Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Sony a7r II announced...  (Read 40043 times)

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2015, 03:42:17 pm »

hehe, yes.

So...the A7R2 should have superior image quality to the older A7R. I never ended up testing the A7R to compare in studio setting vs a MF back in the same or lesser mpixel range. But if it can compete in the fine detail area of things, it would be great to have the flexible use of the A7R. My Canon would still be my goto for anything a bit rough on the gear.

Now with 41+ mpixels...the big question I would have is the buffer! this was the problem years back when they made mpixel jumps, then it matured with fat buffers and speeds to move files fast.

So if we know the A7R's buffer, which we might have easily on hand, and unless the related parts and sw are updated, it could be taking a hit.
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

BrianVS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 159
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2015, 04:06:08 pm »

I always format the memory card using the camera. We are talking off-topic about memory cards used in cameras to store images, aren't we?

If a card cannot be formatted using the utility from the organization that sets the standard, it's a poorly designed card- at least not designed to spec.

Since the thread ventured into single-slot vs double-slot, the subject of Card failure is certainly on topic.

In my 34 years of using Digital imagers- I've seen media failure, but only one time that I wish that my M9 had two card slots. Lost a great picture of me posing with Sully and Mike at Disneyworld. The 7-track mag tape used with the Infrared Imager that had extra bits in the inter-record-gap, recovered those images by running the tape backwards.

If you are not interested, just skip the relevant posts.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 04:12:09 pm by BrianVS »
Logged

Isaac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3123
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2015, 04:49:58 pm »

If you are not interested, just skip the relevant posts.

How can we tell if comments are irrelevant without reading them :-)
Logged

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2015, 04:59:21 pm »

I wonder how difficult it would be for Sony to make a grip that not only has another battery, but another card slot for those times when you want dual card slots?

Has anyone ever made a grip with another card slot or data port?
Time to start filming your promotional Kickstarter video for this idea.....
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2015, 05:04:19 pm »

Backlash within hours of announcement! Good job! ;-)
You have never had a problem with a memory card?
I have had way too many and single slots do give me cause for concern.

No I have never had a memory card fail; but my amusement was with the cataclysmic terms in which that possibility was presented, as-if that same single  feature should be the overwhelming consideration for every other potential camera buyer.
Card failure is catastrophic if shooting professionally or even personally, losing your images is the worst outcome regardless of pro status. Now seeing as this is a flagship camera which may tempt pros to use the Sony system, it should have been a higher priority.


« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:13:54 pm by jjj »
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2015, 05:22:40 pm »

3rd time I was running out of room and needed to swap the card from a 1Ds to a 5D, and the entire card was bricked after I started shooting with the 5D. After a format all was good with the card. ALL images were lost! All concert footage for the 20-30min was gone.
If you formatted it to carry on using it, then obviously you are going to lose any shots already captured on card. I'd have not carried on with card at all if it had already given me problems. I would have put it to one side and taken it home to recover shots and then binned it.

Quote
I'm not sure how dual would help this situation, but I think it would be great to right jpgs to one and raw to the other. Maybe just for preview with a in camera effect to show
Record raw to both, that way if one card dies, you lose nothing. You can shoot raw and still have camera effect previews as there is a small jpeg contained within the raw file so as to do be able to do previews.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2015, 05:29:57 pm »

You should format a memory card every time you put it back into the camera.  Do not just delete the images.
Someone far more knowledgeable than I on a ProPhotography forum I use, wrote about how that is actually not the best thing to do. He explained in great detail as to why. Can't recall as to where to find it sadly as it made for interesting and quite convincing reading.


Quote
When indicating one has had failures, it is important to at least indicate brand.  If you buy cheap CF cards and they fail that is different than having a quality card fail and non comparable between 2 different cards on quality or different types of cards.  We must compare like to like.

