Leica to relase a Sony A7 direct competitor?

[telyt]

- There are cheaper mirrorless cameras, but there are even cheaper DSLRs. Overall would you not agree that mirrorless are currently more expensive than their closest DSLR equivalent?

I would argue that equivalence is elusive at best.

[BernardLanguillier]

I would argue that equivalence is elusive at best.

Fair enough. What are the mirrorless cameras equivalent to a Nikon D5500 (best in class 24mp DX sensor) in image quality/AF capabilities (the 2 components most important I would say) and what is their street price int the US?

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D5500-DX-format-Digital-Black/dp/B00RUBJ7EW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445561062&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+5500

Cheers,
Bernard

[telyt]

Fair enough. What are the mirrorless cameras equivalent to a Nikon D5500 (best in class 24mp DX sensor) in image quality/AF capabilities (the 2 components most important I would say) and what is their street price int the US?

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D5500-DX-format-Digital-Black/dp/B00RUBJ7EW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445561062&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+5500

Cheers,
Bernard

What DSLR cameras have equivalent manual focus capabilities?  That's most important to me.

[BernardLanguillier]

What DSLR cameras have equivalent manual focus capabilities?  That's most important to me.

OK, I understand your point now. What mirrorless camera are you currently using?

Cheers,
Bernard

[MoreOrLess]

Looking at the specs, the 24-90 is almost f4 at 50mm! That is ridiculous for a $5000 lens! You may as well shoot medium format for that size, spec and price.

This is not a professional spec 35mm system lens, it's an oversized, over priced, slow as hell, amateur spec lens. Given the size of it, it means there will never be a constant 2.8 zoom lens for this system, ever.

Who in their right mind would buy this at over $5000? In professional situations it's only really usable at f4 because if you set up your lighting and exposure for 2.8 and then zoom, you have to change your lights or be a stop under exposed.

There are no other other lenses available at launch. Just this one, expensive, slow, enormous, limited zoom. This is going to flop hard.

To be fair if you look to medium format you'll see variable aperture zooms as well and perhaps that provides a good hint (if anymore were needed after the price) that if the SL is going to be bought by pro's its not likely to be your standard event/portrait shooter, more likely for example someone shooting something like travel photography.

Really though lets be honest the key market for this camera as with everything Leica have released in recent years bar maybe the S system is going to be rich amateurs. In that respect "professional" has really just come to mean certain rather ill defined standard of performance and build/handling.

In that respect I think this  24-90mm lens makes a lot of sense provided it offers extreme IQ you'd expect. It is a good range as a holiday/travel camera and you could argue is also plugging a bit of a gap since nobody else is really offering a high quality zoom in that range.

Size wise I do tend to agree with Bernard that Sony(and indeed all mirrorless) are deliberately aiming at a niche and this creates a potential logical facility. That is claiming mirrorless is the future from a technical stand point and then from that argument alone also bringing the assumption that very small cameras are also the future when really the latter is at present more a result of mirrorless looking to avoid direct competition with DSLRs. This Leica is arguably the first mirrorless camera to not be sold mainly on size but purely on its own merits.

[tnargs]

Fair enough. What are the mirrorless cameras equivalent to a Nikon D5500 (best in class 24mp DX sensor) in image quality/AF capabilities (the 2 components most important I would say) and what is their street price int the US?

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D5500-DX-format-Digital-Black/dp/B00RUBJ7EW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445561062&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+5500

Cheers,
Bernard

Sony A6000 $500, D5500 $750

[telyt]

OK, I understand your point now. What mirrorless camera are you currently using?

Cheers,
Bernard

a7II

[BernardLanguillier]

Sony A6000 $500, D5500 $750

Indeed. Now the a6000 is very close to retirement and Sony is trying to clean up the shelves. But there are indeed some exceptions.

Cheers,
Bernard

[tnargs]

A6000 was always well priced. And mention of retirement suggests age, wrongly. That's just Sony. It's a 2014 model, there are plenty of older models in the Canikon fleets. Your point in raising it escapes me.

[BernardLanguillier]

A6000 was always well priced. And mention of retirement suggests age, wrongly. That's just Sony. It's a 2014 model, there are plenty of older models in the Canikon fleets. Your point in raising it escapes me.

I stand corrected, some mirrorless are cheaper than some DSLRs of equivalent specs.

Btw, I have owned an a5100 since it was released and love the camera, just in case you got the wrong impression that I dislike Sony or mirrorless interchangeable lenses cameras.

