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Author Topic: Without Prejudice 3  (Read 356243 times)

petermfiore

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #900 on: January 07, 2018, 08:14:39 am »

Snooping into another window the other day:
Rob
Rob,

Bittersweet memories...

Peter

Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #901 on: January 07, 2018, 09:03:07 am »

Rob,

Bittersweet memories...

Peter

Exactly! I remember that when I was a kid there were several similar bits of luggage in the loft; when I was sent off to boarding school I was accompanied by one of those trunks made of wooden ribs and stiff, reddish/brown canvas (?) sections and brass corners that survived repeated trips on Indian trains and even made it to Britain where, for a while, it occupied space in my own loft... Not for flying, but very good for most other ways of transport except the car! I think Norman Parkinson used one in some pictures, as he would, wouldn't he? A couple of nights ago I rewatched the Beeb video they made after his death; as he said, he was the guv'nor.

Rob
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 04:41:40 pm by Rob C »
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armand

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #902 on: January 07, 2018, 03:34:52 pm »

Into the light

Telecaster

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #903 on: January 07, 2018, 06:55:05 pm »

"Learn Chinese"

-Dave-
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armand

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #904 on: January 07, 2018, 10:05:37 pm »

.

GrahamBy

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #905 on: January 08, 2018, 05:52:55 am »

A couple of chaps in the street...
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petermfiore

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #906 on: January 08, 2018, 10:31:19 am »

Departure...

Peter

Bruce Cox

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #907 on: January 08, 2018, 10:52:07 am »

Departure...

Peter

I suggest the longer title:  Departure in Light from Three Windows

Your scene reminds me of...

Bruce
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Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #908 on: January 08, 2018, 12:40:59 pm »

Departure...

Peter

Like the atmosphere and balance of emotions!

David Hamilton would have given you his vote too...

:-;

Richowens

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #909 on: January 09, 2018, 12:29:19 am »



 Another face, another time
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GrahamBy

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #910 on: January 09, 2018, 08:35:54 am »

A coffee (or three)
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petermfiore

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #911 on: January 09, 2018, 12:41:44 pm »

75 minuets...

Peter

RSL

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #912 on: January 09, 2018, 12:52:29 pm »

Hi Peter, Looks as if I'm looking out of a bomb bay from about 35,000 feet.
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GrahamBy

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #913 on: January 10, 2018, 04:17:12 am »

You're doing this on purpose

Of course.

Here's a recent shot of she whose knees you appreciated...
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Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #914 on: January 10, 2018, 05:07:25 am »

Enigmatic or ambiguous? Or both?

At thumbnail size, I mistook that side-lit thumb for something quite else. Is that a tap I see before me, denoting the room of baths - or perhaps of a kitcken, or be it the head of a little tripod? And if so, is it a case of Alice aforethought or of seizing the moment? Is that the hand of man or a little self-help? That's what photography should be about: anything but the obvious! And the light was rather helpful too. France agrees with you.

And regarding the women in black; Catherine Deneuve, at 74 (give or take!) has just said that it all smacks of puritanism and hatred of men... now that's bravery, flying in the face of the sisters! But then, she earned her eff-off money decades ago.

IMO, it's neither: I think that it's simply grandstanding, and latching on to something that might garner more likes in the social media that rules these lives. It will play very well with all the many dispossesed, those no-chancers who litter the malls and buy tickets to suspension, and it might even translate into more publicity (which it has) and possibly a better base from which their agents to negotiate fees. Either way, most women know they look better in black, and it does prevent some of the total fashion disasters that such festivals sponsor.

As I have mentioned before, I have never known a female who didn't know the power of her own mind and her place within her society. There is a huge difference between people who have that/an ellusive something that everybody wants a piece of, and those people who have absolutely nothing anyone wants. It is something that hits both the sexes (all of them, if I must be seen to be inclusive) and if anything, the battle for supremacy is within the sexes, not between (or amongst) them. The other battles have always been fought and always will; right until the day when gender ceases to mean anything and the species stops recreating itself. Survival and achievement of goals depends upon pragmatism, and the acceptance of human nature and our willingness or otherwise to live within the group. It's about the heat in the kitchen. If we don't like it, that hermitage awaits. Or the barroom and the jukebox (love those blue notes!) and the honky tonk angels.