I've been using memory cards and CF in particular for about 20 years.  I have had one card 'fail' and it was more a degradation in speed that would probably have ended in failure so I disposed of the card.  This includes twice sending a card through the washer and dryer with no loss of data.  I must admit to never having a SD card failure, but I have much less history with them.  I only use top of the line at the time of purchase  Lexar or Sandisk cards in my cameras.  That would be the Lexar 1066X Professional and Sandisk Extreme Pro cards at my last purchase.
I've tended to buy the top model cards from reputable places and yet had lots of failed Sandisks, CF, SD and Micro SD and in different cameras. Won't go near them now particularly as their after sales attitude was to tell us to go away and stop bothering them. Lexar at least recovered all the data off a card that failed at no charge.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3690
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2015, 05:33:09 pm »

Whatever imaging & storage technology we use, there will always be disaster stories. People have had large-scale film shoots mostly or completely wiped by misadjusted X-ray machines. Or by developing screwups a la Robert Capa on D Day. Some storage cards will crap out whether on their own or via abuse/misuse. You accept the level of risk you can live with and choose your gear accordingly. If the Sony is too risky according to your criteria then it's not the camera system for you.

-Dave-
Logged

dwswager

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1375
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2015, 06:04:20 pm »

Perhaps you should just obsolete what you remember from the first 15 years ;-)

Not when it remain valid.  And my wife reminds me I had a Sandisk 16GB Extreme Pro SD card fail and was replaced by Sandisk.  No image loss, but when I put it back into the camera, it would not recognize it.  So in 20 years 1 almost CF failure and in 2 years of SD use, 1 failure.
Logged

NancyP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2513
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2015, 07:16:06 pm »

I have been using the same 16 G SD card on each Canon camera and the same 4 G card on the Sigma DP Merrill - I do a low level format option in the Canon cameras, they give you a choice, low level or not. At one point I had heard that that was the most reliable and simple way to handle cards. The spare cards (a 16 G for the Canons and a 4G for the Sigma DP Merrill) rarely get used. I suppose that it is a matter of luck if a card fails. The B and H reviews have some failures for each brand and grade of card (except the fancy Hoodman card).
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12724
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2015, 07:31:19 pm »

No I have never had a memory card fail; but my amusement was with the cataclysmic terms in which that possibility was presented, as-if that same single  feature should be the overwhelming consideration for every other potential camera buyer.

I believe it is an important consideration for anyone shooting images that are not easily recreated at a different time.

As far as I am concerned, that is 90% of what I shoot.

In my 15 years experience with digital, memory cards have been by far the weakest link, not to say the only link likely to fail. The biggest problem being that most failures are not detected at the moment of shooting, but after the fact.

This doesn't change the fact that the a7rII is a very appealing camera, especially in combination with a Cambo Actus. But the single slot will be a major pain because it will force me to bring along a surface 3 to do images back up and check in the field which is incredbly impractical. So yes, I really think Sony blew it on that important aspect and my frustration is the result of my interest in the camera.

I haven't written anything about other buyers as far as I recall, please don't put those words in my mouth.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 07:35:09 pm by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

Isaac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3123
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2015, 09:08:12 pm »

Card failure is catastrophic if shooting professionally or even personally, losing your images is the worst outcome regardless of pro status.

You could lose your camera as well as your images.

etc etc
Logged

AFairley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1486
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2015, 09:23:52 pm »

You have never had a problem with a memory card?I have had way too many and single slots do give me cause for concern.
Card failure is catastrophic if shooting professionally or even personally, losing your images is the worst outcome regardless of pro status. Now seeing as this is a flagship camera which may tempt pros to use the Sony system, it should have been a higher priority.

+1

It may be a low-occurrence event, but it is catastrophic when it happens.  Adding a second slot is (relatively) cheap insurance.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12724
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2015, 09:28:13 pm »

I understood - "How is it possible to still produce cameras in 2015 with a single memory card with all the risk it represents?" - to cover any camera made by any manufacturer for any customer.

Was that not your meaning?

Isaac,

Sigh...

Feel free to add a "high end" before camera if that helps you understand what I meant.

