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Author Topic: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?  (Read 25712 times)

fredjeang2

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2018, 08:38:23 am »

That review is terrible. These online reviews are usually useless.

The reviewer says "There are no differences at low ISO values, so I am only going to show you ISO 6400 and ISO 100 pushed to 5 stops."

The reviewer then shows two pictures and says "Do you see any differences here? Good, because I donít see any either"

But if you open up both images in separate tabbed windows and click between the two you see one is much more saturated than the other. There is a startling difference and it means the entire review is useless.

The reviewer is incapable. Doesn't even know what they are looking at or what to look for. The internet is full of amateur hacks who have no idea, making "reviews". Al they are doing is fumbling along learning and putting it out there as some kind of relevant opinion.

The only person you can rely on for a test and review is yourself.
I certainly agree with you here.
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Rado

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #141 on: March 22, 2018, 10:56:14 am »

I wish Hasselblad would expand its rental service and locations - they are not anywhere near where I am. It does not make sense for me to own gear this expensive but I would rent it few times a year for the prices they list on their rental pages.
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #142 on: March 22, 2018, 11:47:19 am »

I have noticed this also. The Hasselblad looks significantly better in colour to me. It looks like proper Medium Format colour and has really impressed me.

The Fuji looks more like dSLR colour and looks relatively thin. I don't remember seeing anything from the Fuji that has impressed me.

i guess we all have different opinions.....i felt exactly the same way about the X1D when  compared it head to head with my A7RII....nothing that made me go WOW...glad i still reluctantly tried the GFX.....definitely got a WOW there.....
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #143 on: March 22, 2018, 12:07:35 pm »

Hi,

Two cameras sharing the same sensor. Both cameras have very good lenses. The lenses project an image on a sensor made by Sony. That sensor delivers a digital signal to the camera.

We perhaps should not discuss which camera is better but which camera has the better users?

Now, just to say, if you are coming from Hasselblad you may prefer the HB approach, like using Phocus, or enjoying HB interpretation of colour. Or you may come from the Fuji side and prefer Fuji colour.

I would think that the cameras are pretty much same regarding image quality. But, ther may be differences in interpretation of colour, and that difference may be workflow dependent.

Also, the cameras take some different aproaches. 
  • Fuiji GFX has focal plane shutter, making it easy to adopt lenses.
  • X1D has Leaf Shutter that makes life easy with electronic flash.
  • GFX has lot of buttons, X1D is more GUI based.
  • GFX has round aperture, X1D has octagonal aperture.

A good photographer chooses a system that is workable. That system may have some limitations.

As a side note, I think that Fuji has some key advantages. They have built EVF systems for a long time. Hasselblad is a newcomer in mirrorless. Fuji can rely on technology developed for their APS-C product line, while Hasselblad starts from scratch.

I have not seen any evidence for one system being better than the other. I have seen a lot about the capabilities of the GFX, due to diligent efforts by Jim Kasson. Regarding the X1D, I have not seen a lot of high quality testing. But it is my guess that it is a very good system.

There may be a discussion about the usability of electronic shutter vs. the Electronic First Shutter Curtain of the GFX. My take is that when ES works, it is as good as EFCS.

My take is that it is good to have two great options. Competition is always good! Who is the winner and who is the second may seem important. But this is photography and not the Olympic Games.What matters is that we have great alternatives.

Best regards
Erik

I am tempted to buy one of these medium format cameras. Mostly I want it to use my old
Hasselblad V and Contax 645 lenses. Manually with live view. My question is this:
Is the one camera really better than the other? Size and stylichness is not important to me.
Just functions and iq matters.

The lenses I hope to use is the Apo macro Planar Contax, 55 mm Contax, 35 mm Contax,
Hasselblad 100mm cfi, Hasselblad 180mm cfi, Hasselblad 250mm sa, Hasselblad 300 sa.
etc.

