Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: PrinTao 8  (Read 16206 times)

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3652
    • A Goldhammer Photography
PrinTao 8
« on: February 10, 2016, 03:05:18 pm »

Interesting review by Mark Segal of this printing program.  I wonder why they didn't port the software to Windows for those of us who do not use MacOS.  Providing the bulk of code was written in an OS independent manner, porting shouldn't be all that difficult.  Perhaps LaserSoft assumes everyone uses MacOS.  Mark is correct that getting LR setup for printing is complicated as it involves both use of the printer driver software as well as LR but once you have set things up and saved the preset that's it.  I only use a couple of different paper settings so I'm not one who would take advantage of all the PrinTao features.  Here are some things that occured to me after reading the review:

1.  It looks like you are dependent on PrinTao to support the paper you commonly use, correct?  I would be out of luck since I commonly print on Museo Silver Rag and Portfolio Rag and according to the website these are not supported.  This is a big drawback since new papers come out semi-regularly and you would not be able to use them until the developer adds that support.  It's also not apparent that you can control ink laydown or in the case of B/W toning or contrast as one can with the Epson ABW driver.

2.  Mark comments on the feature that allows one to print a variety of images on a single piece of paper for subsequent cutting.  However, the "nested best cut" image looks like it would not be very easy to cut with a Rotatrim but would be easy with an X-Acto knife and a ruler (not best practice).

3.  The attached video mispronounces the word 'tao' (unless LaserSoft pronounces it this way or there is an alternative pronunciation unknown to me).  It also shows how you can cue up multiple images for printing.  I can see how this might be advantages if one is printing from rolls but cannot see the value if you are using cut sheets as you have to reload the printer after each print and it's just as easy to cue up the next print in LR while the current one is printing.

4.  The software is more like a RIP in that it is printer and paper dependent (LR doesn't care what printer and paper you are using as you set those up independently).  I already posed the question about moving to an unsupported paper.  What happens if you buy a new printer?  Can you transfer your license over or do you have to buy a new software package?  Furthermore, for those fortunate to have multiple printers of different format/makes, it appears that they would have to buy separate software packages which can add up in cost particularly if they are large format printers.

5.  The requirement to print outside of LR using a TIFF or PSD is not all that inviting for me.  Like Mark I seldom use PS these days and the convenience of LR for managing all my needs from library through to printing is superb.  Maybe for those who really have lots of different print sizes PrinTao would make a difference.  For me it looks like it really would add a couple of more steps.

Those niggles aside, complements of a good review.
Logged

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3690
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 03:46:44 pm »

I haven't watched the video but I've always pronounced "tao" as dow, like in Dow Chemical. Multiple former colleagues, born & raised in various parts of China, have told me this is correct (though apparently not the only correct way…"Chinese" has variants so dissimilar to each other they may as well be separate languages).

-Dave-
Logged

E.J. Peiker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 891
    • http://www.ejphoto.com
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 03:49:32 pm »

I haven't watched the video but I've always pronounced "tao" as dow, like in Dow Chemical. Multiple former colleagues, born & raised in various parts of China, have told me this is correct (though apparently not the only correct way…"Chinese" has variants so dissimilar to each other they may as well be separate languages).

-Dave-
I also thought Kevin was mispronouncing it and thought it was pronounced the way you think it should be.
Logged

LSI_Rossee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 10:49:35 am »

Dear Alan,

this is Jan-Willem from LSI, the makers of PrinTao 8. I saw your post and thought I could provide some insight to some of the questions you raised.

Interesting review by Mark Segal of this printing program.  I wonder why they didn't port the software to Windows for those of us who do not use MacOS.  Providing the bulk of code was written in an OS independent manner, porting shouldn't be all that difficult.  Perhaps LaserSoft assumes everyone uses MacOS.
Currently we're not planning to port the software to Windows. Our "other" product SilverFast 8 supports both platforms but writing code in an OS independent manner does bring some drawbacks along. When we started designing PrinTao 8 from scratch our boss made a very bold decision at an early stage of the project to drop support for Windows platform because we didn't want to have to make compromises in the final product in order to support both platforms. This is NOT a statement on which platform is the better one. We just wanted to make use of some of the technology the OS X platform provides in order to design the software functionality and user experience we had in mind. PrinTao 8 would look and feel very different if we had pursued the dual platform strategy. Again, we're not saying Apple is better than Windows, we all have our personal preferences of course, yet as strange as it may sound, we actually consider being Mac only with PrinTao 8 a unique selling point over the other solutions out there. The typical Mac user likes things to be done in a certain way and for this particular product we wanted to make sure that our product will cater the special expectations of the Apple community 100% and I think we succeeded pretty well. Did I mention that Apple is not better than Windows  ???

