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Author Topic: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?  (Read 45044 times)

Chairman Bill

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2015, 09:23:08 am »

A Leica will only ever be a direct competitor when it's drawing on the same market share, and that means it has to be a credible alternative to whatever other manufacturer(s) is in that market. Given the cost of a Leica, that is simply not happening, and there's nothing to suggest that is going to change any time soon.

pegelli

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #161 on: October 27, 2015, 10:37:52 am »

is claimed by a questionable credibility poster
If you don't have the ability to have a discussion on a difference of opinion without resorting to personal attacks the only thing that happens is that your own credibility goes below zero. I hope we can resume the discussion without this and focus on the question you put at the start of this thread.
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Theodoros

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #162 on: October 27, 2015, 12:25:12 pm »

If you don't have the ability to have a discussion on a difference of opinion without resorting to personal attacks the only thing that happens is that your own credibility goes below zero. I hope we can resume the discussion without this and focus on the question you put at the start of this thread.

A questionable credibility poster is one that posts fiction as facts that (hypothetically) happened during his presence.... In this case the "troll" posted that he asked a Leica official during an event where the SL was presented, "if the S lens adapter for SL would support leaf shutter operation of S-lenses when it appears on the market".... He claims that the answer was that "it won't.. and the ability will be excluded from any future upgrade, because Leica wants to leave a reason for S-customers to still buy an S camera...

Now, because the SL can in no way reduce S sales (it's rather the opposite if lenses have a wider spread), I bothered to call Leica and informed them on the claim... The answer I got is that the post was pure fiction and that there was no qualified personel present in the event that could possibly know or authorised to answer in anything that is not yet produced by Leica... In other words a pure troll post that aimed to damage Leica for a reason that only the poster knows... The "info" was then multiplied by Synn in this discussion... Obviously none could ever stop you in jumping in whatever conclusion you want... but you may always call Leica  yourself as well if you want to confirm the credibility of every web troll fictitious dream is presented to us as "private and exclusive info"...

EDIT: OTOH, I never posted fiction as facts so that one may comment on my credibility, all I did is notice design aspects ( and announcements of adapters) that differ from competition, and given Leica's tradition and abilities, I predicted some uses of the particular camera, (within the rest of Leica family pro equipment), adaptation of which third party cameras don't have the abilities to perform and that would strengthen the Leica family line of products up (without further investment)... IMO, if I see a maker of view cameras producing an MFDB and having the lenses that provide the appropriate image circle as to serve the MFDB, it is pure common sense to combine the use of these products thus adding sales and faithful customers... If to some, this (the obvious) is a not (!!!) a probable move... then, (IMO) they consider the maker as being naive... but I'm sure that Leica is anything but naive...  ;)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 01:06:10 pm by Theodoros »
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eronald

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #163 on: October 27, 2015, 07:57:09 pm »

Just purchased an A7sII for a project because of the 4k and image stabilization, including low light.


The cameras don't matter if they perform, regardless of cost. The imagery matters, success matters.


IMO

BC

So, post some images.

As you say, stabilisers on the little cams seem to have got amazing - I cannot believe how good the lens stab on my GH4 is, handheld waist-level video use is feasible. Stabilisation has now arrived as a major feature rather than a gadget.

Canon and Nikon have put a lot of work into the "pro" bodies - they're unfussy and live outside a bag, they focus fast,  and batteries live forever.  You pick one up, it's ready to go.

Edmund
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synn

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #164 on: October 28, 2015, 03:01:37 am »



The cameras don't matter if they perform, regardless of cost. The imagery matters, success matters.



Sure they do, for most people who are not making money from photography.
If two brands offer pretty much the same thing and one of them is thrice as expensive, such people find it hard to justify the purchase. Whatever brands that might be.

This is not a Ford vs BMW thing. No one gives a flying duck what camera you bring to the gig, unlike the car you show up in. Brand level arguments inthe camera world are more related to use case scenarios than prestige (In most cases, at least).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 05:35:42 am by synn »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #165 on: October 28, 2015, 05:21:24 am »

Sure they do, for most people who are not making money from photography.
If two brands offer pretty much the same thing and one of them is thrice as expensive, such people find it hard to justify the purchase. Whatever brands that might be.

+1

Besides, if you are heavily invested in AF lenses in a given mount, it takes a huge differentiator to convince people to switch over.

