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tintoreto

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Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« on: November 12, 2017, 04:26:50 am »

For all they want to compare ...  :)

http://austinmann.com/trek
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Paul2660

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 08:07:34 am »

If all you need is 72 dpi on the web, love the sRGB color space and 8 bits  I agree, why not just use an iPhone.   It works for most of the younger generation who are only interested in getting the current moment on the web. 

If you are at all concerned with a final print the way photography used to be focused, the iPhone for me is a pass. 

Paul Caldwell
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 09:05:01 am »

Man, I don't even feel that the iPhone images are good enough for FaceBook.  It is hugely convenient, but my phone takes pretty shitty pics.  All of my iPhones have.  I've preordered the  iPhone X, but I'm not looking forward to taking photos with it at all. 

Now, my wife's Samsung... that takes halfway decent photos.

HSakols

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 12:11:11 pm »

Because I already have a couple of medium format cameras, but I don't even own a cell phone.  Today my Nikon D800 is my medium format.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 03:57:54 pm »

Hi,

I would suggest it is more about the photographer than the camera.

A real camera gives you full control things like aperture, shutter speed and focal length. What matters most for me is that it also offers a tripod mount.

But, cell phone cameras can yield images that you cannot tell apart from say a Phase One P65+, if you don't print large enough.

Check, Real World Image Sharpening by Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe, second edition,  pages 30-33.

If you shoot a great image with an iPhone it may be better than one thousand mediocre images on medium format, or no picture at all. After all, f/8 and being there was often what photojournalism has been about.

Best regards
Erik



For all they want to compare ...  :)

http://austinmann.com/trek
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Paul2660

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 04:31:43 pm »

Hi Eric,

I am familiar with the pages you mention in the book, even tested it myself.  For my results for a 30 x 40 or even a 20 x 30 at 300 ppi, I will stay with the MF or 35mm camera. 

The iPhone I agree can take a shots that are easier to capture, and many times works better in inopportune times, but the results from any iPhone I have used,4, 5, 6+ and 7+ the camera/lens/iso combination most times would not make a nice print. 

Last time I checked the iPhone is still 12MP, and I have long given up attempting to interpolate a  11mp raw from my old Canon 1ds MKi to much larger than 16 x 20, just won't hold up for me.  And I have never found any software that can interpolate to the quality of a native image from a larger MP camera, thus the reason I have stitched for years now.

Probably just me I guess, but for others I am sure a worthwhile tool.

Paul Caldwell
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 05:50:02 pm »

Those iPhone pictures look awful! What a waste of perfectly good pictures!  :-[
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 02:08:08 am »

Hi Paul,

My point was more about horses for the races...

The samples in the book were small, of course. But, at that size, the advantage of the larger format was not obvious. Most images taken are only shown on screen. Screens now go 4K which is around 10 MP I would guess, cropping taken into account.

For prints, I would agree that "serious formats" are beneficial. But, neither a Sony A7rII, Fuji GFX or Phase One FX is something I would carry in the pocket of my pants.

I actually don't use cell phone cameras, it is "no real photography" for me. But, that is no reason to ignore them. And, they are where the action is...

Best regards
Erik

Hi Eric,

I am familiar with the pages you mention in the book, even tested it myself.  For my results for a 30 x 40 or even a 20 x 30 at 300 ppi, I will stay with the MF or 35mm camera. 

The iPhone I agree can take a shots that are easier to capture, and many times works better in inopportune times, but the results from any iPhone I have used,4, 5, 6+ and 7+ the camera/lens/iso combination most times would not make a nice print. 

Last time I checked the iPhone is still 12MP, and I have long given up attempting to interpolate a  11mp raw from my old Canon 1ds MKi to much larger than 16 x 20, just won't hold up for me.  And I have never found any software that can interpolate to the quality of a native image from a larger MP camera, thus the reason I have stitched for years now.

Probably just me I guess, but for others I am sure a worthwhile tool.

Paul Caldwell
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eronald

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 10:54:24 am »

I have a Fuji X100, original model, for the rare cases when i still need a small but good quality camera.

You guys?

Edmund

Hi Paul,

My point was more about horses for the races...

The samples in the book were small, of course. But, at that size, the advantage of the larger format was not obvious. Most images taken are only shown on screen. Screens now go 4K which is around 10 MP I would guess, cropping taken into account.

For prints, I would agree that "serious formats" are beneficial. But, neither a Sony A7rII, Fuji GFX or Phase One FX is something I would carry in the pocket of my pants.

I actually don't use cell phone cameras, it is "no real photography" for me. But, that is no reason to ignore them. And, they are where the action is...

Best regards
Erik
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 10:28:10 pm »

I have a Fuji X100, original model, for the rare cases when i still need a small but good quality camera.

You guys?

RX100 mk V, but I find my D850 compact enough for a large majority of the cases when I intend to take photographs.

There are certainly relevant cases where compactness is of paramount importance (shooting in a pocket submarine?), but as far as I am concerned I feel that I am sometimes attracted to compactness for the wrong reasons, namely a lack of commitment to the act of photography, a desire to take photographs without being into it.

