Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[jeremyrh]

Tesla shares are overpriced if you look at their past history. If you look at 2025-2030 horizon, and if Tesla executes according to their plan, then the 2020 share price will turn out a bargain.

Where did you get 300,000 cars? in 2020, Tesla sold 500,000 cars and this year projection is for 800,000 - 1,000,000. Later this year, Austin and Berlin car factories will start production and they will double the combined output in 2023. In a couple of years, the revenue from autonomous driving software, Robotaxi service, solar roofs, and large house wall batteries will exceed the car hardware revenue.  Not counting revenue from several other products currently under development.

Yes but everyone knows electric cars will never be popular - they are only driven by communists trying to kill the oil industry and create unemployment in Republican states.

[Alan Klein]

Wait a minute. Now you're referring to the nursing home "issue"? In your accusation about Cuomo, before your link to the article, you didn't refer to an "issue". You accused him of "causing deaths in nursing homes". The article included one reference to nursing homes and it was in regard to data reporting not Cuomo "causing deaths". Which is why you're now referring to it as an "issue" instead, to water down your previous statement about "causing deaths" which prefaced your link to the article.

Except for that mention, the rest of the article focused on sexual harassment allegations. Nowhere did the article say anything about Cuomo "causing deaths in nursing homes" as you stated in your preface to the link to it. Then you accuse me of not reading the article when I said your "post above accusing him of causing people to die" was "unrelated" to the article you linked. I read it. There was nothing in it about an impeachment investigation into Cuomo "causing deaths in nursing homes".

Really? I've seen multiple articles about the letter calling for resignation being a joint statement from 59 Democratic NY state senators and assembly members. None said it was written by "the judiciary committee". Where did you come up with that nugget?

The letter mentioned sexual harassment allegations, nursing home data, and lost confidence. It said nothing about "causing deaths in nursing homes" or had any mention of "the judiciary committee".

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cuomo-letter.pdf

You're playing word games.  First I believe Cuomo did cause death in nursing homes by his decision to send sick people back there.  But the impeachment charges won't include that as those are not criminal as far as I can tell at this point.  His not taking responsibility or apologizing is disgraceful, but not criminal. 

But his changing the death figures in reports to make himself look better and then lying about it to government officials and trying to cover it up may be criminal.  Those will be part of the impeachment, as well as the sexual charges.  The impeachment charges could include the deaths themselves if it is found as some claim that he was doing favors for those who gave to his campaigns and wanted the sick people sent back to their nursing homes.  But that wasn't in this article and I'm not making the claim it's true or will be in the impeachment.  There is an investigation going on however about all the circumstances by the Attorney General's office separate from any impeachment hearing the legislature might do.  I'd give 3 to 1 his goose is cooked. Interesting that after all his charges of Trump's Covid malfeasance and sexual exploits, it's Cuomo's impeachment that might stick. 

[faberryman]

Where did you get 300,000 cars?

I take it that is a rhetorical question.

[TechTalk]

You're playing word games.  First I believe Cuomo did cause death in nursing homes by his decision to send sick people back there.  But the impeachment charges won't include that as those are not criminal as far as I can tell at this point.  His not taking responsibility or apologizing is disgraceful, but not criminal. 

Impeachment charges have nothing whatever to do with criminality. It's a political process not a criminal process.

[Robert Roaldi]

You're playing word games.  ...

Oh please.

[faberryman]

Yes but everyone knows electric cars will never be popular - they are only driven by communists trying to kill the oil industry and create unemployment in Republican states.

Obviously.

[Alan Klein]

So it's like t-ball: no winners, no losers, everyone did his best, so everyone gets a certificate of participation, whether he listened to experts, both economic and scientific, or just winged it.

Which experts?  The economic experts who rightly predicted our economy will go into the dumpster? Or medical experts who rightly predicted we were going to suffer from many deaths and illnesses? Here we are a year later.  And governors still are guessing which way to go.  Why?  Because there is no right answer.  We're screwed either way we try to finesse it.  China did a good job on us.  And others in the world as well.

[Alan Klein]

I'm sure some individuals could overcome such a conundrum.
In a way, some resemblance of the described situation exists already now. For instance, the same facts about Tesla are widely available and accessible by everyone and yet, in the investment community there are Tesla bulls and Tesla bears. It depends how their individual brains process or filter out the information.

That's what makes a horse race. Then after it's over, everyone is complaining, I coulda, I shoulda, I woulda.

[digitaldog]

Because there is no right answer.

Sure there are; you just can't accept them or often provide them. So, your concept of no right answer is spot on, for you.
What is Alan's expertise? I've never heard what he did for a living, where he graduated, only that he's retired and getting regular social security check.