Henrik
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Jim Kasson

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #144 on: March 22, 2018, 01:00:51 pm »

I am tempted to buy one of these medium format cameras. Mostly I want it to use my old
Hasselblad V and Contax 645 lenses. Manually with live view. My question is this:
Is the one camera really better than the other? Size and stylichness is not important to me.
Just functions and iq matters.

The lenses I hope to use is the Apo macro Planar Contax, 55 mm Contax, 35 mm Contax,
Hasselblad 100mm cfi, Hasselblad 180mm cfi, Hasselblad 250mm sa, Hasselblad 300 sa.
etc.

Henrik

I think Erik's delineation of the different design choices of the two cameras was a good one, but if I were the OP, my decision would be most strongly influenced by the FP shutter in the GFX. With the X1D, with those lenses, the OP would have to use the electronic shutter. That would be quite limiting.

I should point out that, with the GFX, the Fuji H-to-G and Hasselblad V-to-H adapters can't be stacked, so you'll need a dumb V-to-G adapter. If the Hasselblad V-to-H adapter can be stacked with the Hasselblad H-to-G adapter, you may be able to use the leaf shutter in the V lenses, but I have not heard that that works.

I have tested the 250 SA on the GFX, and it is a respectable combination, although it didn't perform as well for me on that camera as the Leica 280/4 Apo, so I sold it. I would think the Fuji 250, when available, would be a better lens on the GFX. You say you have a 300 sa. If you mean the 350 SA, I think that lens should be very good on the GFX, although I have not tested it.

On the larger issue of the merits of the two cameras, I think that most photographers will gravitate towards one or the other depending on their workflows, use cases, and handling preferences. I think they are both excellent cameras, and I wouldn't think that IQ would be a material factor in the choice between them. IQ differences would be possible due to the different sensor stacks, the different microlens configurations, and the possible, but AFAIK, unconfirmed, difference in CFA spectra.

Jim

Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #145 on: March 22, 2018, 02:55:06 pm »

Some good points being made here.

I think some of the difference also comes down to Raw developer and colour profiling.

Generally, digital colour is greatly affected by adjustment, the least that can occur, the better. And when those adjustments do occur, the quality of those adjustments varies a great deal from camera to camera, profile to profile, software to software. I am willing to bet that Hasselblad has a far deeper level of integration and integrity with Phocus than Fuji has with Lightroom.

It's one thing having better colour SOOC from the sensor, lens, camera, in camera processing envelope. It's another thing to have a greater level of attention and development in adjustment algorithms and profiles tailored to specific cameras, specific lenses, specific lighting. This is also what Phase One offers with Capture One also. Even something like purple fringing can be subdued with colour profiling, eliminating red from the blue channel as much as possible.

When a camera has a dedicated RAW developer and it's worked on in house then it's no surprise that the resulting images will have more colour purity, in a wider range of lighting conditions and other circumstances.
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #146 on: March 22, 2018, 02:57:21 pm »

That review is terrible. These online reviews are usually useless.

The reviewer says "There are no differences at low ISO values, so I am only going to show you ISO 6400 and ISO 100 pushed to 5 stops."

The reviewer then shows two pictures and says "Do you see any differences here? Good, because I donít see any either"

But if you open up both images in separate tabbed windows and click between the two you see one is much more saturated than the other. There is a startling difference and it means the entire review is useless.

The reviewer is incapable. Doesn't even know what they are looking at or what to look for. The internet is full of amateur hacks who have no idea, making "reviews". Al they are doing is fumbling along learning and putting it out there as some kind of relevant opinion.

The only person you can rely on for a test and review is yourself.
not sure why it is necessary to lean into the reviewer....they were just stating what they saw or did not see....all reviews are just personal opinion, its up to the reader to make their own observations......i think in this particular case the reviewer was surprised by the X1D's bokeh shape....
in general i agree with the rest: it is the same sensor, secret sauce on each but all in all things should not be that different....
i did my own tests with the X1D and wasn't too impressed, but now, looking back i think that is more because of the glass then the camera/sensor...
i am pretty sure one can get very similar results in terms of color from both, but i prefer the fuji color as a starting point...others will prefer hasselblad...
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #147 on: March 22, 2018, 03:07:31 pm »

Some good points being made here.

