rumor: Pentax 645D Price: $6500 USD

[Nemo]

This camera should be presented tomorrow 10th March, at the CP+ Yokohama Show...

The camera seems to be a great design. The question is the price.

[fredjeang]

[attachment=20772:Untitled.jpg]

There's a news update #4 on the teaserpage that seems to confirm 40mpx.

That is a good news indeed. I was frightened that Pentax would have done less but I see that they are doing things just right.
Their last dslr are telling that it actually is a good company.

[RazorTM]

I didn't read through this whole thread, but the News #1 from that site says that the camera has a sensor approximately 1.7x the size of a 35mm full frame sensor.  After doing some math with the H4D-40, I've determined that the 33.1x44.2mm sensor from that camera is 1.69x the area of a 35mm frame, so Pentax is obviously using basically the same sensor.

[BJNY]

I didn't read through this whole thread, but the News #1 from that site says that the camera has a sensor approximately 1.7x the size of a 35mm full frame sensor.  
After doing some math with the H4D-40, I've determined that the 33.1x44.2mm sensor from that camera is 1.69x the area of a 35mm frame,
so Pentax is obviously using basically the same sensor.

Rumors of Pentax 645D started years ago mentioned 18mpx, 31mpx and now 40mpx sensor...all 33x44 size.
Unsure until now that Pentax wasn't using previous generation 31mpx sensor to achieve certain price point.

[hsmeets]

I didn't read through this whole thread, but the News #1 from that site says that the camera has a sensor approximately 1.7x the size of a 35mm full frame sensor.  After doing some math with the H4D-40, I've determined that the 33.1x44.2mm sensor from that camera is 1.69x the area of a 35mm frame, so Pentax is obviously using basically the same sensor.

Who knows, maybe it is the Kodak KAF-40000. Apparently that sensor is used in the H4D-40 too......in a few days we will know more.

[BJNY]

Pentax have never really followed the herd, the old 645 always used those 'plug in' film inserts unlike the removable backs of the others.

Thankfully,
I remember the Pentax 645 having bright, magnified view via their telescope style prism design;  
and the film advance being quiet and buttery smooth via rubber? belt? drive?

Looking forward to the official specs.

[gwhitf]

The only time I've ever seen anyone actually use one of those Pentax 645's was in some PBS art show called "Egg", years ago. It was a feature on David LaChapelle. He seemed to keep the Profoto ringlight permanently attached to that Pentax camera, nonstop. That was his style at that time. I can't find the show on the web, but it's an interesting view if you can find it. Here's the closest I can find:

http://www.logotv.com/shows/dyn/eye_candy/about.jhtml

[aaron]

It is looking like a lot of camera for the rumoured $6,500, I think there's been something lost in translation there, it has to cost more.

[BJNY]

Could be $6,500

if you recall what Mamiya ZD was selling for (was it $8-10K at launch, decreasing to $6K ?)
At that time, it had more expensive and larger 36x48 size 22mpx Dalsa sensor.

[smoody]

It is looking like a lot of camera for the rumoured $6,500, I think there's been something lost in translation there, it has to cost more.

Perhaps it costs 6,500 Megadollars.    

[michael]

I reviewed the Pentax 645nII back in 2002 and thought very highly about it and its lenses,

My concern is with the digital side. Mamiya showed us with the ZD backs and camera that it isn't enough to simply put a large Kodak CCD sensor in a body. You also need the secret digital sauce. This is hard earned knowledge which just isn't that easy to come buy. Only Phase One, Hasselblad, Leaf and Leica currently have the expertise to make a high quality state-of-the-art medium format back or body at this time.

I hope that I'm wrong about the Pentax. It's been still-born now for some six years, I recall that Pentax had a mock-up which I saw on display at Photokina in 2006.

So let's get a bit excited about it, because if it can deliver it'll shake up the industry. But specs aren't enough. We have to get hold of one and get out and shoot with it before we'll know for sure.

Michael

[hsmeets]

It is looking like a lot of camera for the rumoured $6,500, I think there's been something lost in translation there, it has to cost more.

not neccesarily so, maybe they were able to reuse a lot of electronic components from the DSLR line like the image processing asic and firmware, too some extend it just needs to crunch bigger files and be adjusted for the signals coming from the sensor. Basically like in Photoshop: sharpening a small file or a big file, the algorithem is the same, only the parameters may be different.

Sourcing the sensor outside lowers R&D costs too but may proof expensive in the long run...

So maybe it is feasible to have an aggressive price tag attached.....

[gwhitf]

You also need the secret digital sauce. This is hard earned knowledge which just isn't that easy to come buy.

That is the key thing right there -- the secret sauce. Do they have it? I have my doubts. (Look at Leica).

There are a million questions.

But without telling David Grover this, my feeling is that this Pentax camera will be a massive success if it does nothing more than make Hasselblad sit up and take notice that there is a market for a stripped-down, fast-shooting H camera/back, that's comparable in price to a D3x, or even five grand higher.

