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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1316074 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5940 on: January 19, 2021, 09:49:07 am »

Pardon Watch: I haven't heard of any last minute pardons being filed yet. Isn't today the last day for that?
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5941 on: January 19, 2021, 10:09:43 am »

Pardon Watch: I haven't heard of any last minute pardons being filed yet. Isn't today the last day for that?

Not to worry - you will, I'm sure.

In other news, the Trumpies (remember - the ones against governmental indoctrination)  pushed out their "1776" "history" project, written by not-historians who are definitely attempting to create some state-sponsored indoctrination.  I haven't read it yet, but as someone with an actual degree in the subject, I eagerly anticipate the horrors that no doubt await me.  Early reviews are not promising...





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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5942 on: January 19, 2021, 10:16:23 am »

Not to worry - you will, I'm sure.

In other news, the Trumpies (remember - the ones against governmental indoctrination)  pushed out their "1776" "history" project, written by not-historians who are definitely attempting to create some state-sponsored indoctrination.  I haven't read it yet, but as someone with an actual degree in the subject, I eagerly anticipate the horrors that no doubt await me.  Early reviews are not promising...

Oh.. I just remembered though - we're making progress.  How do I know?  because, in 2017 Donald Trump realized that,

"Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I notice."

 ::)
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5943 on: January 19, 2021, 10:26:18 am »

The free market determined that PPE should be manufactured in China, but a few months ago that didn't seem like such a good idea.

The free market determined that 95% of the world's intravenous bags (I think it was those bags) be manufactured in Puerto Rico until the hurricane took out the factory and hospitals all over the world started to run out.

The free market determined that "just in time" inventory was more efficient, until everyone was scrambling for PPE because there were none left in the cupboards.


And you really think the government would have done better and been prepared?  If so, I have a bridge I need to get off my hands. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5944 on: January 19, 2021, 10:36:11 am »

This ought to draw the ire of a few Trump supporters.

Biden selects transgender doctor Rachel Levine as assistant health secretary

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/19/rachel-levine-transgender-biden-hhs-pick/

As someone living in PA, she is beyond unqualified; she does not even have a medical degree nor can write prescriptions.  The same exact week she forced nursing homes to take in sick patients, telling the state it was the right thing to do, she pulled her mother out of a nursing home due to her feeling unsafe about the decision. 

Pennsylvania Health Secretary Moved Mother Out Of Nursing Home As Coronavirus Death Toll Increased In State

She has no right being in charge of public health and this is nothing but a lets use her to mark the intersectional check list. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 10:39:18 am by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5945 on: January 19, 2021, 10:57:08 am »

As someone living in PA, she is beyond unqualified; she does not even have a medical degree nor can write prescriptions.  The same exact week she forced nursing homes to take in sick patients, telling the state it was the right thing to do, she pulled her mother out of a nursing home due to her feeling unsafe about the decision. 

Pennsylvania Health Secretary Moved Mother Out Of Nursing Home As Coronavirus Death Toll Increased In State

She has no right being in charge of public health and this is nothing but a lets use her to mark the intersectional check list.

If I had had an elderly relative in a nursing home and could have made appropriate arrangements, I would have taken her/him out of a nursing home too.

"Rachel attended Belmont Hill School, Bellmont is an independent school for boys. She later joined Harvard College for her undergraduate studies. In 1983 she graduated from Tulane U, School of Medicine and specializes in pediatric medicine."

"Levine completed her pediatrics training at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York, where she practiced from 1988 to 1993. She later developed an interest in the intersection of medical, mental and behavioral health issues – such as individuals with bulimia and anorexia. This saw her become the chief of the Division of Adolescent Medicine and Eating Disorders and vice chairwoman for Clinical Affairs for the Department of Pediatrics at Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center."

You can read the rest of her credentials here:

https://itsbiography.com/dr-rachel-levine/
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 11:18:38 am by faberryman »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5946 on: January 19, 2021, 11:00:01 am »

If I had an elderly relative in a nursing home and could make appropriate arrangements, I would have taken her/him out of a nursing home too.