I think some of the difference also comes down to Raw developer and colour profiling.

Generally, digital colour is greatly affected by adjustment, the least that can occur, the better. And when those adjustments do occur, the quality of those adjustments varies a great deal from camera to camera, profile to profile, software to software. I am willing to bet that Hasselblad has a far deeper level of integration and integrity with Phocus than Fuji has with Lightroom.

It's one thing having better colour SOOC from the sensor, lens, camera, in camera processing envelope. It's another thing to have a greater level of attention and development in adjustment algorithms and profiles tailored to specific cameras, specific lenses, specific lighting. This is also what Phase One offers with Capture One also. Even something like purple fringing can be subdued with colour profiling, eliminating red from the blue channel as much as possible.

When a camera has a dedicated RAW developer and it's worked on in house then it's no surprise that the resulting images will have more colour purity, in a wider range of lighting conditions and other circumstances.

i have to agree with that logic, although i don't think that there is such a thing as absolute color....i mean of course there is but IMO photography is very much about a subjective representation of a moment/scene/place/mood/idea and since everybody sees color differently anyway, exact numbers go out the window....
but i, myself, definitely look for a clean slate and as much information as possible when it comes to how the image is captured....
just out of curiosity: have you actually tried the GFX? not just seen it but actually shot with it and compared files?
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adammork

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #148 on: March 22, 2018, 04:38:45 pm »

I have noticed this also. The Hasselblad looks significantly better in colour to me. It looks like proper Medium Format colour and has really impressed me.

The Fuji looks more like dSLR colour and looks relatively thin. I don't remember seeing anything from the Fuji that has impressed me.

I tested the GFX vs. X1D vs. Canon 5dmk4 together with an other architectural photographer we came to the exact same conclusion, the GFX was quit similar to the canon in the feel of the colours and depth - X1D was an other storie - the colours just separated in a very beautiful way, so well defined brining the materiality to live in an extend I never seen before.

In many ways the GFX is the better tool, but the X1D file is just so beautiful, and the shooting experience is quit similar to the Hasselblad SWC, wich I like a lot.

My main camera is an Alpa with an iq3 trichromatic so I’m used to look at quality files and the look of the X1D files truly impressed me!

We both bought the X1D....
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Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2018, 04:52:32 pm »

i have to agree with that logic, although i don't think that there is such a thing as absolute color....i mean of course there is but IMO photography is very much about a subjective representation of a moment/scene/place/mood/idea and since everybody sees color differently anyway, exact numbers go out the window....
but i, myself, definitely look for a clean slate and as much information as possible when it comes to how the image is captured....
just out of curiosity: have you actually tried the GFX? not just seen it but actually shot with it and compared files?

I agree with that. I'm sure some like the way the Fuji looks. I've not come to any conclusions yet because I don't have enough info but everything I have seen looks a particular way and I've not been personally been so impressed by that.

But that's what it's all about isn't it? If you like what it does then it you use it. Who cares what others think.

No, I've not tested the GFX. I've not seen anything to make me want to test it and I don't test anything unless I feel it's right.

I've been shooting Phase One since 2007 so have my own bench marks/taste of what I expect. Only from what I have seen, the X1D is inline with that. I've held the camera and liked it a lot. I'm impressed all-round with it. It's a bit too sluggish for me at the moment but I will likely pick up an 100MP X2D if and when the camera and lenses I want materialise.
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #150 on: March 22, 2018, 05:11:26 pm »

I agree with that. I'm sure some like the way the Fuji looks. I've not come to any conclusions yet because I don't have enough info but everything I have seen looks a particular way and I've not been personally been so impressed by that.

But that's what it's all about isn't it? If you like what it does then it you use it. Who cares what others think.

No, I've not tested the GFX. I've not seen anything to make me want to test it and I don't test anything unless I feel it's right.

