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Author Topic: Another Epson 7900 question  (Read 11482 times)

jhemp

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Another Epson 7900 question
« on: August 08, 2015, 08:14:27 pm »

A few weeks ago my Cyan channel started missing 8 lines right trough the middle of the nozzle check print pattern.  I was getting horrible banding in blue skies!!  So I ran multiple cleanings, paired, power, and power paired. No fix!  Then I tried the windex and paper towel solution over the course of a few days and no fix.  Since the printer was not under warranty(2yrs old and already had head replaced a year ago) I said 'f*ck it'  and I removed the head myself and then used a syringe and tube to push windex and distilled water through each head multiple times.  Put the head back in and ran a cleaning cycle then printed another nozzle check and it didn't change a damn thing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  WTF?  So I did the whole process again taking the head out to no avail.  Does anyone have any idea what might be going on?  Would specialty cleaning fluids help?  This printer has been the bane of my  printing existence!  I can shelf my 3880 for six months and fire it back up with zero issues, but this thing is a constant clog monster!!!  PLEASE HELP!!

davidh202

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2015, 11:42:06 pm »

If you have some free time I suggest strongly that you read the Never Ending Thread on the 7900   http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=61585.0

Wait... I'll save you some time...
  You have f***ed up your head, it's dead! Buy a new machine any brand you like, just don't waste more time and money on this one!!  ::)

David
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 11:44:06 pm by davidh202 »
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datro

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 10:53:52 am »

I would have to agree with the previous poster...I think your head is now probably toast if it wasn't before you removed it.

In general, here's what I would do if I suddenly start seeing a block of nozzles missing in a channel:

1) Pair CL1 clean in ServiceMode
2) If nothing improved, do a Pair CL2 clean in ServiceMode
3) If some nozzles come back but some are still missing:  Replace the Ink Cartridge with a new one, especially if the current cartridge is very low, and do another CL1 or CL2 cleaning.  I've found in some cases that missing nozzle problems seem to increase when ink cartridges are very low or close to being empty.  My sense is that when cartridges get low, and especially if there are multiple cartridges running low on one ink supply side of the printer (left or right) there may be pressurization problems in the related ink lines.  Just a hunch on my part but I've seen this pattern.

If you are still missing the same nozzles at this point, you might try a CL3 pair clean, but it is likely that you've had an electromechanical failure in the head (not a clog).
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Garnick

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 12:07:52 pm »

I would have to agree with the previous poster...I think your head is now probably toast if it wasn't before you removed it.

In general, here's what I would do if I suddenly start seeing a block of nozzles missing in a channel:

1) Pair CL1 clean in ServiceMode
2) If nothing improved, do a Pair CL2 clean in ServiceMode
3) If some nozzles come back but some are still missing:  Replace the Ink Cartridge with a new one, especially if the current cartridge is very low, and do another CL1 or CL2 cleaning.  I've found in some cases that missing nozzle problems seem to increase when ink cartridges are very low or close to being empty.  My sense is that when cartridges get low, and especially if there are multiple cartridges running low on one ink supply side of the printer (left or right) there may be pressurization problems in the related ink lines.  Just a hunch on my part but I've seen this pattern.

If you are still missing the same nozzles at this point, you might try a CL3 pair clean, but it is likely that you've had an electromechanical failure in the head (not a clog).

I agree with all of the above suggestions.  However, I would add two more to the list.  First, run a full colour print after each cleaning cycle.  Secondly, run an 8x10 document with only the colour of the problem nozzle - in this case, Cyan.  That can usually help in situations like this.  Above and beyond all of these suggestions is the fact that I have never been a fan of the Windex treatment, especially if it contains any percentage of ammonia.  If you are determined to try the procedure you have mentioned, why not order one of the advertised head cleaning products.  There are at least a couple of companies that sell such products, and I for one would be more inclined to use that than a standard household glass cleaner.  Even distilled water would be better than Windex, but that's my opinion only.  I would probably also agree with the second poster, nuff said.

Gary

  
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 11:09:24 pm by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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cybis

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2015, 01:52:03 pm »

So I ran multiple cleanings, paired, power, and power paired. No fix!

First, run a full colour print after each cleaning cycle.  Secondly, run and 8x10 document with only the colour of the problem nozzle - in this case, Cyan.  That can usually help in situations like this.

/rant
The truth is, as far as I know, there is no known procedure that can help in situations like this. Why is Lula replete with claims that this is recoverable? Has anyone ever recovered an x900 printhead from clogs that wouldn’t clear from multiple cleanings? Nope!