"Rachel attended Belmont Hill School, Bellmont is an independent school for boys. She later joined Harvard College for her undergraduate studies. In 1983 she graduated from Tulane U, School of Medicine and specializes in pediatric medicine."

"Levine completed her pediatrics training at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York, where she practiced from 1988 to 1993."

You can read the rest of her credentials here:

https://itsbiography.com/dr-rachel-levine/

Yes, yes - but apart from that :-)
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5947 on: January 19, 2021, 11:10:22 am »

And you really think the government would have done better and been prepared?  If so, I have a bridge I need to get off my hands.

The point I was trying to make is that a market optimized for the profits of individual companies is not necessarily the best thing for a specific country. Although this may in fact be the case for many (if not most) of the daily trinkets we buy. But forget ideological Econ 101 purity, think reality.

As an extreme example, the US could probably save lots of money if it outsourced the building of military hardware to cheaper manufacturing facilities in Russia, China or even Iran, but it would not make any strategic sense to do so. So the US lives with this "local manufacturing inefficiency" because it is superseded by other considerations.

Market failures occur all the time, and the only reasonable mechanism we have to address them is governmental. Obviously, it makes little sense to set a government-run company to make Covid masks, but there are other ways to address the issue. And these are undertaken by all countries all the time and have done so since forever.

Imagine a hypothetical situation in which the US is engaged in some war and decides that it will end ALL exports of gasoline to other countries. For those other countries, it would then seem a little inefficient to NOT have their own refining facilities. I am using this as a simple-minded example that probably has no relation to reality to make the point that simple market efficiency is only one consideration and that the more strategic a resource or product is, the greater the deviation from economics textbooks.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5948 on: January 19, 2021, 11:10:56 am »

Pardon Watch: I haven't heard of any last minute pardons being filed yet. Isn't today the last day for that?

He has probably signed all the paperwork already. He could release a list of pardons tomorrow morning. It would probably get less coverage with the press focused on the inauguration. He doesn't even have to release a list of pardons. He could make the media go to DOJ to get the list, sort of a final screw you, because you know there are going to be a lot of controversial ones. We'll just have to see.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 02:51:21 pm by faberryman »
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MattBurt

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5949 on: January 19, 2021, 11:12:33 am »

Yes, yes - but apart from that :-)

In that case she must be a dijon-loving elitist with all that fancy education. They can always hate her for that instead.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5950 on: January 19, 2021, 11:19:20 am »

Obviously, it makes little sense to set a government-run company to make Covid masks,

Isn't that exactly what the Chnese did? So now we can't complain about the Uighurs or whatever, or our health workers will have to wear supermarket bags on their heads.

The UK had a huge stockplie of PPE, which would have been great except that to save "tax payers" (not really) money our genius leaders decided not to keep it current and loads had expired by the time it was needed.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5951 on: January 19, 2021, 11:31:47 am »

And you really think the government would have done better and been prepared?  If so, I have a bridge I need to get off my hands.

Yes I think that because in fact they were, with the Strategic National Stockpile with some $7 billion (in 2016) of medical supplies stockpiled for national medical emergencies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_National_Stockpile

And then Trump lied (duh) and claimed he inherited an empty stockpile.

And then, between his taking office and the pandemic, his administration refused funding to build the stockpile up in areas, such as N95 masks, that experts warned were in low supply.

It took me all of 15 minutes to find this out.

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5952 on: January 19, 2021, 12:26:09 pm »

Isn't that exactly what the Chnese did?

I don't know enough about the Chinese economy to parse out what is government-run or what is privately run or what mix of the two exists. There are probably examples of all of those.

The underlying assumption that is always made is that anything run by government is bad. This is now accepted as gospel in some circles. I wonder if the assumption has been systematically examined. In general, the things that private companies make or sell and the things that public bodies are responsible for are so different that it has never made much sense to me to compare the two. It's relatively easy to calculate the amount of profit made on every lens, but how do you measure the efficiency of a land use and urban transportation design that spans the next 50 years.