The a7 managed to do that for some Canon users thanks to compactness, better image quality and also a reasonable ability to re-use their existing lenses.

The Leica doesn't offer any of that (at least for still shooters)... and is much more expensive.

I am with BC in wishing the best to Leica, but I don't think they have put very attractive cards on the table this time around.

Honestly, I am not even tempted by the SL as a still shooter, while I have been tempted by the S system because of the lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

Theodoros

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #166 on: October 28, 2015, 10:45:08 am »

+1

Besides, if you are heavily invested in AF lenses in a given mount, it takes a huge differentiator to convince people to switch over.

The a7 managed to do that for some Canon users thanks to compactness, better image quality and also a reasonable ability to re-use their existing lenses.

The Leica doesn't offer any of that (at least for still shooters)... and is much more expensive.

I am with BC in wishing the best to Leica, but I don't think they have put very attractive cards on the table this time around.

Honestly, I am not even tempted by the SL as a still shooter, while I have been tempted by the S system because of the lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

What all the above has to do with Leica LS's target group? ...They may apply to you or many others, but really... do you expect Leica to address a camera to the mass market? Leica's aim is to provide a mirrorless cross platform that would provide solutions (better than a Sony A7 would) to pros that already use Leica-family equipment or plan to use Leica-family equipment... That is unless you can show a professional a way of using his "S" lenses on Sony A (with full interface compatibility as Leica claims that the S-adapter will do) and use the same lenses (and some more of the Leica family - again with full interface compatibility) for motion pictures captures (of pro quality), or if you know a way to use a Sony A instead of an MFDB on a Sinar camera with the S-lenses on the front standard (and even Hasselblad-H or Contax 645 lenses via the S-adapter) and again full interface compatibility... Do you? (know a way of doing the above)...

I really don't see why Leica should have designed a camera for your needs (that don't include the above uses) or others that also don't or have these uses under their plans... But clearly, why should Leica care on what you (or others) think that their target group should be? They clearly don't give a dime..., They have designed a product that will enhance and tighten up further the relationship and faithfulness of their existing customers to the firm, that will provide further solutions and abilities to the same users, that will attract more customers to the Sinar family of products and a product that is under their (limited) capability of number of units that can be produced...

Did it ever occur to you that a pro Leica S user with only 4-5 lenses (not necessarily S-lenses, Hassy H or C645 will also do), if will add this body to his system and a Sinar view camera will be able to perform all possible pro photographic tasks (inc. pro motion captures with or without the view camera & still captures that need a view camera) with the same lenses (minimal of equipment - very important for pros and very cost saving too) and with full interface communication between body and lenses?

This insist of (some) people comparing apples with ...chocolate bars really annoys me! Especially if they insist that a product should only apply on their (very limited) applications/needs of what a camera should be as if they are the "center of earth"...

Pros (and therefore Leica) don't care of the (limited) use YOU (and some others) do to a camera and if for that (limited) use a Sony A7 would be sufficient to you... They do care to maximize (software & hardware) compatibility and quality as well as reducing equipment they have to carry... they don't give a dime on what specification interests you or most of the rest of consumers... Cost efficiency is another factor they consider... and this is highly dependent on the their ability to perform tasks, the time needed to do so, the (technological) time resistance of the equipment they use and of course reliability and quality offered to customers for all the tasks they may perform... ...See?
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DucatiTerminator

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #167 on: October 28, 2015, 11:53:28 am »


Did it ever occur to you that a pro Leica S user with only 4-5 lenses (not necessarily S-lenses, Hassy H or C645 will also do), if will add this body to his system and a Sinar view camera will be able to perform all possible pro photographic tasks (inc. pro motion captures with or without the view camera & still captures that need a view camera) with the same lenses (minimal of equipment - very important for pros and very cost saving too) and with full interface communication between body and lenses?

This insist of (some) people comparing apples with ...chocolate bars really annoys me! Especially if they insist that a product should only apply on their (very limited) applications/needs of what a camera should be as if they are the "center of earth"...

Pros (and therefore Leica) don't care of the (limited) use YOU (and some others) do to a camera and if for that (limited) use a Sony A7 would be sufficient to you... They do care to maximize (software & hardware) compatibility and quality as well as reducing equipment they have to carry... they don't give a dime on what specification interests you or most of the rest of consumers... Cost efficiency is another factor they consider... and this is highly dependent on the their ability to perform tasks, the time needed to do so, the (technological) time resistance of the equipment they use and of course reliability and quality offered to customers for all the tasks they may perform... ...See?