The Epson 4900 / 7900 / 9900 are waste tank filing machines that can occasionally be used to print.
/rant

Edit: added ref. to 4900
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 03:15:52 pm by cybis »
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jhemp

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2015, 02:00:17 pm »

Thanks for the replies.  Before I removed the head I did CL1-CL4 cleanings with no improvement.  My cyan ink cartridge(350ml) is only two months old with lots of ink left so I don't want to get another ink cartridge.  It was much easier to remove the head than what I thought it might have been.  I can get the head out safely in under ten minutes.  When I cleaned the head it appeared visually fine, and my windex and then distilled water washes all pushed through the heads just fine.  I could see no difference in the way the cleaning solutions were coming out of the heads(Very fine streams).  But this did nothing to make the head better or worse it just stayed the same.  The printer still prints great B/W so I guess my work will now start leaning towards B/W.  I sure as hell ain't dropping another $2000-$3000 on a printer after this experience.  
J

GeraldB

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2015, 02:45:59 pm »

Sound very similar to my experience which is here
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=98912.0

In my case I replaced the head as it was the lowest cost way to be printing again.

Garnick

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2015, 05:23:13 pm »

/rant
The truth is, as far as I know, there is no known procedure that can help in situations like this. Why is Lula replete with claims that this is recoverable? Has anyone ever recovered an x900 printhead from clogs that wouldn’t clear from multiple cleanings? Nope!

The Epson 4900 / 7900 / 9900 are waste tank filing machines that can occasionally be used to print.
/rant

Edit: added ref. to 4900

Hmmmmm :-X...Another "rant" from the Canon/HP corner no doubt.  As usual, rants are seldom helpful or productive, but I suppose somehow satisfying for the author.  Ignored by others of course, but, c'est la vie.

Gary  

« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 05:26:11 pm by Garnick »
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sportmaster

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2015, 05:27:51 pm »

In my experience, persistent, aggressive cleanings paid off.  I was given a near new condition 4900 that had sat unused for two years.  The original owner gave it to me because he couldn't clear the clogs.

I spent two months doing multiple daily Windex head cleanings along with running numerous cleaning cycles.  I also injected Windex into the head through refillable ink cartridges.  Eventually, the clogs started to go, one by one.  Then, one day, everything cleared and it printed perfectly.  The printer has worked perfectly for the last 6 months.

Now I try to print something every two or three days to keep the clogs away.  

Recently I was given another clogged 4900 and I am doing the same process again.  I think many people give up too soon.
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cybis

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2015, 05:35:14 pm »

Hmmmmm :-X...Another "rant" from the Canon/HP corner no doubt.  As usual, rants are seldom helpful or productive,

Actually Gary, I'm a (disgruntled) Epson 9900 owner...

I was pointing out the fact that it is unhelpful and unproductive to try to recover an x900 printhead using methods such as the one you suggested. It never works. It just wastes time and ink.
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Garnick

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2015, 11:40:09 pm »

/rant
The truth is, as far as I know, there is no known procedure that can help in situations like this. Why is Lula replete with claims that this is recoverable? Has anyone ever recovered an x900 printhead from clogs that wouldn’t clear from multiple cleanings? Nope!

Edit: added ref. to 4900

Well, there is another truth lingering here at LuLa, and that is as follows.  "The truth is, as far as you know" only goes as far as you know.  I would be quite prepared to bet that there are many hundreds of 9900 owners who have cleared what you might refer to as unrecoverable printhead "clogs", which in many cases might not be "clogs" at all, but some other unknown circumstance.  Cartridge pressure drop is a well known cause of nozzle dropouts.  The point being that those situations were likely never reported on this or any other forum, since they were indeed resolved rather quickly and efficiently.  Just last week I had printed 60-16x20s and several 40x60s in succession and the 9900 suddenly dropped the light cyan channel halfway through the last 40x60.  I've seen this happen before, so I didn't panic or create a "rant".  I started up in service mode, ran a CL1 which recovered about half of the channel and the second CL1 cycle brought the rest back.  I had also run about a dozen large canvases as well as some Epson Cold Press Natural, after which I thoroughly cleaned the paper path and pressure rollers.  The debris deposited by these products can play havoc with a printhead, as I'm sure you aware of.  So as you can imagine, after using the 9900 for more than 5 years I have seen my share of "clogs" as well as other issues, but I have never ranted on this or any other print forum.  I have asked questions and learned a lot on this forum, as we all have.  However, if you identify one forum member trying to help another member as a "rant", so be it.  That's you opinion and you have every right to harbor that opinion.  By the same token, I have every right to disagree with your assessment of the situation. And again, nuff said.  At least on my part.