I worked mostly in the private sector in my life and the notion that privately owned companies are efficiently run just makes me laugh out loud. This is usually dismissed because if they are run badly, the damage is limited. This is a pretty granular view, I'd be interested to know how well that really holds up in the aggregate.  When a local government gets out of garbage collection which is then outsourced to a private company or two with 50 year monopolies, is that really more efficient and how do you prove it either way? I've often wondered the same thing about private prison corporations. How much money do they save anyone? Does anyone ever go back and examine the costs/benefits of private sector outsourcing or does it just become the new bureaucracy under a new name? I hate to sound cynical...

Natural gas and electricity used to be delivered by utilities. Then they were "privatized". Am I better off? I have no idea, but I do know someone benefitted, of that I have no doubt.

Anyway, isn't it competition in goods and services that keeps costs low? For consumer products and services, one good way to achieve that is to have private concerns compete with each other. No one disputes this. I don't know why we keep having that ancient discussion, no one is advocating "central planning" or state ownership of corporations.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5953 on: January 19, 2021, 12:35:49 pm »

As someone living in PA, she is beyond unqualified; she does not even have a medical degree nor can write prescriptions.

That's just simply false. She's a pediatric physician with an M.D. degree from Tulane University School of Medicine. She did her residency in pediatrics at Mount Sinai in New York City and then completed a fellowship in Adolescent Medicine there. She then practiced pediatrics and adolescent medicine in New York City and was on the faculty of the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine. She moved to Pennsylvania in 1993 as the director of Ambulatory Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine at the Polyclinic Medical Center. She joined the staff at the Penn State Hershey Medical Center in 1996 as the director of Pediatric Ambulatory Services and Adolescent Medicine. She is a professor of Pediatrics and Psychiatry at the Penn State College of Medicine. Dr. Levine is a Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine, and the Academy for Eating Disorders. She is also the President of ASTHO, the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials. Levine has previously won state Senate confirmation in Pennsylvania, including a unanimous vote in 2015 to endorse her as Pennsylvania's physician general. She then rose to the role of secretary of health, also with the state Senate's approval.

The same exact week she forced nursing homes to take in sick patients, telling the state it was the right thing to do, she pulled her mother out of a nursing home due to her feeling unsafe about the decision.

She has no right being in charge of public health and this is nothing but a lets use her to mark the intersectional check list.

Her mother wasn't in a nursing home. She was living in what in Pennsylvania is known as a "a residential personal care home". There are different names in various states for these types of assisted home care facilities. In Pennsylvania, a personal care home is legally differentiated from a nursing home or assisted living facility. All three are licensed by the state with the key difference being the level of care. Levine was careful to note that her mother was in a personal care home, not a nursing home, and that the facility in question fell under the jurisdiction of the state Department of Human Services, not her own agency. She didn't "pull her mother out". “My mother requested and my sister and I as her children complied to move her to another location, during the COVID-19 outbreak. My mother is 95 years old. She is very intelligent and more than competent to make her own decisions.”

« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 12:39:00 pm by TechTalk »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5954 on: January 19, 2021, 12:52:48 pm »

Anyway, isn't it competition in goods and services that keeps costs low? For consumer products and services, one good way to achieve that is to have private concerns compete with each other. No one disputes this. I don't know why we keep having that ancient discussion, no one is advocating "central planning" or state ownership of corporations.

The reason we keep having this discussion is that the so called free market advocates engage in the logical fallacy of black and white thinking which involves setting up only two choices at the opposite extremes, and so argue that you have a choice between a free market economy and a centrally planned economy. Rational thinkers notice that that is a false dichotomy, and that there is a lot of grey area between those two extremes. So in reality it is actually possible to have a government regulation requiring seats in cars without being a communist state. Who knew?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 03:19:10 pm by faberryman »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5955 on: January 19, 2021, 12:57:47 pm »

The reason we keep having this discussion is that the so called free market advocates engage in the logical fallacy of black and white thinking which involves setting up only two choices at the opposite extremes, and so argue that you have a choice between a free market economy and a centrally planned economy. Rational thinkers notice that that is a false dichotomy, and that there is a lot of grey area between those two extremes.

Worse than that - they sthen et up the USA as being an example of a free market economy. It might be more honest to use Somalia, or some place with truly no government intervention in the economy.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5956 on: January 19, 2021, 01:17:04 pm »

Worse than that - they sthen et up the USA as being an example of a free market economy. It might be more honest to use Somalia, or some place with truly no government intervention in the economy.