Tell us how you really feel, LOL.

Did it ever occur to YOU that the pro Leica S user with only 4-5 lenses that also shoot with a Sinar view camera is very small? You seem to be describing what YOU want, and some of what Leica is doing seems to fit what YOU like, but seriously bro, you often sound like a Leica/Sinar fanboy. Considering you also have your not-so-subtle jabs at PhaseOne, are you not guilty of that which you are accusing others? I'm guessing P1 has an idea of what their target group wants, and the price they are willing to pay to get it. Just sayin'.

Who cares what anyone (especially those who fall in the mass market category) thinks about the success of the SL or any other Leica/Sinar product? Doesn't matter if it fits anyone else's personal needs/wants -- it just matters if it fits yours. The Asian market alone can likely support this product line anyways, so I hope it does well even if it doesn't end up being the "Pro" camera Leica intends it to be.

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shadowblade

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #168 on: October 28, 2015, 12:03:14 pm »

What all the above has to do with Leica LS's target group? ...They may apply to you or many others, but really... do you expect Leica to address a camera to the mass market? Leica's aim is to provide a mirrorless cross platform that would provide solutions (better than a Sony A7 would) to pros that already use Leica-family equipment or plan to use Leica-family equipment...

That's an exceedingly small number of users.

It's like Rolls-Royce bringing out a new model, that also works with other Rolls Royce accessories. The exclusivity drives up the profile of the brand, but the model itself (and the brand of car) is largely irrelevant, both to the general public (who can't afford it or wouldn't spend that much on a car) or to commercial/business users (who find that spending half a million dollars on a car a waste of money when they can do the same job just as well with something a tenth the price).

Did it ever occur to you that a pro Leica S user with only 4-5 lenses (not necessarily S-lenses, Hassy H or C645 will also do), if will add this body to his system and a Sinar view camera will be able to perform all possible pro photographic tasks (inc. pro motion captures with or without the view camera & still captures that need a view camera) with the same lenses (minimal of equipment - very important for pros and very cost saving too) and with full interface communication between body and lenses?

Yes, it can accomplish all possible pro photographic tasks - most of them not very well, or at least not up to the same standard as dedicated equipment, and at three times the price of other equipment that can do the same job.

Besides, all tasks? Try shooting a live concert in a dark venue, without flash, with rapidly-changing lighting. Then shoot a high-resolution (at least 6k) aerial video of a lion pouncing on an impala from a drone. Then shoot an ultra-high-resolution (at least 500 megapixel) panorama of a mountain vista at sunset, for use in a 3Dfx cinematography segment. Think you can do justice to all three tasks with one camera?

Quote
Pros (and therefore Leica) don't care of the (limited) use YOU (and some others) do to a camera and if for that (limited) use a Sony A7 would be sufficient to you... They do care to maximize (software & hardware) compatibility and quality as well as reducing equipment they have to carry... they don't give a dime on what specification interests you or most of the rest of consumers... Cost efficiency is another factor they consider... and this is highly dependent on the their ability to perform tasks, the time needed to do so, the (technological) time resistance of the equipment they use and of course reliability and quality offered to customers for all the tasks they may perform... ...See?

Your definition of a 'pro' is extremely limited - perhaps even more limited than those action shooters who insist that only those who shoot fast action in low light for press (hence needing high ISO, low resolution, high frame rate, low shutter lag and fast ergonomics).

I know a lot of pro photographers in a lot of different fields, who make money from their photography. Wedding photographers, sports photographers, commercial/fashion photographers (both studio/tethered and location), travel photographers, film cinematographers, videographers, photojournalists and landscape photographers. Both freelancers and those shooting for an agency. None of them shoot Leica, nor do they show any interest in their products. Most could easily afford to use Leica gear if they wanted to. There is almost no photographic application where the Leica S, Leica M or other Leica gear is the best tool for the task, let alone the best bang for the buck. Depending on what they shoot, I see them using Phase One, Mamiya, Canon, Nikon, Sony and Red bodies and digital backs, and lenses that range from Sigma to Rodenstock. These are the Toyota sedans, the Isuzu trucks and the Landcruisers of the camera world - the best tool for the task, depending on what you're trying to accomplish, and the tools of the professional world.

