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Author Topic: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?  (Read 25537 times)

henrikfoto

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gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« on: November 05, 2017, 03:29:43 pm »

I am tempted to buy one of these medium format cameras. Mostly I want it to use my old
Hasselblad V and Contax 645 lenses. Manually with live view. My question is this:
Is the one camera really better than the other? Size and stylichness is not important to me.
Just functions and iq matters.

The lenses I hope to use is the Apo macro Planar Contax, 55 mm Contax, 35 mm Contax,
Hasselblad 100mm cfi, Hasselblad 180mm cfi, Hasselblad 250mm sa, Hasselblad 300 sa.
etc.

Henrik
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 03:33:56 pm by henrikfoto »
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hcubell

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2017, 05:24:47 pm »

I am tempted to buy one of these medium format cameras. Mostly I want it to use my old
Hasselblad V and Contax 645 lenses. Manually with live view. My question is this:
Is the one camera really better than the other? Size and stylichness is not important to me.
Just functions and iq matters.

The lenses I hope to use is the Apo macro Planar Contax, 55 mm Contax, 35 mm Contax,
Hasselblad 100mm cfi, Hasselblad 180mm cfi, Hasselblad 250mm sa, Hasselblad 300 sa.
etc.

Henrik

With the native lenses for both systems mounted on the GFX and the X1D, I personally don't think there is much to choose between the systems in terms of image quality. Both are very capable of superb results. The camera systems are different in terms of size, weight, ergonomics and "feel." Those things apparently don't matter to you. However, depending upon subject matter, the only realistic choice may be the GFX, given the lenses you want to use. The GFX has a focal plane shutter and should work well with those lenses and an adapter. With the X1D, you would have to use the electronic shutter, which may not work for you depending upon what you want to shoot. ES is not practical with hand holding or anything that moves.
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2017, 05:27:39 pm »

Thank you! That is very interesting and seems to be the chapest option too :)
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hubell

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2017, 06:26:32 pm »

Thank you! That is very interesting and seems to be the chapest option too :)

Yes, that's a nice side benefit. I personally chose the X1D over the GFX after trying both, but what was of critical importance to me is not important to you.

siddhaarta

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2017, 07:46:52 pm »

Also, the Contax 645 lenses are a little bit tricky to adapt, as they are controlled electronically.
 
The only existing adapter (Leica S not included), I know about, comes from "fringeradapter" and works with Fuji GFX only (AF and aperture control).

As regards V lenses, for Fuji (Fotodiox, Novoflex) and Hasselblad (Kipon), adapters are already available, even Hasselblad is developing an adapter for the X1D.

As regards quality: after testing both cameras with basically the same sensor, I concluded that the colors and noise performance are a bit different and I preferred the Hasselblad. But that depends a lot on the post-processing pipeline which I do not like so much for the Fuji. It's a shame that both camera-raw-files do not work with P1 software. 
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 07:56:02 pm by siddhaarta »
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JKevinScott

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 11:51:27 pm »

With the native lenses for both systems mounted on the GFX and the X1D, I personally don't think there is much to choose between the systems in terms of image quality. Both are very capable of superb results.

I have both cameras.  Totally agree with this assessment.
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 02:57:31 am »

The only existing adapter (Leica S not included), I know about, comes from "fringeradapter" and works with Fuji GFX only (AF and aperture control).

Thank you!  This is very important to me!

I hope that C1 will be usable in the future for the Fuji-files.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2017, 04:03:37 am »

Hi,

That is not probable. Phase One has a long tradition of not supporting competing MFD.

Best regards
Erik


The only existing adapter (Leica S not included), I know about, comes from "fringeradapter" and works with Fuji GFX only (AF and aperture control).

I hope that C1 will be usable in the future for the Fuji-files.
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Paul2660

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 07:41:00 am »

It's not entirely impossible now, two simple changes to the raw files (raf) and C1 works fine with the GFX files.   Only works on captured to card images, no tethering, probably ever due to the current P1 policy.

Paul Caldwell
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:38:59 am by Paul2660 »
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douglevy

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 10:32:27 am »

Paul - I tried that - with no built in profile I tried tons, the images looked like crap. Maybe I missed something?

Paul2660

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2017, 11:19:11 am »

If the process is done correct, the images will load with the C1 default profile for a IQ250 or 350 depending what you named them.   You also need to make sure the files are seen in C1 as a IQ back with a IQ back profile loaded.  If you don't leave a space between name, the files will load but will look like crap as you mention. 

PM me if you like. 

I do all the name changing on my Mac, with a batch tool.  You have to do the raf to dng first.  I use the Adobe dng converter for this, then change the names required.  I tried the Iridient raf to dng and did not like the way the files looked, however no problems with the adobe dng converter.

Paul Caldwell
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douglevy

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2017, 11:20:23 am »

Ah, I just converted to dng and tried the cmos IQ and Leaf profiles. It was a rental though, I didn't buy one, but this is good to know going forward.