I've been shooting Phase One since 2007 so have my own bench marks/taste of what I expect. Only from what I have seen, the X1D is inline with that. I've held the camera and liked it a lot. I'm impressed all-round with it. It's a bit too sluggish for me at the moment but I will likely pick up an 100MP X2D if and when the camera and lenses I want materialise.
so you haven't even tried one of the cameras this thread is about and have handled the other but don't own it....
but you are resolutely dismissing someone's review who actually shot both side by side and posted their experience....
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Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #151 on: March 22, 2018, 05:26:08 pm »

I tested the GFX vs. X1D vs. Canon 5dmk4 together with an other architectural photographer we came to the exact same conclusion, the GFX was quit similar to the canon in the feel of the colours and depth - X1D was an other storie - the colours just separated in a very beautiful way, so well defined brining the materiality to live in an extend I never seen before.

In many ways the GFX is the better tool, but the X1D file is just so beautiful, and the shooting experience is quit similar to the Hasselblad SWC, wich I like a lot.

My main camera is an Alpa with an iq3 trichromatic so Iím used to look at quality files and the look of the X1D files truly impressed me!

We both bought the X1D....

That is my exact same feelings. The GFX is better in terms of responsiveness, features, available lenses and Hasselblad has some catching up to do in that regard. I think the Fuji angle finder adapter is nothing short of genius. But as nice as things like the angle finder are, they don't make me want to use a camera any more if I'm just not feeling the images and the GFX colour looks like dSLR colour to me. The way the images look is the primary reason for me using a particular camera/lens. I'm also a Phase One shooter for many years, I just like what I like and see what I am used to. I don't think it's unfair to compare those systems because what I see in the X1D really impresses me and seems more inline with that.
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Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #152 on: March 22, 2018, 05:35:10 pm »

so you haven't even tried one of the cameras this thread is about and have handled the other but don't own it....
but you are resolutely dismissing someone's review who actually shot both side by side and posted their experience....

It's a pointless review from someone who doesn't appear to know their arse from their elbow. The internet is full of those reviews.

I have no interest in testing a camera that I'm not initially impressed by.

You're welcome to feel differently.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 05:39:15 pm by Bo_Dez »
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #153 on: March 22, 2018, 05:47:59 pm »

It's a pointless review from someone who doesn't appear to know their arse from their elbow. The internet is full of those reviews.

I have no interest in testing a camera that I'm not initially impressed by.

You're welcome to feel differently.
sorry but you keep posting here about these cameras like you actually know them, which you don't?
i am in no way calling that review a in-depth great comparison but at least the guy went through the trouble of actually shooting both cameras?
i have no problem that you don't want to test a camera but you keep posting negative comments about the fuji and it seems you are just getting your information from online reviews, and i guess you pick and choose which ones you want to believe in?
and you actually haven't shot or worked with the X1D but keep posting glorious remarks about its files?
amazing
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Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #154 on: March 22, 2018, 06:03:27 pm »

sorry but you keep posting here about these cameras like you actually know them, which you don't?
i am in no way calling that review a in-depth great comparison but at least the guy went through the trouble of actually shooting both cameras?
i have no problem that you don't want to test a camera but you keep posting negative comments about the fuji and it seems you are just getting your information from online reviews, and i guess you pick and choose which ones you want to believe in?
and you actually haven't shot or worked with the X1D but keep posting glorious remarks about its files?
amazing

That's how opinions and discussion work. I'm happy for you to have your own opinion, maybe you could try let others have theirs?

I've said positive things about the Fuji too.

There are several thousand GFX photos on the internet and some good tests too. That is enough for me to get an impression. I don't need to test gear to get an impression and to have a discussion about that impression on a discussion forum board.

Are you telling me this because you think I might care?
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #155 on: March 22, 2018, 06:09:42 pm »

That's how opinions and discussion work. I'm happy for you to have your own opinion, maybe you could try let others have theirs?

I've said positive things about the Fuji too.

There are several thousand GFX photos on the internet and some good tests too. That is enough for me to get an impression. I don't need to test gear to get an impression and to have a discussion about that impression on a discussion forum board.