Cameras are designed taking into account the most demanding usage among those of the target camera users. That defines the market positioning of a camera. So my statement doesn't in any way apply to all the camera users, nor to all the potential users of the a7rII, but it applies to all the high end cameras - including the a7rII - that are likely to be put in the hands of photographers not willing to take the risk to lose images because of a memory card failure.

Hence the high end addition.

Either Sony doesn't intend the a7rII to be used for critical applications and it would therefore not be a high end camera, or they messed up. My take is that they messed up. Comments in this thread lead me to think that I am not alone to feel that way.

But you are just being picky and cluttering a thread in the process, just for the sake of being picky, aren't you? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 09:41:01 pm by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6628
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2015, 09:42:53 pm »

Isaac,

Sigh...

Feel free to add a "high end" before camera if that helps you understand what I meant.

Cameras are designed taking into account the most demanding usage among those of the target camera users. That defines the market positioning of a camera. So my statement doesn't in any way apply to all the camera users, nor to all the potential users of the a7rII, but it applies to all the high end cameras - including the a7rII - that are likely to be put in the hands of photographers not willing to take the risk to lose images because of a memory card failure.

Hence the high end addition.

Either Sony doesn't intend the a7rII to be used for critical applications and it would therefore not be a high end camera, or they messed up. My take is that they messed up. Comments in this thread lead me to think that I am not alone to feel that way.

But you are just being picky and cluttering a thread in the process, just for the sake of being picky, aren't you? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard


They expect video users to be running an Odyssey or Shogun.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12724
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2015, 09:44:16 pm »

They expect video users to be running an Odyssey or Shogun.

I am sure they do, but the a7rII isn't marketed only as a video camera.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6628
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2015, 10:12:40 pm »

I am sure they do, but the a7rII isn't marketed only as a video camera.

Cheers,
Bernard


Without wanting to be nastier than usual, I'd still venture that no CURRENT  Sony  camera is marketed  for STILLS pros.
People who carry these for stills usually are worried about the camera breaking, not about a card dying and their images being lost, or the contacts corroding.
The A7s and the current A7II are clearly also intended for the video community; but for people who are happy with having a cheap and very capable solution for specialist needs, eg low light for the A7s.


Edmund
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 10:18:35 pm by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12724
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2015, 10:37:42 pm »

Without wanting to be nastier than usual, I'd still venture that no CURRENT  Sony  camera is marketed  for STILLS pros.

Sony did for sure generate significant expectations among photographers due to the spec sheet of the a7rII, but logic dictate that you may be correct.

Cheers,
Bernard

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11250
    • Echophoto
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2015, 01:51:08 am »

Hi,

Sony used to assign a nine in the camera name to indicate a top of the line model. Think Dynax 9, Sony Alpha 900 and Sony Alpha 99. Only the Alpha 99 had usable dual slots, though.

AFAIK the Phase One P-series didn't have dual slots, so it is very clear that level of system may do with a single memory card.

Best regards
Erik

Isaac,

Sigh...

Feel free to add a "high end" before camera if that helps you understand what I meant.

Cameras are designed taking into account the most demanding usage among those of the target camera users. That defines the market positioning of a camera. So my statement doesn't in any way apply to all the camera users, nor to all the potential users of the a7rII, but it applies to all the high end cameras - including the a7rII - that are likely to be put in the hands of photographers not willing to take the risk to lose images because of a memory card failure.

Hence the high end addition.

Either Sony doesn't intend the a7rII to be used for critical applications and it would therefore not be a high end camera, or they messed up. My take is that they messed up. Comments in this thread lead me to think that I am not alone to feel that way.

But you are just being picky and cluttering a thread in the process, just for the sake of being picky, aren't you? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12724
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Sony a7r II announced...
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2015, 02:56:39 am »

AFAIK the Phase One P-series didn't have dual slots, so it is very clear that level of system may do with a single memory card.

Erik,

Indeed, a bit hard to understand for me as well. Now many serious shooters use them thethered, so the impact may overall be less.

Btw, is it still the case with the IQxxx backs?

Cheers,
Bernard
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Up