[Alan Klein]

Tesla shares are overpriced if you look at their past history. If you look at 2025-2030 horizon, and if Tesla executes according to their plan, then the 2020 share price will turn out a bargain.

Where did you get 300,000 cars? in 2020, Tesla sold 500,000 cars and this year projection is for 800,000 - 1,000,000. Later this year, Austin and Berlin car factories will start production and they will double the combined output in 2023. In a couple of years, the revenue from autonomous driving software, Robotaxi service, solar roofs, and large house wall batteries will exceed the car hardware revenue.  Not counting revenue from several other products currently under development.

You're selling me on them.  Maybe I'll take a flyer.  The question at my age is will I be alive when it's time to sell their stock? 

[faberryman]

Trump made decisions with one eye on not destroying the American economy.  So did the governors and they're still making these decisions.  I see you stopped blaming the president now that Biden took over.  Now it's the governors who are making the decisions.  Well, they always made the decisions.  In any case, none of them can be blamed for trying to foresee the future and hoping their decisions had the best outcomes.  But this situation with Covid left no good choices for anyone.  We were damned if we did and damned if we didn't.  All the blaming was just politics in a presidential election year.

So it's like t-ball: no winners, no losers, everyone did his best, so everyone gets a certificate of participation, whether he listened to experts, both economic and scientific, or just winged it.

Which experts?  The economic experts who rightly predicted our economy will go into the dumpster? Or medical experts who rightly predicted we were going to suffer from many deaths and illnesses? Here we are a year later.  And governors still are guessing which way to go.  Why?  Because there is no right answer.  We're screwed either way we try to finesse it.  China did a good job on us.  And others in the world as well.

So it's like t-ball: no winners, no losers, everyone did his best, so everyone gets a certificate of participation, whether he listened to experts, both economic and scientific, or just winged it.

[Alan Klein]

I take it that is a rhetorical question.

I got the 300,000 from this Jul 2020 opinion stating why the writer thinks Tesla will never get up to Toyota.  The article is 8 months old, so maybe things have changed.  But it might be a good article to read before you invest in Tesla.  Caveat emptor.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-is-not-more-valuable-than-toyota-analysis-2020-7#time-toyota-has-been-worth-a-lot-for-a-long-time-forgetting-about-the-critical-difference-between-toyota-value-as-a-business-and-its-stock-market-value-the-company-has-been-a-a-tremendous-store-of-value-for-decades-tesla-has-been-considered-a-similar-store-for-much-much-less-time-1

[Robert Roaldi]

Some of you may be interested in this podcast from the BBC Trending program, https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszvsq, examining the roots of Trump's calls for election fraud.

Blurb from the podcast page: "Facebook group named Stop the Steal sprung up hours after the US election. It alleged the election had been “rigged”, despite a lack of evidence. But where did the idea come from?"

[Robert Roaldi]

Why do you waste all your time complaining about Trump?  You're obsessed.  Seems like you'd have better things to do as a Canadian.

Why are you trying to to tell me what to talk about?

[Alan Klein]

Impeachment charges have nothing whatever to do with criminality. It's a political process not a criminal process.

  Groping is criminal as would be lying to government officials.  Unlike what happened to Trump where phony charges were used in his impeachments, the New York legislature, especially because they're mainly Democrats like Cuomo, will rise to a higher standard of apparent criminal intent to impeach him.  By the way, impeachment is supposed to be about Crimes.  In the US Consitution, it supposed to be for treason or high crimes and misdemeanours.  Those are all crimes.  Impeachment is a political process but based on crimes, or should be.  Interestingly, NY Consitution is more non-descript than the US constitution.

Section 240 NY: The court for the trial of impeachments has the power to try impeachments, when presented by the assembly, of all civil officers of the state, except justices of the peace, justices of justices' courts, police justices, and their clerks, for willful and corrupt misconduct in office.

You like to read this stuff, so you might find it interesting.  If I've missed anything or got a point or two wrong, please report back to us.
https://gothamist.com/news/so-how-does-impeachment-work-new-york-state
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/JUD/240

[LesPalenik]

I got the 300,000 from this Jul 2020 opinion stating why the writer thinks Tesla will never get up to Toyota.  The article is 8 months old, so maybe things have changed.  But it might be a good article to read before you invest in Tesla.  Caveat emptor.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-is-not-more-valuable-than-toyota-analysis-2020-7#time-toyota-has-been-worth-a-lot-for-a-long-time-forgetting-about-the-critical-difference-between-toyota-value-as-a-business-and-its-stock-market-value-the-company-has-been-a-a-tremendous-store-of-value-for-decades-tesla-has-been-considered-a-similar-store-for-much-much-less-time-1

No point to read and quote an eight months old article. Since then not only their car production picked up, but also TSLA shares rallied and split, so the information in that article will just confuse you more. There are plenty of doomsday articles by Tesla bears, and also some overly optimistic by Tesla fans, so read it all and make up your own mind. As a matter of fact, TSLA shares are quite volatile right now. They dropped recently by 35% from their peak. Today, they are about $690 compared with almost $900 from six weeks ago. That's why this may be a good time to get into it. But I am not a financial advisor, just an independent observer, still driving an old Toyota which is plenty fast for Canadian and US highways.

