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Author Topic: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)  (Read 56529 times)

Doug Gray

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2016, 12:48:02 pm »

There have been a few reports this is affecting windows 10 x64 as well. I was concerned the "trick" of assigning the printer profile to an untagged target and printing it as a way of avoiding APU would be affected as I use this to make profiles on odd sized, small paper which can't be set directly using I1Profiler.

Continues to work fine. I get the same readings with APU as with PS 2015.5 on a Canon 9500 II. This would also have shown color shifts from this bug if it existed in the Windows version.
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RMW

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2016, 02:35:01 pm »

For what it's worth: Recent communication with Adobe Tech support.



Richard Waller: Many photographers with the latest version of PS find a problem with printing. Prints come out dark and the blues show banding. Please tell me how Adobe is addressing this problem and when we will get a fix.
Richard Waller: There's a long discussion of this issue on Adobe Forums.
Shikhar Jaiswal: Yes, there is some issue
Shikhar Jaiswal: Let me check the latest update on that
Richard Waller: thank you.
Shikhar Jaiswal: Please try pressing Space bar before going to File>Print and check if you are still getting the issue
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to waller.richard@gmail.com at the end of your chat. 
Richard Waller: I will try that. Thank you very much.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2016, 02:53:43 pm »

Well Richard, what is it worth? Did you try it? Did it do anything? And he didn't explain the logic of it?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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RMW

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #103 on: July 13, 2016, 04:27:52 pm »

Hi Mark,
I have not tried it yet.
Am leaving town today (NOLA) for a little while.
Seems kinda farfetched, but who knows?
Will check it out when I return.
Wish Adobe would make you and Andrew and some other LuLa stalwarts their paid advisors.
Richard
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2016, 05:23:01 pm »

Hi Mark,
I have not tried it yet.
Am leaving town today (NOLA) for a little while.
Seems kinda farfetched, but who knows?
Will check it out when I return.
Wish Adobe would make you and Andrew and some other LuLa stalwarts their paid advisors.
Richard

Thanks for the confidence Richard, but I am certain there is no shortage of internal talent in Adobe that could sleuth this issue and fix it. The main problems in that company are at another level and that is something they themselves need to come to grips with. Have a great holiday! And once you are back and have pushed the space-bar, let us know the outcome - like you I think it weird.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Wayne Fox

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #105 on: July 13, 2016, 10:16:27 pm »

Unfortunately Adobe has a history of not fixing things they break with a new release until the next release.  It has been pretty rare for them to just simply fix one issue and then patch.  Twice they have broken the ability to do pano merges in PS, and both times the "fix" was something that happened in the normal course of releasing a new version several months later.  The issue with using droplets wasn't addressed until the next release.  Of course the famous import interface issue wasn't addressed very quickly either.

Hopefully they would consider this a serious enough problem, but since the issue manifests itself in such a subtle way I'm not sure enough users will complain.  This issue to me is serious enough they should push a fix out ASAP, but guessing we'll have to stay with 2015.5.1 for a couple of months.

Hope I'm wrong.  2015.6 seemed more responsive with many functions for me.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #106 on: July 14, 2016, 07:00:51 am »

Unfortunately Adobe has a history of not fixing things they break with a new release until the next release.  It has been pretty rare for them to just simply fix one issue and then patch.  Twice they have broken the ability to do pano merges in PS, and both times the "fix" was something that happened in the normal course of releasing a new version several months later.  The issue with using droplets wasn't addressed until the next release.  Of course the famous import interface issue wasn't addressed very quickly either.

Hopefully they would consider this a serious enough problem, but since the issue manifests itself in such a subtle way I'm not sure enough users will complain.  This issue to me is serious enough they should push a fix out ASAP, but guessing we'll have to stay with 2015.5.1 for a couple of months.

Hope I'm wrong.  2015.6 seemed more responsive with many functions for me.

Hi Wayne, the presentation of the issue is not at all subtle when one goes about the technical diagnosis with some simple procedures and arithmetic. It is quite stark seen through the numbers, though admittedly can be somewhat less so on paper, depending on the photo. Most of the complaints came from people who immediately noticed a visible deterioration of print quality. Users are complaining. I agree with you that it is a pretty fundamental problem, and as such there should be no hesitation to issue a fix as soon as they actually fix it. One of the whole purposes of the CC approach was to give them flexibility to issue updates, rather than being glued to a fixed timetable. That was part of the ""CC promise" if I can put it that way. So now is the time for them to respect their own previous commitments. Part of the delay we're seeing is the initial period of denial; I don't know how long that lasted, or even whether it is over; but by now they should know they own this issue and need to fix it. When that realization dawns, time will be needed to analyze where the code went wrong, repair it, and THIS TIME quality-assure it every which way, then prepare the release. I don't know how much time all that will require.

