Paris attacks

[stamper]

Pretty sure that no one in Paris is really that affected by posts on a photographic webpage forum. 

I possibly could have phrased it better? Members following the thread might feel it has become disrespectful to the French who have suffered. All of the threads on here end up going awry but surely in a thread as sensitive as this then ......?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Isn't it great, Stamper, that people who almost got at each other throats in this debate ended it with coffee and Belgium chocolate, after gulping a hamburger with French fries? 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Relax, Stamper, this is how the French are "disrespectful" to themselves, talking about drinks:

[Manoli]

There's a time for levity and humour, Slobodan - this isn't one of them.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

There's a time for levity and humour, Slobodan - this isn't one of them.

Is the verbal fighting that has been going on for ten pages more appropriate? Fine, pick the next controversial issue regarding the attack and let's continue.

[mbaginy]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the terrible loss of life when the Russian airliner was blown up by a terrorist organization just recently.  It seems to have been the same gang of ruthless murderers who were behind that.  Also, most of the press seems to mention that tragedy only as a footnote in their reports.  The current focus is on Paris (and rightly so), but the loss of life over the Sinai is equally tragic and to be condemned.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the terrible loss of life when the Russian airliner...

Yes, with twice as many dead. Earlier this year, the same religious ideology was behind a university attack with more dead students than in Paris. Mass casualties by suicide bombers (or otherwise) in Lebanon and Iraq too.

It is hard and risky to wade into reasons why we react differently to similar tragedies, but if I'd venture a guess, I'd say we get desensitized over time for repeating tragedies. Airplane bombs are nothing new, and as horrible as it might sound, mass tragedies are just another Monday afternoon in Africa and the Middle East. Not to mention it is away from us, and it is "them," not "us" (again, as horrible as it sounds). Paris, however, is "us," not only civilization-wise, but also because "we" could have been there, it is "our" Paris, most of us visited at some point in our lives or have it on our bucket list at least.

[Nick Walker]

Paris attacks: “I won't give you the gift of hating you"

Powerful and eloquent from one of the victims - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ-1iA-56k0

[Tarnash]

Yes, with twice as many dead. Earlier this year, the same religious ideology was behind a university attack with more dead students than in Paris. Mass casualties by suicide bombers (or otherwise) in Lebanon and Iraq too.

It is hard and risky to wade into reasons why we react differently to similar tragedies, but if I'd venture a guess, I'd say we get desensitized over time for repeating tragedies. Airplane bombs are nothing new, and as horrible as it might sound, mass tragedies are just another Monday afternoon in Africa and the Middle East. Not to mention it is away from us, and it is "them," not "us" (again, as horrible as it sounds). Paris, however, is "us," not only civilization-wise, but also because "we" could have been there, it is "our" Paris, most of us visited at some point in our lives or have it on our bucket list at least.

I think this is a very interesting question and, whilst I agree that it "hard and risky to wade into", it's a discussion I believe we might all benefit from if it can be kept within the bounds of `civilised debate'.  Are we genetically `pre-programmed' to respond differently to people who are `not like us' in some way?  Does the intensity of media coverage reflect or shape/lead public opinion?  What part does perceived `victim culpability' play in our conscious or sub-conscious reasoning?  A better understanding why some tragedies go almost `unnoticed' whilst others become instant sensations seems like a worthwhile field of enquiry.

[Tarnash]

As an afterthought and without wishing to divert discussion from the topic or trivialise:  There are, perhaps, certain parallels in our approach to images.  Why, for example, are images of some `celebrity', caught in an unguarded and potentially embarrassing moment `worth' tens of thousands of dollars whilst those of an `ordinary' person caught in the same situation worth nothing (or, in some situations, worth criminal prosecution)?   What is it that allows people to cringe from or be outraged by some things whilst greeting other similar ones with a nod and a wink? 

[Torbjörn Tapani]

I don't know what media coverage you get but the russian airplane got plenty of headlines in Sweden. But of course it pales in comparison to the coverage of the Paris attacks. They are closer to home and we live with the very real threat of the same happening to us. Threat level here went from a 3 to 4 (of 5) and just now tonight one person beleived to be an IS fighter was arrested not two hours away from where I live. And I live in the far north of Europe.

[BernardLanguillier]

The Paris attacks and the Russian plane bombing didn't, IMHO rightfully, get the same press coverage because the seriousness of the even isn't measured by the number of human casualties.

The seriouness of the event is measured by its symbolic ability to generate terror (a major historical city, situations many people can relate to,...) and by the possible consequences, in this case mostly determined by the stupid actions taken till now by president Hollande that could get use close to civil unrest in France.

Cheers,
Bernard

[jeremyrh]

so how many refugees at this moment are in Libya, Turkey, Lebanon, etc, etc vs how many in Europe ?

Or Pakistan. Or Iran.  The original statement is stunning in its ignorance.

[Colorado David]

I believe another reason the Russian airliner got less attention at first was that Russia was reluctant to say it was brought down by terrorists.  They investigated other possible reasons for the crash until it became obvious it was an explosion that caused the plane to disintegrate at altitude.  Air travel is extremely safe and there have been almost no crashes in of the scheduled airlines in the last few years, especially in the developed world.  In years past however there have been cases of spectacular crashes and the news viewing public probably looks at them differently than they do a brazen terrorist suicide attack.  Now that it is acknowledge that it was a terrorist bomb that brought down the plane, it has been overtaken by the Paris attack.  There is certainly enough tragedy to go around.  There was a period of hours when we thought my sister-in-law was on the plane that was intentionally crashed by the suicidal German co-pilot earlier this year.  There is no such thing as a lesser tragedy.

[wmchauncey]

Something that had escaped my attention is "Captagon"...http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/10/captogen-the-war-drug-that-fuels-isis-terrorism-and-savagery-3235986.html

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

so how many refugees at this moment are in Libya, Turkey, Lebanon, etc, etc vs how many in Europe ?...

So, how many? Quoting some numbers and sources would be helpful.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... the stupid actions taken till now by president Hollande that could get use close to civil unrest in France.

What would those be?

[amolitor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Syrian_refugees_accepted_by_country

might prove a useful resource. the page itself has many citations, so you can verify to your heart's content.

[BernardLanguillier]

What would those be?

Essentially a copy cat of what Bush did after 9.11.

A set of actions focused on retaliation.

Just read what I wrote above, it should be crystal clear.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Syrian_refugees_accepted_by_country

might prove a useful resource. the page itself has many citations, so you can verify to your heart's content.

Thanks. A quick look at the numbers suggests that the first three countries alone (Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan) already took more than the  total estimated number of refugees? Given the constant and rapid movement of refugees across the continent, it seems that the numbers are becoming obsolete equally rapidly.