And my personnal experience is that I never get good photographs out of those stolen sessions.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 11:31:07 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 01:29:05 am »

Hi,

I am a bit like Bernard, when I want to take pictures I always use "big gear". In my case it is a Sony A7rII with half a dozen, or so, lenses.

The lens kit is like 16-35/4, 24-105/4, 24/3.5 TS , 70-400/4-5.6, 90/2.8 macro and a 28-85/3.3-4 for using Scheimpflug.

I also have a Sony RX100 (Mk 1), but it sees little use and a Lenovo cell phone that also sees little use.

Any of the devices will produce good enough images for screen. I have made A2-size (16" x 23") prints from the RX100.

The reason the cell phone and the RX100 sees little use are that I don't consider them serious tools. But, both can deliver images that are good enough for most purposes.

The main limitation of both the RX100 and the cell phone is the lack of viewfinder and to some extent the user interface. The cell phone also lacks a tripod mount and it is of course limited by it's fixed wide angle lens and jpeg format. So, I don't feel it is fun to shoot with the cell phone.

On the other hand, cell phone makes it to situations where I would not carry a camera and they are quiet OK at taking pictures. That is the reason that they have taken over much of commonplace photography.

A good photographer knows how to make best use of any camera, so (s)he will get great images with any tool.

If I plan on making a large print, I would obviously take the highest resolution device I have available, put it on the best tripod I have and focus as good I can, use medium aperture to avoid diffraction, ETTR for best shadow detail, employ Scheimpflug for best depth of field and so on. Cell phones don't allow me to that. The Hasselblad 555/ELD with the P45+ is not easy to focus and it does not really offer Scheimpflug. (*)

Small sensors often lead development. After all, it takes a lot of engineering to get good image quality from a small sensor surveillance camera or a cell phone. Those developments spill over to larger sensors in due time.

So, I don't feel there is a need to sneeze at cell phones. After all, the image doesn't care about the device used to shoot it. A device in the trunk of the car will miss the action.

Best regards
Erik

(*) I have a solution for the Hasselblad called Flexbody. Very nice, but I would not use it in the field.

RX100 mk V, but I find my D850 compact enough for a large majority of the cases when I intend to take photographs.

There are certainly relevant cases where compactness is of paramount importance (shooting in a pocket submarine?), but as far as I am concerned I feel that I am sometimes attracted to compactness for the wrong reasons, namely a lack of commitment to the act of photography, a desire to take photographs without being into it.

And my personnal experience is that I never get good photographs out of those stolen sessions.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 04:36:37 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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dchew

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 08:22:51 am »

The last time I spent multiple nights out in the wilderness I took two camera systems: MF technical camera and a7rii. Each with three lenses. The a7rii sat in a chest pouch with the three lenses, MF in the backpack. The Sony used for images on the trail or during breaks where I did not want or need to take out the MF and set up the tripod. After some time of living with the images, only a few from the a7rii made it into the portfolio, and all of those were w/ 35mm lens. That made me think my next camera may be a rx1r.

However, I have yet to sell a print from those "on the trail" images from the a7rii. As Bernard and Erik pointed out, those images just are not cutting it. Not because of the camera but because of my lack of focus. I am now thinking the better approach is to just ditch the a7rii all together and use the iPhone for those "on the trail" images. The one thing it would kill is the idea of the a7rii being a pseudo back-up.

Anyway, for me the more relevant title for this thread would be, "Why using full frame if there is an iPhone..."

Dave
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:38:58 am by dchew »
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TimoK

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 01:29:31 pm »

The site OP did link was very much the Answer of his Question. http://austinmann.com/trek
The Image Quality.
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Paul2660

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 02:52:49 pm »

I glad that it works out for him. 

Paul Caldwell
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algrove

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 02:08:48 pm »

Because I print. :) :o
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luxborealis

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 03:13:50 pm »

If you shoot a great image with an iPhone it may be better than one thousand mediocre images on medium format, or no picture at all. After all, f/8 and being there was often what photojournalism has been about.

I donít even own a phone beyond my landline, but what Erik says is as true today as it was in the 4x5 vs 35mm days! While there are limitations to EVERY system, we can add to Erikís post be saying:

Itís not what youíve got, itís what you do with it that counts

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eronald

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2017, 08:56:18 pm »

I donít even own a phone beyond my landline, but what Erik says is as true today as it was in the 4x5 vs 35mm days! While there are limitations to EVERY system, we can add to Erikís post be saying:

Itís not what youíve got, itís what you do with it that counts

That may be what that lady at the bar whispered in my girlfriend's ear.

Regardless, I vote "Because I print" by ALGROVE as the best comment ever on this forum in the "short funny" category..

Edmund
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landscapephoto

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 02:30:07 am »

Why not both?

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lowep

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 09:15:57 pm »

why use an iphone when you can just look through a leftover cardboard tube after the toilet paper runs out?
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tintoreto

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Re: Why using medium format if there is an iphone...
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 10:40:53 am »

why use an iphone when you can just look through a leftover cardboard tube after the toilet paper runs out?

because you can not save it after you look through the cardboard tube... :-)

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