Quote
1.  It looks like you are dependent on PrinTao to support the paper you commonly use, correct?  I would be out of luck since I commonly print on Museo Silver Rag and Portfolio Rag and according to the website these are not supported.  This is a big drawback since new papers come out semi-regularly and you would not be able to use them until the developer adds that support.  It's also not apparent that you can control ink laydown or in the case of B/W toning or contrast as one can with the Epson ABW driver.
No, you don't have to wait for PrinTao 8 to support the paper you commonly use. If you have an ICC-profile (vendor or custom) that reflects your printer, paper and ink combination you can easily add your paper to PrinTao via the Media Manager which also provides the advanced media control for ink laydown etc etc. This has to be setup only once and we have a video on Youtube which shows the Media Manager in action. Actually my only criticism of Mark's review would be that it neglects the Media Manager a little bit but it's actually really really neat. But the movie shows this much better than I could describe it here with words --> PrinTao - Install new Papers

Quote
5.  The requirement to print outside of LR using a TIFF or PSD is not all that inviting for me.  Like Mark I seldom use PS these days and the convenience of LR for managing all my needs from library through to printing is superb.  Maybe for those who really have lots of different print sizes PrinTao would make a difference.  For me it looks like it really would add a couple of more steps.
Those niggles aside, complements of a good review.
It is a very good review even if it's not mentioning the Photoshop & Lightroom plugin we provide free of charge.  ;D  This  plug-in allows you to directly print images from your Lightroom library with PrinTao 8.
Hope someone might find my feedback helpful and make sure to visit our PrinTao 8 Youtube channel. Best regards from Kiel - or as we like to call it the "birthplace of imaging"  8) . Jan-Willem
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 10:55:01 am by LSI_Rossee »
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3652
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 11:26:44 am »

@Jan-Willem,

Thank you for the clarification.  As I noted being a Windows user, PrinTao unfortunately will not be a product that I will be able to use.  Yes, it is easier to develop for only one platform since you do have some OS issues that have to be dealt with.  I'm sorry that the company elected this route as it does limit the market for the product.   Also thank you for mentioning the media manager as it was not evident from the review that this ability exists.

Good luck with the launch of the product and I'm sorry that I won't be able to utilize it as there are some nice features.

Alan
Logged

Tedd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 12:00:22 pm »

Quote
This  plug-in allows you to directly print images from your Lightroom library with PrinTao 8.
So does this mean the you can print directly from raw files rather than jpegs using the plugin with Lightroom?
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8122
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 12:18:50 pm »

Good luck with the launch of the product and I'm sorry that I won't be able to utilize it as there are some nice features.

Hi Alan,

Not to derail the thread, but for Windows users there is an alternative called Qimage Ultimate, which arguably produces the best image quality (seeing is believing). It also served as 'inspiration' for programs with similar functionality. Its low price is misinterpreted by some people, the price is inversely proportional to the output quality.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

LSI_Rossee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 01:04:40 pm »

So does this mean the you can print directly from raw files rather than jpegs using the plugin with Lightroom?
Yes, that's correct.

P.S: Technically not even Lightroom prints directly from raw files because a raw file is like an undeveloped film in the analogue world, but it's PrinTao's job to worry about these details. If you have all your raw files organised in a Lightroom catalogue, you won't have to export a JPEG prior to printing with PrinTao. Watch the Lightroom and PrinTao in action here.   
Best, Jan-Willem
Logged

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 555
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 04:45:46 pm »

The real problem I have found so far is the difference between Image size and Cell size.  Image size seems to be self evident but cell size is downright confusing.  Cell size should - IMO - be the size of the media.  So, I want to print on a roll of paper that is 44 inches wide.  My image size is 48 X 25.  I want 5 inches of blank paper on both the leading edge and lagging edge.  How do I do that?  My Canon printer is only able to be set to cut - which I don't want.  I would much prefer to have cut marks provided for me to cut manually - so far impossible. 

Very clumsy so far......