I know five or six enthusiasts who shoot Leica (mostly Leica M, but two Leica S). None of them make a cent from photography. They also like to show off their gear, in a 'mine's bigger than yours' fashion. To them, the Leica is like a fancy toy, a piece of jewellery or a Rolls Royce luxury car - something to show off rather than the best tool for the task (unless the task is to show off).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 12:13:21 pm by shadowblade »
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BJL

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Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor? we agree that the answer is "no"
« Reply #169 on: October 28, 2015, 12:08:59 pm »

Leica's aim is to provide a mirrorless cross platform that would provide solutions (better than a Sony A7 would) to pros that already use Leica-family equipment or plan to use Leica-family equipment...
I am glad we all now agree that, despite your original subject line for this thread, the Leica SL is in now way "a Sony A7 direct competitor", and Leica is instead targeting a market about 100 times smaller: those what want to use excellent and very expensive lenses designed for one format (45x30mm for S lenses, or 54x42 for Hasselblad lenses) on a body that imposes a heavy FOV crop on those lenses.

Since you have also mentioned using Leica's cine-lenses: those are designed for the "cinema 35mm formats", with their advertised image circle size too small to cover the full 36x24mm frame, and as far as I know the SL does not offer a cropped video mode.  So it would seem that there are better choices for PL mount video cameras to use with those lenses.
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Theodoros

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I am glad we all now agree that, despite your original subject line for this thread, the Leica SL is in now way "a Sony A7 direct competitor", and Leica is instead targeting a market about 100 times smaller: those what want to use excellent and very expensive lenses designed for one format (45x30mm for S lenses, or 54x42 for Hasselblad lenses) on a body that imposes a heavy FOV crop on those lenses.

Since you have also mentioned using Leica's cine-lenses: those are designed for the "cinema 35mm formats", with their advertised image circle size too small to cover the full 36x24mm frame, and as far as I know the SL does not offer a cropped video mode.  So it would seem that there are better choices for PL mount video cameras to use with those lenses.

The O/P title was before the camera's specification was out and it does end with a question mark...  It was a question based on the information that there was another FF mirrorless coming in the market from Leica and the fact that Sony was the only FF mirrorless available before Leica's introduction.... I guess if Leica would have released a Q with interchangeable lens, all the "bullying compare" that the usual trolls are trying to impose would make more sense...

I never mentioned Leica's cine lenses... I did mention that the SL can now be used for good enough professional video (quality is always judged over the limits of the equipment's cost) with one's existing Leica S lenses (or Hasselblad H/Contax 645 ones) in combination with or without a Sinar view camera and have full interface control over them...

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Theodoros

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #171 on: October 28, 2015, 02:24:28 pm »


Yes, it can accomplish all possible pro photographic tasks - most of them not very well, or at least not up to the same standard as dedicated equipment, and at three times the price of other equipment that can do the same job.


Well... I guess "most of them not very well" and "at least not up to the same standard as dedicated equipment" are two completely different things... One has to define (according to his photographic skills) what is "very well" and what cost is involved on the project... I've seen pros abandoning their Monolith + Rodies + MFDB for a Sony A7 + Cambo Actus with Mamyia RZ lenses and still delivering images to their customers that are of superb quality... I've seen other pros using their (very old) MFDB on a Fuji GX-680 and still deliver "drop dead" quality images... I've even seen pros filming with Black Magic for "cracking" cinema quality and even using a Panasonic for some scenes...

I guess that none of the above (or the rest of the meaningless that you posted) has anything to do with a pro that is a Leica S user and integrates an SL on his system as well as using the SL on his (Sinar) view camera instead of an MFDB with full interface communication and the minimum of investment as to add extra tasks...

...and NO... (of course not)... it won't do it "not very well" - it will rather perform on all targets very well indeed (even if there is much more expensive equipment out there that aims to perfection). In addition the (skillful) user will keep costs down and increase maneuverability than if one uses another mirrorless, because he will save on the extra lenses that he needs and he will take advantage of the interface communication as to both maximize the performance of the (very capable for the price) equipment he has under maximum control (with the help of the maker and the compatibility with the rest of the family) as to use the full potential of his skills. 

