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Author Topic: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI  (Read 59667 times)

Domenico

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #120 on: January 08, 2017, 05:24:01 am »

To better reply to this type of "information"

my decision was to cancel the automatic subscription to LULA, the same articles and reports are present on photorumors.com,
no reason to pay for such type of suppositions.

Happy New Year !

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Christopher

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #121 on: January 08, 2017, 05:26:47 am »

Great for you. I am still happy Kevin posted it. I don't care about the tone. I never did. I care only about the information.

Here, if it weren't true, Hasselblad failed once again gloriously in their communications.


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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #122 on: January 08, 2017, 10:17:00 am »

Hi,

My impression is that the tone here is quite cultivated. There are some rules for acceptable behaviour and some of those who has broken the rules are no longer on LuLa. On the other hand I don't think LuLa ever intended to have censorship and I don't think Kevin or Chris have the intention to check each and every posting.

I hope that Bernard will be back and tells us all about his experience with the Hasselblad H6D.

Best regards
Erik

I didn't read Bernard to say he was taking a break from LuLa because of the current controversy; people can and do become a little fed up with running essentially the same conversation over and over again, and even though specific people can wind one up to the point where one either ignores them or just says sod off, I'm done with this crap, exactly as has happened to me a few times, there is the other point to make, and it's this: LuLa takes up a lot of time if you contribute often and with some deeper interest in photography itself, not simply as a gear nerd. For me, that time can sometimes be better spent making pictures or just walking and realising how damned fortunate one is to be where one is, free from city fumes, city crime and city people who can be a pain in the proverbial ass if they come on with the superior bit. Breaks from people are often as good as holidays.

The basic difference bertween Michael and Kevin might have been this: Michael was apt to remind one that, effectively, we were all sitting in his parlour, and we had damned well better behave like that, and if not, we'd be kicked the hell out. Maybe Kevin is too gentle? The site is his, not ours, and I'm surprised that seems to be going forgotten. Okay, there is now a financial incentive to keep readers at almost all costs (?) but politeness should not be automatically excluded because somebody pays a few bucks a year and thus feels entitled. There are ways of showing dissent and there are ways of being downright rude; they are not the same thing.

Rob C
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Erik Kaffehr
 

landscapephoto

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30 thousands X1D ordered????
« Reply #123 on: January 08, 2017, 10:45:58 am »

To add an inkling of potentially factual info and some perspective, another rumour site this morning reports that ' According to Hasselblad UK Manager they received 30,000 worldwide pre-orders, expecting only 3,000, for the X1D"

If that's the case, then I'm not surprised that they had difficulty ramping up production.

If that number is true, or even remotely true, it changes a lot of things. Basically, it means that Hasselblad invented a new market.

The number of MF cameras sold globally was estimated to be around 6000 by Leica in 2003: this is the original interview:

There are no industry-wide figures, but we think the core medium format market is roughly 6000 units per year – worldwide, for all brands. We are not yet the market leader (I estimate Phase One to have 40-45% market share), but we already have 20% share – and this is only after 3 years after introduction.

Basically, in 2013, Hasselblad was selling about 2000-3000 H4D cameras a year. That is also consistent with their published revenue. Now, what this rumour is telling is that:
1: Hasselblad was expecting to double their market share with the X1D (3000 units planned)
2: Hasselblad is actually expanding their market 10 times (30000 units ordered!).

I find this hard to believe but if it is true it will change a lot of things. Basically, the MF market was changed overnight. It also sheds a completely different light on the DJI merger.
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Domenico

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #124 on: January 08, 2017, 10:56:35 am »

So so so,  reading this I understand what kind of people are talking in this forum.

Here, if it weren't true, Hasselblad failed once again gloriously in their communications.

Did Hasselblad has hurt you when you were young ?
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #125 on: January 08, 2017, 11:05:49 am »

Hi,

In that case they may have found a clondyke… but it will be a long wait for a lot of buyers.

Estimates for all the MFD market used to around 10 000 cameras a year.

Best regards
Erik


To add an inkling of potentially factual info and some perspective, another rumour site this morning reports that ' According to Hasselblad UK Manager they received 30,000 worldwide pre-orders, expecting only 3,000, for the X1D"

If that's the case, then I'm not surprised that they had difficulty ramping up production.
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mecrox

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Re: 30 thousands X1D ordered????
« Reply #126 on: January 08, 2017, 12:13:08 pm »


Basically, in 2013, Hasselblad was selling about 2000-3000 H4D cameras a year. That is also consistent with their published revenue. Now, what this rumour is telling is that:
1: Hasselblad was expecting to double their market share with the X1D (3000 units planned)
2: Hasselblad is actually expanding their market 10 times (30000 units ordered!).