Good grief! It's eleven o'clock and I haven't even given a thought to the carrots!

Rob

GrahamBy

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #915 on: January 10, 2018, 07:20:43 am »

It's been some time since Catherine D was a young woman walking unescorted across the public places of a large French city: i've seen the harassment happen in front of me, and it's appalling:
"Oh, you're so beautiful, can I have your phone number?"
"Oh well F-off then, slut".

With a slap to the face of the woman as well, in one recently recorded case.

I've seen screen shots of e-discussions between model friends and supposed photographers... that basically follow the same lines.
My jaundiced opinion is that as the rich-poor gap gets bigger, there is a more "anything goes" attitude to gaining success, however that's defined. It applies equally to raising animals as though they are machines, or ripping off everyone you deal with, or pouring alcohol into young models to disinhibit them, or feeding drugs to desperately ambitious young athletes.

It's not an issue for someone like Kate Moss, who has the money and the power and can happily decide to flash whatever bits of her body she cares... it's the young ones who aren't at peace with themselves and who are probably too insecure to be in the business, but are desperate to succeed because of the marketing of the dream. It's certainly a fault on both sides, but I'd like to think a 50 yo photographer has a certain responsibility of care toward 20 yo models... regardless of gender.

Then you see the bitterness Marie Helvin seems to still harbour for Bailey... human jealousy etc etc. Bof, as they say around here.
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petermfiore

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #916 on: January 10, 2018, 07:32:28 am »

Hi Peter, Looks as if I'm looking out of a bomb bay from about 35,000 feet.

Hi Russ,

Maybe, I was......just kidding. Direct Sunlight pouring in and a cool blue sky reflection through a south facing window.

Peter

RSL

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #917 on: January 10, 2018, 08:06:17 am »

It's an interesting image no matter how you approach it.
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Rob C

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #918 on: January 10, 2018, 09:18:24 am »

It's been some time since Catherine D was a young woman walking unescorted across the public places of a large French city: i've seen the harassment happen in front of me, and it's appalling:
"Oh, you're so beautiful, can I have your phone number?"
"Oh well F-off then, slut".

With a slap to the face of the woman as well, in one recently recorded case.

I've seen screen shots of e-discussions between model friends and supposed photographers... that basically follow the same lines.
My jaundiced opinion is that as the rich-poor gap gets bigger, there is a more "anything goes" attitude to gaining success, however that's defined. It applies equally to raising animals as though they are machines, or ripping off everyone you deal with, or pouring alcohol into young models to disinhibit them, or feeding drugs to desperately ambitious young athletes.

It's not an issue for someone like Kate Moss, who has the money and the power and can happily decide to flash whatever bits of her body she cares... it's the young ones who aren't at peace with themselves and who are probably too insecure to be in the business, but are desperate to succeed because of the marketing of the dream. It's certainly a fault on both sides, but I'd like to think a 50 yo photographer has a certain responsibility of care toward 20 yo models... regardless of gender.

Then you see the bitterness Marie Helvin seems to still harbour for Bailey... human jealousy etc etc. Bof, as they say around here.

Bof! indeed, as my daughter has been wont to say ever after her uni year in France! I often wondered where that came from, as it wasn't all that prevalent in Scotland at the time; probably still isn't, but I can't say.

But yes, your example of the lone woman in the city (probably even more at risk in the sticks!) isn't something of which to be proud, but it's hardly anything new. The difference seems to be that where nobody thought much of it, or even expected it to be different, the zeitgeist has suddenly made it a falsely new issue, and thus the young who are exposed to it - it nearly always is the young, because it is all about obvious sexual attraction (though it is now fashionable to think of it as much in terms of power, for goodness sake!) think it is a new deal, and that by shouting out loud things will change. They will not. Men change no more than do women; only socially acceptable habits appear to change, but underneath the public face, life continues as ever. It has to, or it finishes.