Now, the mirrorless I find most appealing (the a6000 isn't not part of them after I shot with one - the a5100 works better for my needs), including the Olympus, the Sony a7r, are priced above their DSLR equivalents.

Cheers,
Bernard

[tnargs]

I agree. For tight budget, new camera, best image quality per dollar, maximum flexibility, easy access to stores and support, best discount offers, and easy resale, whenever someone asks me for advice on "getting my first real camera", I still point them to the Canikon twin zoom kits, entry-level or next model up.

[ErikKaffehr]

Well said!

Best regards
Erik

The idea that Sony will snub certain competitors over sensors is completely unfounded. That is not how business works. For example, Samsung and Apple are at each others throats in the courtroom, but Samsung sells memory to Apple cheaper than it does to its own mobile division because the order value is that much bigger. Same thing with Sony and Nikon . Besides, Nikon works with other fabricators such as Toshiba and Aptina.

The reason Sony spun off their sensor division has nothing to do with competitors. It is simply because of their corporate strategy, which is to make the divisions more accountable. The sensor division has been hitting it out of the park for a while now, but the overall numbers have been bogged down by underperforming divisions such as the mobile phone division. Conversely, the underperforming divisions were "rescued" each quarter by the jewels like the sensor division and the playstation division. Kaz finally had enough and ordered his minions to be accountable for themselves.

Nikon, Pentax, phase, Hasselblad etc. have nothing to worry about in terms of supply and never did.

[MoreOrLess]

Sony A6000 $500, D5500 $750

Is that a sign of cheaper production though or just a body being sold cheaper in the hope of selling more expensive lenses?

[pegelli]

Is that a sign of cheaper production though or just a body being sold cheaper in the hope of selling more expensive lenses?

I don't buy the logic that such big price differences are just there to "hope" they can sell more expensive lenses.
And even it were true I would think the Nikon should then be cheaper then the Sony. Nikon needs to keep people in their ecosystem, Sony knows E-mount is much more adaptable to non Sony lenses, which is I think a contributing factor to why they made the E-mount specs available for free to other manufacturers who are willing to accept their non-financial terms for that (mainly ownership of IP and secrecy).

[Torbjörn Tapani]

You can get a Nikon D750 plus two Otus lenses cheaper than the SL + leica zoom. And you can get a 24-120/4 bundled with that. Hilarious.

[Theodoros]

You can get a Nikon D750 plus two Otus lenses cheaper than the SL + leica zoom. And you can get a 24-120/4 bundled with that. Hilarious.

You should rather replace "you" with "I"... that would mean an opinion... not trying to "advise" others on what to do... i.e. "I can get a Nikon D750 plus two Otus lenses cheaper than the SL + leica zoom." ...one should then reply, ..."Go ahead, I have my own plans for my type of work..."!

[eronald]

You should rather replace "you" with "I"... that would mean an opinion... not trying to "advise" others on what to do... i.e. "I can get a Nikon D750 plus two Otus lenses cheaper than the SL + leica zoom." ...one should then reply, ..."Go ahead, I have my own plans for my type of work..."!

I think this *Leica* is not much use to me, and not much of a step forward for the rest of photographing humanity, either. Now that's my opinion, *you* may or may not want to agree.

*You* can get this Leica for the price of ... ,  (but I can't coz I'm too poor).  Now that's either a statement of fact or a misstatement, but not an opinion

Leica will market an interchangeable lens medium format camera for less than $12K next year. Now that's a falsifiable prediction, not an opinion

I think it's late and I am polluting this forum with a bargain-basement course on rhetoric. Now that's a tautology.

Edmund

[Rob C]

I think this *Leica* is not much use to me, and not much of a step forward for the rest of photographing humanity, either. Now that's my opinion, *you* may or may not want to agree.

*You* can get this Leica for the price of ... ,  (but I can't coz I'm too poor).  Now that's either a statement of fact or a misstatement, but not an opinion

Leica will market an interchangeable lens medium format camera for less than $12K next year. Now that's a falsifiable prediction, not an opinion

I think it's late and I am polluting this forum with a bargain-basement course on rhetoric. Now that's a tautology.

Edmund

Edmund, I know it's Paris and all that, but easy on the absinthe! Shhhrelanté! Now that's a neologism.

Rob C

[Theodoros]

Neology, tautology... It's all Greek to me!   

[synn]

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/56286-leica-sl-601-oct-20th-post665703.html#post665703

In case any one were wondering. No CS shutter support with S lenses and none planned, which means none with H lenses as well. Leaf shutters in 35mm format remains a pipe dream.

No EFCS either, something the A7R was crucified for.