How many of those orders were firm, as distinct from commitment-free and perhaps cost-free "pre-orders" of the Internet kind? Of course one would want Hasselblad to sell as many cameras as possible and do well, but these days it must be hard for companies to work out how much of all the interest and general hype is really going to translate into solid sales.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 06:36:03 pm by mecrox »
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Manoli

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #127 on: January 08, 2017, 12:49:29 pm »

In that case they may have found a clondyke…

With so little verifiable information available, I'm not sure I'd go around calling anyone a clondyke - yet. But it's starting to paint an entirely different picture to the sensationalist, 'doom & gloom'  tone of the original article.

The market may have been 6 or 10,000 units a year, but 
(a) I doubt it was that big recently - mainly due to price.
(b) There's a market shift, whereas EU and the USA were the largest MF (read: Leica) cllent base, it's now the Far East.
(c) That a new 'class' of camera, at a substantially lower price point, has created havoc with previous 'supply & demand' curves.

As a rough guide, a 2-lens 50MP MF camera will now cost around US$15,000. When Fuji hit the market, perhaps another 30% lower again. How much was it at at the beginning of the year , (Pentax excluded)  - approximately double? A most basic PhaseOne XF IQ150 kit (single 80mm lens) was US$33,000 , an XF IQ350 US$ 41,000 and later a H6D50C around US$29,000 (?) - all excluding tax.

..  but these days it must be hard for companies to work how much [...] is really going to translate into solid sales.

That's the question, not just for Hasselblad but also Fujifilm.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #128 on: January 08, 2017, 01:13:41 pm »

I got roundly booed for my article "Goodbye Full-Frame Cameras" (some time ago) on a couple of sites, and it was a bit tongue-in-check, but I really do believe that the low-price MF mirrorless cameras are not just a flash in a pan, but a harbinger of the future, at least for me. I will hang on to my Nikon D810 (and other cameras), and even opt for the D810 replacement when it ever emerges, but I see no reason why the X1D, the GFX, and more to come (I imagine) will not carve out a serious niche at a price people are willing to meet. Without one in hand, it meets my immediate needs, and I have tired of waiting for Nikon to pony up a larger Mpx DSLR.
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Christopher

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #129 on: January 08, 2017, 01:57:21 pm »

So so so,  reading this I understand what kind of people are talking in this forum.

Did Hasselblad has hurt you when you were young ?


Yes they really did. I never quite got over it.


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Christopher Hauser
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Roger Jupiter

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #130 on: January 08, 2017, 06:02:37 pm »

I must misunderstand HB s reported numbers .  All of these I picked up from this thread and others ...would be helpful just to gain perspective .  Please jump in and correct me.

Sales are about $30M a year .

They expected 3000 orders for the X1D .

A full kit at retail of the X1d is about $15,000.  A wholesale (reported amount for Hb as a sale ) would be about $10,000 per kit . 

So 3000 orders would be $30M in sales ?  30,000 orders would be $300M . 

the x1d is hand made in sweden by a workforce that has been making primarily H bodies .  The X1d requires establishment of a new production process to handle the increased volume and product differences. 

No gloom and doom here ..just fact checking a few comments . 



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chrisschmidphoto

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #131 on: January 08, 2017, 07:55:45 pm »

Hi Kevin

I'm not only surprised, but quite disappointed by your article. Why are you engaging in spreading rumors, as if you were a boulevard journalist? Why don't you let the involved companies announce the possible deal themselves?

I'd be much more interested in the review on the X1D you promised last year. Now that would be valuable information to photographers. Your piece on the possible Hasselbald/DJJ deal is definitely not. As a matter of fact, it sounds as if you took offence by Hasselblad's CEO NOT sharing that information with you personally.

Regards,
Chris
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chrisschmidphoto

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #132 on: January 08, 2017, 10:39:33 pm »

To better reply to this type of "information"

my decision was to cancel the automatic subscription to LULA, the same articles and reports are present on photorumors.com,
no reason to pay for such type of suppositions.

Happy New Year !

Well, after some consideration, I cancelled my annual payment to LuLa as well. I will not support 'journalism' of this sort.
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landscapephoto

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #133 on: January 09, 2017, 03:00:25 am »

I must misunderstand HB s reported numbers .  All of these I picked up from this thread and others ...would be helpful just to gain perspective .  Please jump in and correct me.

Sales are about $30M a year .

They expected 3000 orders for the X1D .

A full kit at retail of the X1d is about $15,000.  A wholesale (reported amount for Hb as a sale ) would be about $10,000 per kit . 

So 3000 orders would be $30M in sales ?  30,000 orders would be $300M . 

the x1d is hand made in sweden by a workforce that has been making primarily H bodies .  The X1d requires establishment of a new production process to handle the increased volume and product differences. 

No gloom and doom here ..just fact checking a few comments .

Yes, these figures seem about right (and consistent with the numbers reported before the X1D was announced).
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landscapephoto

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #134 on: January 09, 2017, 03:05:26 am »

Well, after some consideration, I cancelled my annual payment to LuLa as well. I will not support 'journalism' of this sort.

