I say anything about accuracy of the devices? No. Did I call out the silly notion that your display being calibrated from the factory is marketing hype? Or that you'll have to calibrate yourself in time, using a different device? I asked if you expect that to produce a match to what you got out of the box; no answer.
Tell us what you think you've gained with this comment if it's factual:
Couple of years ago I bought a 27" LG LED sRGB gamut display that was color calibrated at the factory by a very expensive Minolta Color Analyzer.

Couple years ago I bought a car, it came with a full tank of gas and smelled new. So what?
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Garnick

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 03:00:48 pm »

CRI is a hack, don't go there.
Fluorescent's have spectral spikes making them less than ideal for this kind of work if/when you end up encountering OBAs.
Nothing I know of produces a spectrum from a man made Light source like Solux. Hopefully LED will get there someday as these pups put out heat!
I use both Solux which I prefer, and a GTI Fluorescent booth since other's in print and prepress use such a booth and that's useful when collaborating remotely and viewing prints. But other than that,


http://digitaldog.net/files/15TheRightLightpart1.pdf


I'd prefer Solux for critical print viewing NEXT to my display:


Hi Andrew,

Not that I dispute your information or opinion on this subject, but have you looked at the Lumicrest site and their testing information?  I'd like to get your opinion on what you see there as well if possible.   

Gary 
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digitaldog

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 03:03:17 pm »

Quote
have you looked at the Lumicrest site and their testing information?
I have not looked at that specific LED; got a URL?
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Light for print viewing
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 03:03:24 pm »

What I wrote was correct, what you wrote about the calibration from the factory was questionably useful and filled mostly with marketing hype you accepted. Can you answer my questions about how this calibration from the factory is useful and the end of the calibration process moving froward?
Pretty clear here who's pay grade is lower than another.....
Did I say anything about accuracy of the devices? No. Did I call out the silly notion that your display being calibrated from the factory is marketing hype? Or that you'll have to calibrate yourself in time, using a different device? I asked if you expect that to produce a match to what you got out of the box; no answer.
Tell us what you think you've gained with this comment if it's factual:
Couple of years ago I bought a 27" LG LED sRGB gamut display that was color calibrated at the factory by a very expensive Minolta Color Analyzer.

Couple years ago I bought a car, it came with a full tank of gas and smelled new. So what?

I'ld rather let others determine whether my observations on the magenta filtering component in high CRI LED daylight bulbs is useful information. There seems to always be this battle between whether neutral white should look green or red. Now I'm seeing it in LED displays and bulbs. Whether it's high CRI numbers or some spectrum graph analysis really isn't as important as just having enough light to make the brightness of white paper match the brightness of display white. 
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