Gary        
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 11:42:36 pm by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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cybis

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 01:21:04 am »

However, if you identify one forum member trying to help another member as a "rant", so be it.  That's you opinion and you have every right to harbor that opinion.  By the same token, I have every right to disagree with your assessment of the situation.

Gary, clearly, you feel offended by my post and I'm sorry about that. In an attempt at humour, and as a warning, I self identified my post as a rant not yours. (EDIT: I meant that anything between the two '/rant' in my post is to be considered my rant.) So there may be a little bit of misunderstanding there.

I appreciate your numerous helpful posts here. Just as you and many others, I'm trying to help too. Not too long ago I would have been inclined to give the very same advices you gave here. As a matter of fact, many Lula members have visited my page with instructions on how to print using pure individual channel or all channels that would help a user perform just what you recommend: http://lucbusquin.com/content/purge-all-epson-x900-ink-channels

I'm on my second head failure and, yes, I'm more than a little miffed at Epson. Just like you, I babysit my printer, religiously change the wiper, humidity control the room at exactly 50% RH, minimize dust, use a dust cover, exercise the printer regularly, I don't panic, etc., etc. I'm glad your experience is different, but it is undeniable that a disproportionate number of Epson x900 printers are lemons, and that through no fault of the user many printheads will fail. .

My contention is that if you have the problem identified by the OP, i.e. an x900 printer that was printing normally until it shows missing nozzles that do not clear after 'multiple cleanings, paired, power, and power paired', printing 'an 8x10 document with only the colour of the problem nozzle' is not going to help. I would love to be proved wrong as it would save many of us beaucoup bucks.

Why would the success stories not be reported? That would be really weird.

Sportmaster report is encouraging, but his case might be different, i.e. a properly functioning x900 printer that then sat for an extended period of time can be revived using the method he used. He didn't say if the printer was functioning properly prior the extended sit, it would be interesting to know. (EDIT: turns out he does say the printer was clogging)

Can anyone report that they successfully recovered a normally printing x900 printer with no near empty cartridges, that suddenly exhibits missing nozzles which do not improve after two cl4 cleanings, two power cleanings, and one SS cleaning with a day rest in between, without changing the printhead and/or other parts? I've read about a single success story using the ink charge feature (EDIT: +sportmaster). I would like to hear if there is any other success stories out there.

My point is not to be a Debbie Downer but to help users not throw good money after bad.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 01:48:26 am by cybis »
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cybis

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2015, 01:42:17 am »

In my experience, persistent, aggressive cleanings paid off.  I was given a near new condition 4900 that had sat unused for two years.  The original owner gave it to me because he couldn't clear the clogs.

I spent two months doing multiple daily Windex head cleanings along with running numerous cleaning cycles.  I also injected Windex into the head through refillable ink cartridges.  Eventually, the clogs started to go, one by one.  Then, one day, everything cleared and it printed perfectly.  The printer has worked perfectly for the last 6 months.

Now I try to print something every two or three days to keep the clogs away.  

Recently I was given another clogged 4900 and I am doing the same process again.  I think many people give up too soon.

This is encouraging. Can you provide more details as to what exact procedures you used. How many and what type of cleaning? SS cleaning ever? Which type of Windex? Did you remove the head? Any details you recall on the nozzle check pattern (simply missing, or deflected nozzle). Thank you.
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sportmaster

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2015, 08:15:23 am »

The 4900 I received had more than half the colors totally clogged.

My cleaning methods were those found on the web including; windex soaked paper towels left under the head. Scrubbing by pulling a soaked towel back and forth under the head. Many, many cleaning cycles.  Cleaning fluid into the head through refillable ink cartridges.  Cleaning the capping stations and wiper.

I probably used two bottles of windex  over a two month period.
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deanwork

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2015, 08:30:43 am »

I think a lot of what people are calling "clogs" is really a poorly fitting cap station. Where the head is not sealed properly during the cleaning cycle. It seems to me this is why there are numerous stories about people having Epson put in multiple heads and still not resolving the issue.

I'm sure it won't solve all problems with all people, but for me just putting a little distilled water in the cap station and putting the head back on it for an hour before doing more cleaning cycles solved my two completely missing  nozzles.