Victor
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12511
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 06:12:21 pm »

Actually my only criticism of Mark's review would be that it neglects the Media Manager a little bit but it's actually really really neat. But the movie shows this much better than I could describe it here with words -

Hi Jan, indeed - somehow I failed to deal with the Media Manager in adequate depth - let me just confirm that I agree with you - it is very easy to use and adds a lot of flexibility - in fact when I was testing PrinTao 8 I did install custom profiles and it all worked just fine.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

E.J. Peiker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 891
    • http://www.ejphoto.com
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 06:22:03 pm »

I haven't watched the video but I've always pronounced "tao" as dow, like in Dow Chemical. Multiple former colleagues, born & raised in various parts of China, have told me this is correct (though apparently not the only correct way…"Chinese" has variants so dissimilar to each other they may as well be separate languages).

-Dave-
From the videos that Jan linked, we are pronouncing it right!  It is pronounced like Dow but with a T
Logged

aaronchan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 579
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2016, 03:01:15 am »

Dear all,

Due to my job, I had printed with a lot of different software such as:
Wasatch, EFI, Colorburst, Imageprint, Qimage......etc.
QI uses printer's driver but does provide other nesting and upsampling features that PS and LR doesn't do, and it does have some good feature to print RGB files.
IP, used it long time ago, not a big fan of a closed loop color management workflow.
Traditional RIP is another story, it's more like building everything from scratch.

I don't have a Mac now so can't test Tao, but what's is PrinTao?
I couldn't really get an answer from the review.
So what I'm guessing is PrinTao uses it's own engine to drives a printer?
Or does it use the factory print engine to drives the printer?
If it uses it's own, then how could I use a canned profile with this software due to the canned ICC was built based on the printer's driver settings.

If that's the other way around, PrinTao is just a nesting software with it's own color engine to render the image differently then other softwares.

Am I correct?
No Offense, just wanna to know

Regard,
ac

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3652
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 07:54:53 am »


I don't have a Mac now so can't test Tao, but what's is PrinTao?
I couldn't really get an answer from the review.
So what I'm guessing is PrinTao uses it's own engine to drives a printer?
Or does it use the factory print engine to drives the printer?
If it uses it's own, then how could I use a canned profile with this software due to the canned ICC was built based on the printer's driver settings.

If that's the other way around, PrinTao is just a nesting software with it's own color engine to render the image differently then other softwares.

Am I correct?
No Offense, just wanna to know

Regard,
ac
Aaron raises a key point that didn't occur to me when I wrote the first post.  If PrinTao uses a different ink lay down than the native printer driver then one needs to profile using PrinTao with no color management to obtain optimal results.  It's not clear from the review of website how to do this.

Alan
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12511
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 10:48:18 am »

Aaron raises a key point that didn't occur to me when I wrote the first post.  If PrinTao uses a different ink lay down than the native printer driver then one needs to profile using PrinTao with no color management to obtain optimal results.  It's not clear from the review of website how to do this.

Alan

This is absolutely not a "key point". Read the paragraphs in the article under the "Test photos for PrinTao 8" illustration and you will see that there is no problem using your usual custom paper profiles in PrinTao 8. As for the rest of aaronchan's questions, I invite him to read the first sentence under "Philosophy of PT8". I would also invite readers to visit the PrintTao 8 website, which has lots of information.

In line with LuLa's initiative to emphasize the print and to put a focus on "the ease of printing", the primary intent of my PT8 review was to introduce this software to a great many people who may have been otherwise unaware of it and to provide readers with the benefit of my observations emerging from testing its usability and results. Thank you for your interest.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 555
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 11:08:44 am »

I would also invite readers to visit the PrintTao 8 website, which has lots of information.

In line with LuLa's initiative to emphasize the print and to put a focus on "the ease of printing", the primary intent of my PT8 review was to introduce this software to a great many people who may have been otherwise unaware of it and to provide readers with the benefit of my observations emerging from testing its usability and results. Thank you for your interest.

The website does have a lot of useful information but important aspects don't apply to my printer - so far.  I cannot manually cut.  I cannot add cut marks.  I cannot vary the size of the Cell without also varying the size of the image inside the cell.  This applies to a Canon iPF 8400 and roll paper.  Maybe this software is more suited for the smaller printers......