There is something else which is implied by the reported number of 30000 ordered units: if that number is true, then this forum and the associated articles have become irrelevant. Lula may have been close to capture the audience of the majority of the MF users (especially tech cams users) in the USA at the time when worldwide MF annual sales were around 6000 units a year. But the majority of the 30000 users did not come from lula, the forum does not have that many active members.

The figures of 30000 units changes everything.
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Rob C

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #135 on: January 09, 2017, 05:01:06 am »

"The figures of 30000 units changes everything."

Well it sure does. What with a rash of aggressive posts from several low-posting writers suddenly breaking through the woodwork and making declarations of war on LuLa, I'm lead to suspect that one of the changes referred to above is that a fresh conspiracy is being hatched! It will be fascinating to see how that pans out. Will the Rollei people suddenly break their silence and join ranks with Exakta and Bronica in fresh accusations of malice aforethought? Is Kodak planning a lawsuit? Will Santa panic and fill every sock with a complete kit of Hassy stuff in the model of your desires and/or fantasies?

Furthermore, and worst of all, after all these years of visiting LuLa and adding my couple of cents-worth most days, I'm ashamed not to have realised that its sole raison d'être all along has been to foster sales of MF cameras! Silly me - to think I'd imagined it to be about talking and taking snaps, about considering the work of photographers one admires, looking at fellow snapper's images... oh dear, what a fool I've been all this long while! Life can never be the same - I feel cheated! I want my years back! I want a free Brand X! Never mind that I was taught how to calibrate my monitors, forget that I picked up a lot of information about doing things with Photoshop; that counts for nothing, because what counts is that the owner of this dreadful site has not unfailingly kissed the right ass! Opinion on which may be the right ass will inevitably vary from furious scribe to enraged scribe, and certainly ensure this poor owner will have to spend a lot of contrite time on his knees if he's to keep the fans happy! On the other hand, as his predecessor had sometimes remarked, and I paraphrase: "I may just close the place down and get on with my life without the agro."  I'm sure it's a doable option. Which I hope he isn't tempted to pursue. Geez, what would I do all day? Which leads me to wonder: in whose interests would such an event be?

For my part, the sooner the self-righteous moaners go, the better! I shall grieve them in private silence.

Rob C

mecrox

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #136 on: January 09, 2017, 05:40:04 am »

There is something else which is implied by the reported number of 30000 ordered units: if that number is true, then this forum and the associated articles have become irrelevant. Lula may have been close to capture the audience of the majority of the MF users (especially tech cams users) in the USA at the time when worldwide MF annual sales were around 6000 units a year. But the majority of the 30000 users did not come from lula, the forum does not have that many active members.

The figures of 30000 units changes everything.

It all comes across as a storm in a teacup. The general assumption (right or wrong) seems to be that Hasselblad need some fresh investment because they have come up with a cracking product which promises to be a hit. Good for them. The shock horror seems to be that the fresh funds are coming from a Chinese company well outside the stuffy realms of the traditional camera industry. Well good for that company too. With any luck they will provide a high-energy shot in the arm and God knows the traditional camera industry needs a few of those, having proved almost incapable of reforming itself. In my view, the figure of "30,000 units" is a red herring. Unless Hasselblad were to issue an audited figure, which they never will, we have no idea whether that figure is even slightly accurate and will translate into real sales. Given the level of hype and commitment-free pre-ordering that goes on across the internet, in truth it is very hard to believe that the figure is accurate at all. Even then, a portion of the alleged pre-orders may well be profiteers anticipating a shortage who intend to resell at above the asking price the next day. But even if the figure is wildly inaccurate, little is changed: there's a big hit in the offing, fresh funds are needed to produce it, and new investment has been secured. Sounds good news all round, TBH. FWIW, Ming Thein who is a Hasselblad ambassador has posted an article about the story on his blog.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 07:29:13 am by mecrox »
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #137 on: January 09, 2017, 07:03:32 am »

The 30,000 figure is way far from being accurate so put that one to sleep.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #138 on: January 09, 2017, 07:17:09 am »

This whole discussion has to be "funny." Otherwise, it's not. I can't help it, but our exchange here reminds me of standing in a long line for, say, a football game, killing time, talking all out of our heads about anything we can think to say. At least, as someone with an order in since last summer, there is little else I can do. So I am telling myself to lighten up, ratchet the reactions down, and try to enjoy the show. 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #139 on: January 09, 2017, 07:52:34 am »

Could be much worse!
Russian Krasnogorsky Zavod camera factory has been contemplating an outright purchase of Hasselblad, redesign it with a built-in extra sensitive mike and a long-range transmitter, and sell millions of units under a Zenitblad product label. But after a decade-long preparation they decided to go after another low-volume producer, naming the new camera Laika, honouring their first cosmonaut.

New luxury camera

A declassified report was released to the public on Friday, asserting that Vladimir Putin ordered the Hasselblad leak operation to get Lula compromised. And it's working - two disgruntled Lula subscribers already cancelled their subscriptions in mid term and thus reduced Lula 2017 operating revenue by at least ten dollars.

More info about Laika
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 08:40:44 am by LesPalenik »
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