P.S. the phrase "at three times the cost" made me really laugh... you seem to be counting "the bodies only"...   :o ;D
P.S-2... Yes, all tasks, including those you mention...  ;)
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MarkL

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #172 on: October 28, 2015, 03:05:35 pm »

I know a lot of pro photographers in a lot of different fields, who make money from their photography. Wedding photographers, sports photographers, commercial/fashion photographers (both studio/tethered and location), travel photographers, film cinematographers, videographers, photojournalists and landscape photographers. Both freelancers and those shooting for an agency. None of them shoot Leica, nor do they show any interest in their products. Most could easily afford to use Leica gear if they wanted to. There is almost no photographic application where the Leica S, Leica M or other Leica gear is the best tool for the task, let alone the best bang for the buck. Depending on what they shoot, I see them using Phase One, Mamiya, Canon, Nikon, Sony and Red bodies and digital backs, and lenses that range from Sigma to Rodenstock. These are the Toyota sedans, the Isuzu trucks and the Landcruisers of the camera world - the best tool for the task, depending on what you're trying to accomplish, and the tools of the professional world.

I know five or six enthusiasts who shoot Leica (mostly Leica M, but two Leica S). None of them make a cent from photography. They also like to show off their gear, in a 'mine's bigger than yours' fashion. To them, the Leica is like a fancy toy, a piece of jewellery or a Rolls Royce luxury car - something to show off rather than the best tool for the task (unless the task is to show off).

Indeed. Leica's are luxury products (priced and marketed accordingly) not the choice as a professional workhorse.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #173 on: October 28, 2015, 03:36:52 pm »

Hi,

I don't think one aspect excludes the other. Just two examples:

The Sony IPhones are sort of a lifestyle products, commanding comparatively high prices, but they are very usable mobile devices.

The Leica S in it's different invocations is probably a quite useful tool, probably offering reasonable value for the price.

Best regards
Erik


Indeed. Leica's are luxury products (priced and marketed accordingly) not the choice as a professional workhorse.
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Manoli

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Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor? - You're kidding me, right ?
« Reply #174 on: October 28, 2015, 04:08:03 pm »

If Leica want to stay relevant :

Give the world an option of a true M, with the EVF of the SL and no rangefinder, at a cost that makes economic sense. The M still outperforms the SL with M lenses.

Convince the world that the S will be able to compete sensor wise with the Sony fuelled Hassy's, P1's and Pentax's MF – and by that I mean resolution wise as well as IQ. So far, an upper limit of 37.5 MP and zero indication of a future roadmap is limiting. Otherwise, if and when a true full frame MF CMOS sensor arrives, they'll be dead in the water. Sinar, or not.

Refine the SL. First reports show banding and noise as compared to the Sony bog simple  A7II – not even talking about the A7rII.  Inferior at 4x the price - not great. From an aesthetic pov, why they didn't put the guts of the SL into an alternative 'S' body instead of the Bauhaus-inspired box is anybody's guess – sexy curves are cool , boxes less so.

Stop trying to be a jack-of-all trades and master of none. They've got the largest installed base of high IQ lenses (M) and arguably the best MF glass out there (S). Give us the boxes to take advantage of them as well as delivering modern AF versions.

Blueprint for success ? The most successful Leica of recent times, the D-LUX(typ109) otherwise known as the Panasonic LX100 (with a nod to the Leica Q).   

Panasonic electronics, Leica glass - wash, rinse, repeat.

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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor? - You're kidding me, right ?
« Reply #175 on: October 28, 2015, 04:45:11 pm »

Hi,

Yeah. But I may prefer the Panasonic label. Panasonic GH models are serious cameras. With the red dot you never now.

Best regards
Erik

If Leica want to stay relevant :

Give the world an option of a true M, with the EVF of the SL and no rangefinder, at a cost that makes economic sense. The M still outperforms the SL with M lenses.

Convince the world that the S will be able to compete sensor wise with the Sony fuelled Hassy's, P1's and Pentax's MF – and by that I mean resolution wise as well as IQ. So far, an upper limit of 37.5 MP and zero indication of a future roadmap is limiting. Otherwise, if and when a true full frame MF CMOS sensor arrives, they'll be dead in the water. Sinar, or not.

Refine the SL. First reports show banding and noise as compared to the Sony bog simple  A7II – not even talking about the A7rII.  Inferior at 4x the price - not great. From an aesthetic pov, why they didn't put the guts of the SL into an alternative 'S' body instead of the Bauhaus-inspired box is anybody's guess – sexy curves are cool , boxes less so.