Victor
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12511
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 11:51:45 am »

Hi Victor,

Needless to say, in writing a review, the reviewer is confined to the equipment he/she has for doing the testing, in my case at the time an Epson 4900. Hence I cannot unfortunately respond to the specific issues you are facing in your context. This would fall more squarely within the domain of tech support. I would suggest you get in touch with LSI tech support for help with these problems, and if you learn anything of generic interest to the rest of the community it would be useful for you to report it here.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

aaronchan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 579
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 12:17:46 pm »

This is absolutely not a "key point". Read the paragraphs in the article under the "Test photos for PrinTao 8" illustration and you will see that there is no problem using your usual custom paper profiles in PrinTao 8. As for the rest of aaronchan's questions, I invite him to read the first sentence under "Philosophy of PT8". I would also invite readers to visit the PrintTao 8 website, which has lots of information.

In line with LuLa's initiative to emphasize the print and to put a focus on "the ease of printing", the primary intent of my PT8 review was to introduce this software to a great many people who may have been otherwise unaware of it and to provide readers with the benefit of my observations emerging from testing its usability and results. Thank you for your interest.

Dear Mark,

I have read your review and It pretty much covers all the information.
Let me expand my original question a bit more:
PrinTao8 uses it's own color engine as they have advertised.
But based on your print quality review, there is only a very small difference between it and the print driver.
Plus, it can uses canned profile with it's own color engine, this makes me think what would be the difference under the hood?
And WHY should I use this software if I saved all of my template in LR and presets in the printer's driver already?

If nesting is another feature as a selling point, there are ImageNest which has been around for a while and in the very close price range. Also we have Print-Tool, which is only $39 bulks. If you are on Windows platform, Q-Image is def. a best choice since the ease of use.

So my very last question, probably for LSI Rossee, what makes PrinTao8 so special compare to the others?
I know this question might sound rough but as a consumor, I would like to know why should I pick a Ford Focus rather than Toyota Corolla, right? Performance? Quality? Comfy? Price? Or after sell services?

Thanks
Aaron

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15625
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 12:20:19 pm »

But based on your print quality review, there is only a very small difference between it and the print driver.
Plus, it can uses canned profile with it's own color engine, this makes me think what would be the difference under the hood?
And WHY should I use this software if I saved all of my template in LR and presets in the printer's driver already?
Coming into this late (and yes I DO need to read Mark's piece), good questions. I checked out the product when it first came up (year, year and a half ago? Have to check). I asked myself the same questions you raise above.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12511
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 12:32:37 pm »

Aaron, sorry, it really isn't my job to compare this software with every other printing solution out there and tell you why I think there is something special about the one or the other. That would be fun, but not me in my lifetime. If Jan Rossee wants to address this question of course up to him to do so. But I can offer this: PrinTao 8 was designed for simplicity as its most important selling feature because, I am informed, numerous folks have trouble managing printing processes in software such as Photoshop and Lightroom; that may not apply to you or me, but it's a big world out there with a huge range of talent and proficiency when it comes to using software. As well PT8 offers a number of automated layout features that one does not find in these other applications and which people may find handy to have. In brief, it has a combination of features which may make it an attractive printing solution to some people more or less than others. It all depends on one's needs, digital imaging environment and level of proficiency with other printing solutions. As I said, I took it upon myself to write-up this software as a service to the community - I get nothing more out of it than the satisfaction of authorship; everyone reading the review would decide for themselves whether this is for them. To my mind the key takeaway is that it makes excellent prints with minimum fuss and bother, and being independent of the printer driver and Colorsync, one is perhaps sheltered from issues that could arise in the periodic changes made to these otherwise necessary platforms.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 555
Re: PrinTao 8
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 12:53:37 pm »

Hi Victor,

Needless to say, in writing a review, the reviewer is confined to the equipment he/she has for doing the testing, in my case at the time an Epson 4900. Hence I cannot unfortunately respond to the specific issues you are facing in your context. This would fall more squarely within the domain of tech support. I would suggest you get in touch with LSI tech support for help with these problems, and if you learn anything of generic interest to the rest of the community it would be useful for you to report it here.

Mark..... I can appreciate your limitations.  Obviously you can't begin to use/test the software with numerous printers.  My approach was very simple, though.  From a simplistic approach I should/must be able to tell the printer where to start, where to stop, the size of the paper and the margins.  So far, I have been unable to do this with PrintTao 8.  They tout the features that I want such as manual cutting, applying cut marks but those features are unavailable to me.  I have started a case with them and will post when I hear from them. 

Victor
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up