Adobe, of course, are being completely unhelpful by not having uttered a word about it since their initial rubbish blaming Epson drivers. Some people are simply irate, while others have been pressing hard on this matter, because of its importance; but you may well be right that perhaps a larger groundswell of dissatisfaction will be necessary to shake them into more responsiveness. We seem to be suffering from a corporate ethos where pride of workmanship takes a back seat to the bottom line and reputational risk means little. Somehow or other that needs to change, and the only effective vehicle I know of is real competition. Where is it, all factors considered?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Chris_Brown

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #107 on: July 14, 2016, 01:39:16 pm »

This debacle makes me wonder if the developers at Adobe ever bother to make prints as part of their beta testing.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2016, 01:57:47 pm »

For what it's worth: Recent communication with Adobe Tech support.
Shikhar Jaiswal: Please try pressing Space bar before going to File>Print and check if you are still getting the issue

That sounds like a low voltage USB connect issue not pinging or updating API communications with the printer driver and/or OS. It's sort of like Fonzi on "Happy Days" sitcom slapping the coin operated jukebox to get it to play without inserting a coin.

I notice when I don't print for a long time on my Epson NX330 "All In One" I get an insert paper warning when I already have paper loaded. It takes several tries to get the low voltage signal to wake up both the hardware on my computer and printer to talk to each other through software.

Just speculation though, but that keyboard spacebar suggestion seems to indicate that may be the issue.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 02:00:58 pm by Tim Lookingbill »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2016, 02:07:54 pm »

The scope and etiology of this problem do not suggest this is plausible. It's interesting how my computer and printer communicate just fine with both versions of Photoshop, but the penultimate version produces pretty accurate colour and the new one doesn't - repeatedly and sytematically.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2016, 02:37:16 pm »

Just got a new P800 (Nice), ran some tests today. It's not the darn print driver.
Here's the baseline: Photoshop CS6 versus Lightroom 5. Largest dE's sorted (max a bit over 1). Targets didn't dry over night. I'm therefore fine with these differences.
And then the difference between Photoshop 6 versus CC 2015. Huge differences in blues.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #111 on: July 14, 2016, 02:46:38 pm »

Good demo; so just for added clarity, you are showing here that comparing two previous versions of LR and PS for which CM worked properly, the dE readings are very low - well within the acceptable range for the whole list; however, when comparing a previous version of LR with the current version of PSCC, the blues in particular get whacked. Going about in a somewhat different manner, but same idea, my results are consistent with your results and indeed have nothing whatsoever to do with the Epson driver, but everything to do with the version of Adobe software.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #112 on: July 14, 2016, 02:48:45 pm »

Good demo; so just for added clarity, you are showing here that comparing two previous versions of LR and PS for which CM worked properly, the dE readings are very low - well within the acceptable range for the whole list; however, when comparing a previous version of LR with the current version of PSCC, the blues in particular get whacked.
Yes. Similar on the 3880 too. It's not going to show up for a lot of users depending on the image too. I see it visually in a Granger Rainbow or a blue gradient.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2016, 02:51:43 pm »

Yes. Similar on the 3880 too. It's not going to show up for a lot of users depending on the image too. I see it visually in a Granger Rainbow or a blue gradient.

Sure, but whether it shows up or not on any particular image to me is immaterial - I think we agree they should have the algorithms working correctly so that where it COULD show up, it won't.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #114 on: July 15, 2016, 12:48:55 pm »

Apparently Printer Manages Color is OK, I haven't tried, it's not an acceptable fix for me.
I just compared Apple's Preview to Photoshop CS 6. The max dE is very small, less than 1. So Apple's product prints correctly (as it once did on Photoshop and LR). The difference between CS 6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 is a max of 16 all in blues. Meaning you need to look carefully at least on two Epson's to see this. Shows in a Granger Rainbow and blue gradients.
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Doug Gray

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #115 on: July 15, 2016, 02:20:15 pm »

Apparently Printer Manages Color is OK, I haven't tried, it's not an acceptable fix for me.
I just compared Apple's Preview to Photoshop CS 6. The max dE is very small, less than 1. So Apple's product prints correctly (as it once did on Photoshop and LR). The difference between CS 6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 is a max of 16 all in blues. Meaning you need to look carefully at least on two Epson's to see this. Shows in a Granger Rainbow and blue gradients.

The max shift is 16 dE2k but much, much larger in the standard dE1976.  To me dE2k's of over 5 are slightly visible side by side if you have a reasonably large area of the affected colors. dE2ks of over 10 are very visible side by side. Essentially, using standard profile based color management is going to be highly problematic until the applications are fixed. Worse, it puts an unfair burden on businesses that use, make or distribute printer profiles as they will often be blamed for results the photographer doesn't expect when printing. And color managed printing seems to be confusing enough to many as it is.
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #116 on: July 15, 2016, 02:46:45 pm »

Tested output using the ColorSync utility. I ended up converting the image in Photoshop then printing as target through that driver. Compared to Photoshop CS6, tiny! So it seems two of Apple's most current products behave with the print drivers correctly. Adobe's products don't.

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JRSmit

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2016, 04:02:18 am »

So when is Adobe going to wake up?
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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2016, 09:20:31 am »

So when is Adobe going to wake up?
Some time Monday I suspect  :o
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2016, 09:39:36 am »

So when is Adobe going to wake up?

Stay tuned.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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