They probably should replace the cap cleaning station before ever attempting to do anything with the head, and after that the dampers. Those parts can be bought at Compas Micro in Portland and are relatively cheap.

john
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Garnick

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2015, 08:33:18 am »

Gary, clearly, you feel offended by my post and I'm sorry about that. In an attempt at humour, and as a warning, I self identified my post as a rant not yours. (EDIT: I meant that anything between the two '/rant' in my post is to be considered my rant.) So there may be a little bit of misunderstanding there.

I appreciate your numerous helpful posts here. Just as you and many others, I'm trying to help too. Not too long ago I would have been inclined to give the very same advices you gave here. As a matter of fact, many Lula members have visited my page with instructions on how to print using pure individual channel or all channels that would help a user perform just what you recommend: http://lucbusquin.com/content/purge-all-epson-x900-ink-channels

I'm on my second head failure and, yes, I'm more than a little miffed at Epson. Just like you, I babysit my printer, religiously change the wiper, humidity control the room at exactly 50% RH, minimize dust, use a dust cover, exercise the printer regularly, I don't panic, etc., etc. I'm glad your experience is different, but it is undeniable that a disproportionate number of Epson x900 printers are lemons, and that through no fault of the user many printheads will fail. .

My contention is that if you have the problem identified by the OP, i.e. an x900 printer that was printing normally until it shows missing nozzles that do not clear after 'multiple cleanings, paired, power, and power paired', printing 'an 8x10 document with only the colour of the problem nozzle' is not going to help. I would love to be proved wrong as it would save many of us beaucoup bucks.

Why would the success stories not be reported? That would be really weird.

Sportmaster report is encouraging, but his case might be different, i.e. a properly functioning x900 printer that then sat for an extended period of time can be revived using the method he used. He didn't say if the printer was functioning properly prior the extended sit, it would be interesting to know. (EDIT: turns out he does say the printer was clogging)

Can anyone report that they successfully recovered a normally printing x900 printer with no near empty cartridges, that suddenly exhibits missing nozzles which do not improve after two cl4 cleanings, two power cleanings, and one SS cleaning with a day rest in between, without changing the printhead and/or other parts? I've read about a single success story using the ink charge feature (EDIT: +sportmaster). I would like to hear if there is any other success stories out there.

My point is not to be a Debbie Downer but to help users not throw good money after bad.


OK, fair enough.  If I misinterpreted your initial post and the rant comment I apologize.  However, it would take a lot more than anything you wrote to offend me.  Life is simply too short for that.  I was just trying to point out the "fact" that forums like these are seldom visited by folks who have no problems with their equipment etc.  These are not simply chat rooms.  People come here because they do indeed have problems and questions for which they are trying to find solutions and answers.  Before I took possession of my 9900 in early 2010 I had already started what I loosely titled an "issue" log for the printer, based on what I had learned from this forum.  I knew what to look for and when I saw some of these problems that didn't seem to be easily rectified I would spend some time with Epson in a phone call and arrange a service call from there.  Of course the first year was covered under warranty and "issues" log had expanded and was looking rather bloated by the end of the first year of operation.  Numerous service calls, including printhead exchanges and other parts swapped out as well.  As the end of the initial warranty period drew near I decided I had to extend the warranty for the following year.  As you are probably aware, not an inexpensive decision at $1050CDN.  However, my printer is my business and I needed to be able to sleep at night, not worrying about possible work issues.  During the second year there were other issues, again covered by the extended warranty.  A new cleaning/capping station(x2) and replacement of the left ink bay(leakage).  Then another head replacement etc.  I then extended the warranty again for the third and final time.  By the start of the third year the printer seemed to be performing much better and has done so since.  Then of course there was Eric's invaluable post that helped all of us to a great extent.  My maintenance procedures have so far proven to be successful and the 9900 is clicking along very nicely.  I've been in the photography custom lab business since late 1968 and I've seen and experienced a lot of changes during that time.  But one has choices to make, and mine was to take on the latest learning curve and dive into the deep end of the digital pool.  Again, more changes in customer base and types of work involved to keep the business afloat.  All of this to say that I've also had my share of issues with Epson printers from 2002 onward(4000, 7600 etc), but have always stayed the course with that company.  In all, no regrets.

Now, after my apparent initial misunderstanding, I will freely admit that if someone were to interpret this post as somewhat of a "rant", I could likely not offer any sort of plausible argument to that assumption.  Or, in a less wordy version, they would probably be quite correct.  And again, c'est la vie ;)

Gary    


    
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2015, 11:06:02 am »

I think a lot of what people are calling "clogs" is really a poorly fitting cap station. Where the head is not sealed properly during the cleaning cycle. It seems to me this is why there are numerous stories about people having Epson put in multiple heads and still not resolving the issue.