For me, Phase has gone off in another direction, chasing megapixels and trying to hit the $100,000 mark for a camera/back. But for Hasselblad, I still have high hopes. But whatever it is, with any brand, it's got to be under $10k for basic kit, out the door. Including floor mats. We all live in a sub-$10k world right now, and it's not going to change any time soon.

[BJNY]

Hoping specs from highly regarded Pentax K7 find their way to Pentax 645D.

at the very least:
• 3 inch LCD with 921,000 dot resolution
• Weather, dust and cold resistant
• electronic level function

would be a coup if they implemented
• in-body shake reduction
• sensor cleaning

[bcooter]

My concern is with the digital side. Mamiya showed us with the ZD backs and camera that it isn't enough to simply put a large Kodak CCD sensor in a body. You also need the secret digital sauce. This is hard earned knowledge which just isn't that easy to come buy. Only Phase One, Hasselblad, Leaf and Leica currently have the expertise to make a high quality state-of-the-art medium format back or body at this time.
Michael

Maybe so, I guess we'll see soon, though I wonder if digital isn't digital.  I mean Pentax has been doing digital for quite a while so it's not like Leica or Mamiya (pre Phase One)  that had to come in somewhat new and start from scratch.

Back in the pre digital days, about an hour and a half before digital, I tested for my own use the original H, the Contax and the Pentax.

I liked the Pentax, especially the look of the lenses.  They were smoother in the graduations that the hard biting Ziess lenses of the Contax, with the H falling somewhere in between.

I also didn't mind the shape, though it wasn't a camera I loved, it was a camera I liked, though I remember in the test it focused faster and more accurately than the other two cameras, but things could have changed since then.

The deal killer of it was the non removable back (once again pre digital) because you had to have a bunch of inserts with looked kind of fragile and the only way to shoot a polaroid was with one of those Forscher backs with the big chunk of optic block.

I think the Polaroid back was $2,800 or more and I thought that was a lot.  (Funny how then I thought $2,800 for any back was a lot of money).

Anyway I went with the Contax because it was in rental everywhere (then) and the Contax was a camera I loved, more than liked (if that makes any sense).

Now I don't think rentals are that important because everybody's main backup is a Canon or Nikon anyway, so if this really is 40mpx and it really does sell for $6,500 AND they don't make the medium format mistakes of small buffers, gltichy tethering  software with a lot of updates, limited lcds and longggggg wait times on delivery I think it is brilliant.

Still it's the $6,500 thing that makes it interesting, though now that I think about it with my Contax and P30+ I now probably have a $6,500 medium format camera.

Hmm.


BC

P.S.  Didn't Mamiya used a 22mpx Dalsa Sensor which was pretty much a past generation by the time it hit the shelves?

[BJNY]

Didn't Mamiya used a 22mpx Dalsa Sensor which was pretty much a past generation by the time it hit the shelves?

Same larger 36x48 Dalsa 22mpx sensor is now inside current Leaf AptusII-5 at $8K

[bcooter]

Same larger 36x48 Dalsa 22mpx sensor is now inside current Leaf AptusII-5 at $8K

Didn't mean there was anything wrong with the Dalsa 22mpx sensor.  I had it in a Valeo and the first Aptus 22.

It would moire fairly easily and is slow, low iso, but it made a damn pretty file, especially processed in old photoshop CS2.

Personally as long as you don't have moire or artifacts anything equal to 22mpx is fine with me.   I have processed the Aptus next to the P30 and couldn't see that much if any difference in detail so  . . . it's kind of a wash.

As far as the "secret sauce" of digital, there is no medium format company that at one time or the other hasn't had their issues in processing.  Some less than others, but they've all had issues, updates and delays.

Actually when you think about  it none of the medium format makers has made a trillion consumer grade cameras.  I would think that would be a pretty good learning ground for stepping up to higher end digital capture.

But like Michael and everyone says, until it hits the hands nobody knows.

Still . . . 6,500 bucks . . .

BC

[BJNY]

.

[Doug Peterson]

For me, Phase has gone off in another direction, chasing megapixels and trying to hit the $100,000 mark for a camera/back. But for Hasselblad, I still have high hopes. But whatever it is, with any brand, it's got to be under $10k for basic kit, out the door. Including floor mats. We all live in a sub-$10k world right now, and it's not going to change any time soon.

With the Aptus-II 5 Phase/Leaf have the only 22 megapixel sensor in a back still being made new (with full warranty, modern firmware, beautiful LCD, modern speed etc). The Aptus-II comes with a body and lens for $9,990; the system has a proven track record, attractive upgrade paths, and assurance of future development.

Just because Phase One has the only shipping 60 megapixel back (P65+) for the last 18 months does not mean they are only chasing high resolution. They also (re)invented pixel binnning to allow that flagship back to shoot 15 megapixel files at ISO3200 at 1.4 frames per second.

Having a RANGE of digital backs and developing both the low and high ends means better upgrade paths for customers, and the ability to service a broader range of customers.

Doug Peterson
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[aaron]

beautiful LCD, modern speed

Beautiful LCD & Modern Speed. Who could argue with those specs. Doug, you seriously could make a great lawyer