Stop trying to be a jack-of-all trades and master of none. They've got the largest installed base of high IQ lenses (M) and arguably the best MF glass out there (S). Give us the boxes to take advantage of them as well as delivering modern AF versions.

Blueprint for success ? The most successful Leica of recent times, the D-LUX(typ109) otherwise known as the Panasonic LX100 (with a nod to the Leica Q).   

Panasonic electronics, Leica glass - wash, rinse, repeat.
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Theodoros

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #176 on: October 28, 2015, 06:33:23 pm »

Indeed. Leica's are luxury products (priced and marketed accordingly) not the choice as a professional workhorse.

 ???   I don't know any law that prohibits pro users from using Leica (if you know one please enlighten us...  :o), but I know lots of pros (in this forum too) that have replaced their MF cameras & MFDBs for Leica S... This, (the SL) seems to also be very attractive to many pros I know... It's all a matter of looking around you...  ;)
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shadowblade

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #177 on: October 28, 2015, 06:42:39 pm »

Well... I guess "most of them not very well" and "at least not up to the same standard as dedicated equipment" are two completely different things... One has to define (according to his photographic skills) what is "very well" and what cost is involved on the project... I've seen pros abandoning their Monolith + Rodies + MFDB for a Sony A7 + Cambo Actus with Mamyia RZ lenses and still delivering images to their customers that are of superb quality... I've seen other pros using their (very old) MFDB on a Fuji GX-680 and still deliver "drop dead" quality images... I've even seen pros filming with Black Magic for "cracking" cinema quality and even using a Panasonic for some scenes...

All of these are examples of using dedicated equipment to get the best possible result. A7r plus Actus plus stitching gives you a higher resolution than any MFDB. Blackmagic gives you cinema quality at a fraction of the cost.

Using the same Leica for every shot delivers neither the best possible result nor the best cost-benefit ratio.

Quote
I guess that none of the above (or the rest of the meaningless that you posted) has anything to do with a pro that is a Leica S user and integrates an SL on his system as well as using the SL on his (Sinar) view camera instead of an MFDB with full interface communication and the minimum of investment as to add extra tasks...

Nope, because that's probably around 50 people worldwide and such a small group as to be irrelevant.

Quote
...and NO... (of course not)... it won't do it "not very well" - it will rather perform on all targets very well indeed (even if there is much more expensive equipment out there that aims to perfection). In addition the (skillful) user will keep costs down and increase maneuverability than if one uses another mirrorless, because he will save on the extra lenses that he needs and he will take advantage of the interface communication as to both maximize the performance of the (very capable for the price) equipment he has under maximum control (with the help of the maker and the compatibility with the rest of the family) as to use the full potential of his skills. 

P.S. the phrase "at three times the cost" made me really laugh... you seem to be counting "the bodies only"...   :o ;D
P.S-2... Yes, all tasks, including those you mention...  ;)

If I counted the lenses as well as the bodies, it would be more than three times the cost. Sure, you might need one or two extra lenses (you don't normally need to duplicate every focal length in every format - for instance I don't need a 500 f/4 with fast AF to shoot landscapes with an A7r, nor do I need a 14-24 f/2.8 to shoot wildlife with a 1Dx). But you can buy several optically-equivalent lenses for the price of one Leica.
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shadowblade

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #178 on: October 28, 2015, 06:45:23 pm »

???   I don't know any law that prohibits pro users from using Leica (if you know one please enlighten us...  :o), but I know lots of pros (in this forum too) that have replaced their MF cameras & MFDBs for Leica S... This, (the SL) seems to also be very attractive to many pros I know... It's all a matter of looking around you...  ;)

There's nothing prohibiting pro users from shooting with a Canon Rebel or an old Nikon film camera either.

Just like the Leica, though, they're just not very attractive options - not when there are other cameras out there that can do the job better, and, in the case of Leica, at a much lower cost.
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Theodoros

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Re: Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?
« Reply #179 on: October 28, 2015, 06:50:23 pm »

There's nothing prohibiting pro users from shooting with a Canon Rebel or an old Nikon film camera either.

Just like the Leica, though, they're just not very attractive options - not when there are other cameras out there that can do the job better, and, in the case of Leica, at a much lower cost.

Sure thing... that's why so many pros replace their MF + MFDB with an S... It does a much better job at a much lower cost!  ;)
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