Juanito

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2017, 06:32:36 pm »

I'd say test both cameras to see which you like better. The X1D is smaller and lighter than the Fuji so if you want a walk-around camera, it's probably the better choice. The smaller, sleeker size has allowed me to shoot MF in many cases where I would have otherwise shot small format. If you're shooting in studio or locked down on a tripod, then size won't matter so much. For me, the deciding factor was the leaf shutter in the Hasselblad. I need it to overpower sunlight. If neither size nor shutter is a concern, the I'd probably go with Fuji. Their customer service is way more responsive than Hasselblad as far as I can tell. A Hasselblad repair can take months while they send your camera on a slow boat to Sweden.

pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2017, 07:08:09 pm »

same sensor, cameras could not be more different..."hasselblad is the gem, fuji the workhorse" whatever that means....IQ should be pretty much the same, difference is probably more down to lenses used....
if you want to use any other lenses then the original system lenses, GFX really is the only way to go....X1D can now adapt 3rd party lenses but e shutter is more or less useless on both cameras because of sensor read out time....so any kind of movement (within the frame or with camera) brings "interesting and artistic" shots....
biggest drawback on the GFX could be considered rear shutter because of limited flash sync speed (compared to X1D lens shutter) but it in turn allows to use pretty much any lens....there is also very well documented HSS, HS....
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Paul2660

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2017, 10:31:24 pm »

Could not disagree more on the E shutter on the GFX.  I personally use it all the time outdoors in windy conditions.  It's just like the E shutter on the IQ3100.  You have to be on a tripod for sure as any movement by the photographer will be easily seen, but moving subject matter unless the winds are blowing 20mph or faster are fine.  You can't use it on a moving person, or car or any object moving at a high rate of speed across the entire sensor.  Leaves OK I guess as they are individually not taking up a lot of sensor space.

E Shutter on both cameras and now on the D850 work all about the same IMO.  Not for hand holding, but on tripod out outdoor conditions, fine.

I guess since you have two varied opinions, you will need to demo both cameras to see, but for me the E shutter is used daily.

Paul Caldwell
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pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 11:00:16 pm »

Could not disagree more on the E shutter on the GFX.  I personally use it all the time outdoors in windy conditions.  It's just like the E shutter on the IQ3100.  You have to be on a tripod for sure as any movement by the photographer will be easily seen, but moving subject matter unless the winds are blowing 20mph or faster are fine.  You can't use it on a moving person, or car or any object moving at a high rate of speed across the entire sensor.  Leaves OK I guess as they are individually not taking up a lot of sensor space.

E Shutter on both cameras and now on the D850 work all about the same IMO.  Not for hand holding, but on tripod out outdoor conditions, fine.

I guess since you have two varied opinions, you will need to demo both cameras to see, but for me the E shutter is used daily.

Paul Caldwell

read out time is 1/4? sec for both cameras
not sure when the last time was that i have used a shutter speed that slow.....

i use the e shutter on the A7RII all the time at any speed.....not sure what read out time is but i haven't had any issues.....people, moving objects, handheld......

i never said that e shutter isn't useable on the X1D or GFX but to me being limited to 1/4 sec shutter is un workable....others might be fine, either way it needs to be pointed out....
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 11:21:08 pm »

Hi,

E-shutter on the IQ3100MP is even much slower, but many photographers still feel it is beneficial. It probably works well for small objects not moving very fast.

The GFX does have electronic first curtain and that makes it more general use.

If you make significant use of third party lenses, like T&S or technical cameras, the GFX would probably make a lot of sense.

A significant number of new lenses for the X1D are promised for 2018. That indicates that Hasselblad is really serious about the X-system.

It may also indicate a bit that mirrorless is where the future of MFD is.

Which one is better? That would be hard to say. Sensor is essentially same. It seems that Fujifilm is putting a lot of design effort in the GFX lenses. Hasselblad publishes real world MTF data for the X-lenses and last time I checked they were very good.

It may be that it matters little which one is better. They are probably very good and it takes a lot of care to get maximum performance from either. An don't forget, diffraction limit is always around and it is essentially the same for any lens on the planet.

Best regards
Erik

Could not disagree more on the E shutter on the GFX.  I personally use it all the time outdoors in windy conditions.  It's just like the E shutter on the IQ3100.  You have to be on a tripod for sure as any movement by the photographer will be easily seen, but moving subject matter unless the winds are blowing 20mph or faster are fine.  You can't use it on a moving person, or car or any object moving at a high rate of speed across the entire sensor.  Leaves OK I guess as they are individually not taking up a lot of sensor space.

E Shutter on both cameras and now on the D850 work all about the same IMO.  Not for hand holding, but on tripod out outdoor conditions, fine.

I guess since you have two varied opinions, you will need to demo both cameras to see, but for me the E shutter is used daily.

Paul Caldwell
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 06:39:07 am »

I think the electronic shutter is very interesting for macrowork and most nature photography etc.

Will the readout-time likely be shorter after later opdates to the firmware?

Has any of you used Phase, Hasselblad or Contax 645 lenses on the Fuji with adapters?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 07:54:41 am »

I think the electronic shutter is very interesting for macrowork and most nature photography etc.

Will the readout-time likely be shorter after later opdates to the firmware?

This would be very surprising, I understand this is a physical characteristic of the sensor.

Cheers,
Bernard

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 09:41:21 am »

So, would this mean that with the constant increase in megapixels, we are not going to get a true global shutter anytime soon?
Eduardo


This would be very surprising, I understand this is a physical characteristic of the sensor.

Cheers,
Bernard
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