Harking back to the 50s, I was no more likely to walk around the less salubrious areas of Glasgow than I would be today; perhaps the old razors have gone, but with the popular craze for bikes, I'm sure the lengths of chain have returned with a vengeance, if they had ever vanished. Of course things such as rape and physical harm must be prevented and punished, but we step a little too fast when we conflate all of that with the wolf whistle from atop some scaffolding; my wife used to work in a laboratory and she used to be amused at the reactions when she (you see? labs were open to both genders, it depended on ability if you got in or not) or any of the other female chemists would need to go into the works. The catcalls and "appreciation" were all good-natured and nobody took offence or intended it; as I say, I think this has been soured by political correctness distorting all transgender (cross-gender?) relationships. I remember my neighbour, in her seventies, remarking some years ago that if nobody gave you a whistle or pinched your ass, you believed you were slipping... There is an enormous gulf between assault and light public applause - and as the wolf whistle is often given to any female, it is probably if she doesn't get it that doubts creep in, exactly as they will from gazing at videos of trainers or dancers doing workouts and lying that yes, you too can look as do I if you but buy this, that or the other machine or diet deal. Bullshit; people are what they are through the luck of the draw, and helped not a little by loving, responsible and caring parents who cook good food and keep you out of the fast food joints. If there is a medical condition, that is something entirely different.

I can't speak for other snappers, but I never worked in a culture where you got your models and/or yourself drunk on the job. Why would you imagine that made life better? If anything, it would make you both incompetent. That may be the case within the ethos of the "amateur model and photographer" who hires her or picks her up somewhere, but as all my models came from agencies, all the girls knew how many eggs made an omelette. Now, of course there are and will continue to be photographers who take advantage of the relationship, as docs and nurses, pilots and stewardesses (you interact with people types you meet every day) might well do, for all I know; it's just sex appeal appealing yet again. It's up to the model if she wants to play that game or not; models are the strongest, most resilient creatures who face rejection at a casting every day, accept that somebody else suits the gig better, and they simply move along to the next casting they have been invited to attend. The invitation is its own reward on a basic level, because it indicates you are valuable; if you fail and another gets the gig, c'est la vie.

Kate Moss was not always a millionairess. Cocaine chick was flavour of the day - Corrine Day was big at the time, and worked with Moss a lot... there were many drug casualties, the most notable perhaps being poor Gia, a girl who had everything throwing it all away on dust.

But yes, times change. Mostly, a girl would come up to the studio, do her thing, I'd sign her agency slip and she'd be on her way. We were seldom stuck with other people around because the girls all knew how to do their make up themselves, and better yet, the day of the present-and-lurking art director and client had not arrived on my parish. Today, though I trust myself and know my abilities as well as those that age and health have stolen, I don't think I'd work that way again. This came to me after the same woman who had complained about political correctness stopping her from getting whistles, and also my own daughter, told me that I would be insane to work alone with a woman again. I think that may illustrate part of the mess that the pc brigade has created for everybody, even probably harmless old buggers such as I.

What a shame that attempts to improve the natural order have only made it worse.

Thought it worth adding: I have known models who hunt scalps, too. Hunting 'em is not exclusively a male thing.

;-)

Rob
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 11:02:24 am by Rob C »
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KLaban

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Re: Without Prejudice 3
« Reply #919 on: January 10, 2018, 11:22:33 am »

Nothing new of course about abuse and the Weinstein or subsequent scandals. Monroe famously said she spent much of her early career on her knees. Even the Church - or should that be particularly the Church - had much to answer for. Abuse throughout society was rife, still is, but hopefully women people today are more informed, can recognise it for what it is and will be less inclined to perpetuate or tolerate the behaviour.

If that's being politically correct then bring it on.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 12:23:10 pm by KLaban »
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