I'm sure it won't solve all problems with all people, but for me just putting a little distilled water in the cap station and putting the head back on it for an hour before doing more cleaning cycles solved my two completely missing  nozzles.

They probably should replace the cap cleaning station before ever attempting to do anything with the head, and after that the dampers. Those parts can be bought at Compas Micro in Portland and are relatively cheap.

john

I think this is a valuable contribution - it conforms with a very hands-on experienced observation I've received concerning the 4900 (near-same technology) - most of the issue with clogs/drops is due to problems with the capping/cleaning assembly and rarely the printhead. As well, verbal advice from the same source and other reliable ones I've read emphatically recommend NOT using Ammonia-based Windex in an x900 printhead. It's OK for cleaning around it and the capping station, but not the head.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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cybis

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2015, 12:47:52 pm »

My cleaning methods were those found on the web including; windex soaked paper towels left under the head. Scrubbing by pulling a soaked towel back and forth under the head. Many, many cleaning cycles.  Cleaning fluid into the head through refillable ink cartridges.  Cleaning the capping stations and wiper.

I probably used two bottles of windex  over a two month period.

So you more or less followed this procedure: Inkjetmall video: How to Professionally Clean Epson 7890, 9890, 7900 & 9900 printers

When you say cleaning fluid into the head, you mean Windex, correct? Windex Commercial Line Original, Windex Original (non commercial line), or another one of the many different type of Windex?

Which type of cleaning cycle were you running?

Sorry for being so insistant, but your experience is valuable, and therefore I think the details might be important.

Mark's warning is duly noted; Windex contain Ammonium Hydroxide which is corrosive to aluminum, copper, zinc, and galvanized alloys. However, we have this and others first hand success story and I haven't found any first hand horror stories (which is not to say there isn't any), only vague warnings.
 
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2015, 12:58:52 pm »


Mark's warning is duly noted; Windex contain Ammonium Hydroxide which is corrosive to aluminum, copper, zinc, and galvanized alloys. However, we have this and others first hand success story and I haven't found any first hand horror stories (which is not to say there isn't any), only vague warnings.
 

Hi Luc - firstly, some very nice work on your website. I like those B&W aerials - most effective.

Now the warning on Windex containing Ammonia - for clarity, there is nothing vague about what I was told. I was told it could destroy the head. Now whether there are people on the Internet confirming that they destroyed their printheads in this manner to me wouldn't be a consideration. Once a trained professional in the service-end of the business who knows these machines from the inside out tells me that, I take it as "fair warning", not vague warning  :-). If you've used it and it hasn't destroyed your head, consider yourself fortunate so far - but if I were you I would stop using it.
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deanwork

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Re: Another Epson 7900 question
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2015, 02:04:18 pm »

I have been told that the new print heads have a surface coating on them that is degraded by ammonia and probably other solvents as well.

The old Epson print heads could handle the windex treatment, and just about anything you threw at them, but I wouldn't dare do it with the new ones.

Usually what you need is a little dampness on the cap station and clean the wiper blade without bending it out of position. It is a pretty flakey little piece of sheet metal. This one little wiper blade is inadequate to function well with a 10 channel printer, so I would check that often.  Both of these procedures can be accomplished by a tiny amount of distilled water and a lit free cloth. Don't go spraying anything in a spray bottle back there anyway. There is way too much electronic circuitry that you can easily blow the head board.  I did that on a printer many years ago, and you feel like a dork when it happens.

When you do this servicing start as you would do a nozzle check and when the head is released then open the front cover, unplug the printer, find a good light to work with and do as little damage as is possible.

Again, my feeling is that "busting clogs" is not what we are up against 90% of the time I think it is as Mark said, a bad fit of the head with the cleaning station. There are other pressure issues with these new Epsons but  I don't believe actually a "clogging" of ink particles into the nozzles of the print head have anything to do with it. My theory is they are replacing way more heads than they need to and not servicing these printers they way they should, or advising people to keep that station damp.

I think t really that hey should completely redesign the cleaning station and wiper blade assembly. Hopefully they did do that with the latest versions that will be released soon. When you are talking about a small 3880 that is one thing but these big ones have a very big head. It's really twice the size of my old 9600s heads, and yet the cap station and wiper blades are not professional looking to me.



john
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