[TechTalk]

But his changing the death figures in reports to make himself look better and then lying about it to government officials and trying to cover it up may be criminal.  Those will be part of the impeachment, as well as the sexual charges.  The impeachment charges could include the deaths themselves if it is found as some claim that he was doing favors for those who gave to his campaigns and wanted the sick people sent back to their nursing homes.  But that wasn't in this article and I'm not making the claim it's true or will be in the impeachment.  There is an investigation going on however about all the circumstances by the Attorney General's office separate from any impeachment hearing the legislature might do.  I'd give 3 to 1 his goose is cooked.

Let the investigations go forward, regarding who did what and why, and let the chips fall where they may. To be more specific regarding, "changing the death figures in reports" that actually means counting patients who came from a nursing home and then died in a hospital as a hospital death rather than a nursing home death. The total number of deaths was not altered, but where they were counted as occurring in reporting is the center of the dispute.

Interesting that after all his charges of Trump's Covid malfeasance and sexual exploits, it's Cuomo's impeachment that might stick.

It is interesting isn't it? That Democrats are holding one of their own to account. That's the big chunk of my post on your article link that you completely ignored in order to create a distraction.

What you don't acknowledge is that it's the Democratic State Assembly Speaker who has authorized the Judiciary Committee to begin the investigation into those sexual harassment allegations; or that it is the Democratic state Attorney General that has also started an investigation into those allegations as well as nursing home deaths and data reporting; or that the Democratic Mayor of New York and dozens of other NY Democratic elected officials have called for Cuomo to resign; or that other high profile NY Democrats have criticized him and backed the investigations. It's a stark difference compared to Republicans circling the wagons, ass-kissing, and screaming witch-hunt nonstop.

By the way, I don't recall you ever criticizing nursing homes that failed to take proper actions to protect residents, but for some reason focus only on Cuomo. Have you ever so much as glanced at the Attorney General's report?

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021-nursinghomesreport.pdf

[digitaldog]

December 14th to today; of course, all kudos to Trump 

The U.S. has now administered over 100 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine — 101.1 million, to be precise — according to figures posted Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
That equates to more than 35 million Americans fully vaccinated — 10.5% of the total U.S. population. Nearly 66 million, or almost 20% of the total population, have gotten at least one dose. Nearly one-third of Americans age 65 and older are fully vaccinated.
Since the first shot in the nationwide rollout was given on December 14, there have been more doses administered in the U.S. than any other country in the world, according to figures collected by Johns Hopkins University, although several smaller nations have vaccinated a higher proportion of their populations.

[Alan Klein]

No point to read and quote an eight months old article. Since then not only their car production picked up, but also TSLA shares rallied and split, so the information in that article will just confuse you more. There are plenty of doomsday articles by Tesla bears, and also some overly optimistic by Tesla fans, so read it all and make up your own mind. As a matter of fact, TSLA shares are quite volatile right now. They dropped recently by 35% from their peak. Today, they are about $690 compared with almost $900 from six weeks ago. That's why this may be a good time to get into it. But I am not a financial advisor, just an independent observer, still driving an old Toyota which is plenty fast for Canadian and US highways.

I think the regular car companies are getting into EVs as well and some of them look a lot better than the Tesla.  But I hope he is successful since America can use some good news for a change. I'm working on a water-fired automobile engine and will be making an announcement as soon as I get a few bugs out of the system. 

[Alan Klein]

Let the investigations go forward, regarding who did what and why, and let the chips fall where they may. To be more specific regarding, "changing the death figures in reports" that actually means counting patients who came from a nursing home and then died in a hospital as a hospital death rather than a nursing home death. The total number of deaths was not altered, but where they were counted as occurring in reporting is the center of the dispute.

It is interesting isn't it? That Democrats are holding one other own to account. That's the big chunk of my post on your article link that you completely ignored in order to create a distraction.

Well, NY AG is investigating Trump now for tax fraud.  So he's not out of the woods either, by a long shot.  Of course, that's all political too.  But there may be some criminal acts as well.  Maybe Cuomo and Trump will wind up sharing a cell in New York's Sing Sing prison.