Are you telling me this because you think I might care?

no, no, no, i don't think you care at all....obviously...
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Kirk_C

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #156 on: March 22, 2018, 10:17:55 pm »


I think some of the difference also comes down to Raw developer and colour profiling.

Generally, digital colour is greatly affected by adjustment, the least that can occur, the better. And when those adjustments do occur, the quality of those adjustments varies a great deal from camera to camera, profile to profile, software to software. I am willing to bet that Hasselblad has a far deeper level of integration and integrity with Phocus than Fuji has with Lightroom.

It's one thing having better colour SOOC from the sensor, lens, camera, in camera processing envelope. It's another thing to have a greater level of attention and development in adjustment algorithms and profiles tailored to specific cameras, specific lenses, specific lighting. This is also what Phase One offers with Capture One also. Even something like purple fringing can be subdued with colour profiling, eliminating red from the blue channel as much as possible.

When a camera has a dedicated RAW developer and it's worked on in house then it's no surprise that the resulting images will have more colour purity, in a wider range of lighting conditions and other circumstances.

That pretty much sums it up from my experience.

I've shot with both cameras but haven't bought either of them, yet.

The advantage of Phocus vs LR accounts for the tremendous difference in the un-adjusted image colour / quality / look.

When I worked with the images from the Fuji I found plenty of potential. I just had to work for it vs the X1D handing me an image that had a look very close to what I've enjoyed in 40 years of shooting Hasselblads. That of course was pleasing but I'm not lazy and I am patient. I expect Fuji will continue to improve many aspects of their camera as the recent firmware update proves.

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adammork

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #157 on: March 23, 2018, 06:59:26 am »


The advantage of Phocus vs LR accounts for the tremendous difference in the un-adjusted image colour / quality / look.

When I worked with the images from the Fuji I found plenty of potential. I just had to work for it vs the X1D handing me an image that had a look very close to what I've enjoyed in 40 years of shooting Hasselblads. That of course was pleasing but I'm not lazy and I am patient. I expect Fuji will continue to improve many aspects of their camera as the recent firmware update proves.

When we tested the GFX against the X1D we used LR for both cameras - even in LR the quality of the X1D shines....
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #158 on: March 23, 2018, 04:00:02 pm »

Hi,

It seems that LR uses Hasselblad's colour processing pipeline.

Best regards
Erik

When we tested the GFX against the X1D we used LR for both cameras - even in LR the quality of the X1D shines....
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Juanito

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #159 on: March 25, 2018, 03:37:42 pm »

Haven't check in on this forum for a few months. Surprised to see this thread still going. (I posted back on page one.) I've owned the X1D for about a year now so I've got as much experience with it as anyone. I love the files and the light weight and slim build. I've hardly picked up my overweight H5 camera since I bought the X1D. The images are comparable but the H5 feels just too clunky now.

Just a couple of days ago, I was chatting with a knowledgable salesman at a (the) pro camera shop in New York City. They've been selling digital backs for years. The X1D is the biggest selling digital MF camera they've ever carried. Their experience with it has been similar to mine however: It's a buggy camera. It's not uncommon to have to reset the camera by turning it on and off or removing the battery. Getting a setting to change or work often requires several taps (or a reset). I use the adapter for my HC lenses. Usually I have good luck but on one occasion I couldn't get it to work with my 120mm lens no matter what I did. Another time, it was fine. Worked great out in the snow with my 28mm HC lens. Basically, us users are all beta testers for this camera.

The other thing is that Hasselblad customer and repair service is not good. The salesman I talked to mentioned having to regularly battle with Hasselblad to get repairs covered under warranty. My own experience hasn't been positive. My X1D was flawed on delivery. I felt that it should have been replaced with a new one, but instead Hasselblad insisted on sending it back to Sweden. Took from April to July to get my camera back. I was not happy. (BTW, the salesman had nothing but high praise for Phase One.)

All this isn't to say that I don't love my X1D. Once I'm shooting, it keeps going without complaint. I may even buy another for a backup. But... if I didn't need the leaf shutter, I'd go with the Fuji.
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