The other thing you can do is to ask the proponent of a free market economy to read Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle and then get back to you.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5957 on: January 19, 2021, 01:28:23 pm »

When someone makes the comedy movie in 5 years time, wouldn't it be an hilarious scene if the Prez on his last day wants to issue 100 pardons but all the White House staff have resigned and left and there's no one left to process the paper work, or the bicycle courier guy loses the paper work because the Prez stiffed him his courier fee. Movie ends with the Prez stomping his feet throwing the mother of all tantrums. I'm sorry, I'm bored here in winter lockdown, dying to go out for a cappuccino but I can't.
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John Camp

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5958 on: January 19, 2021, 01:32:37 pm »

The reason we keep having this discussion is that the so called free market advocates engage in the logical fallacy of black and white thinking which involves setting up only two choices at the opposite extremes, and so argue that you have a choice between a free market economy and a centrally planned economy. Rational thinkers notice that that is a false dichotomy, and that there is a lot of grey area between those two extremes. So in reality it is actually possible to have a government regulation requiring seats in cars without being a communist state.

Honestly, I think most people here, including Alan, when speaking of a "free market economy" actually mean  a "mostly free market economy" as opposed to a heavily regulated economy. Most rational people realize that a totally free market economy results in a race to the bottom and an economy that would resemble the American South during slavery, with a thin crust of winners and a huge bulk of losers.

But, the people who object to regulation, although they overstate the case in many instances, also have a point. I personally have the simplest of businesses, writing novels which I make up. I don't do extensive travel for research, no assistants, no big deductibles, and yet, I'm plagued by taxes -- not the amount, which I'm reasonably content to pay, but the paperwork. Even with an accountant, I have to spend hours every spring of prep to run a business in which I write a book, and send it in. I have to spend time four times a year working with the accountant to figure out and send in estimated tax payments, because of the way the US government requires the taxes to be paid. My brother once ran a bookstore, and the regulations drove him crazy. When he was approaching the Grand Opening, which was going to be a big pain in the ass no matter what happened, he was told at the last minute by a fire marshal that he couldn't open the store because it lacked signs on the doors which said, "This door must remain unlocked during business hours." Further, such inspections could only be conducted by appointment, and none were available until after the Grand Opening was scheduled -- he couldn't just run out and buy the required signs and put them up. After some more major hassle, he managed to hold the Grand Opening as scheduled, but this is the kind of thing that small businesses run into all the time. I don't know if this is true, but I've been told that in the US, if you employ ten people, you will probably have to designate one person to take care of responses to government regulation. Have you ever been in an elevator and seen a sign that said, "This elevator can't carry more than (some number) of people," and thought, "No way that many people could squeeze in here?" That's the kind of ubiquitous, nonsensical regulation that drives you crazy (not the limit on the number, but the regulation that says you must have the sign and can be penalized for not having it.) Just a few thoughts for people who haven't run businesses. 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5959 on: January 19, 2021, 01:39:39 pm »

When someone makes the comedy movie in 5 years time, wouldn't it be an hilarious scene if the Prez on his last day wants to issue 100 pardons but all the White House staff have resigned and left and there's no one left to process the paper work, or the bicycle courier guy loses the paper work because the Prez stiffed him his courier fee. Movie ends with the Prez stomping his feet throwing the mother of all tantrums. I'm sorry, I'm bored here in winter lockdown, dying to go out for a cappuccino but I can't.

Amazon sells quite decent Nescafe Instant Cappucino, we used to take in the summer to the lake and prepare it there with just hot water.

https://www.amazon.ca/NESCAFÉ-Gold-Cappuccino-Coffee-Grams/dp/B083L2H8ZY/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAo5qABhBdEiwAOtGmbuZAvnlWMiDBFEqmBPhRJ0IMudqr1LxnvcWmwCXb6XjrLWEM-CongRoCRhMQAvD_BwE&hvadid=230026996736&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000794&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9618740130962705788&hvtargid=kwd-299672033979&hydadcr=24692_10309283&keywords=instant+cappuccino&qid=1611081284&sr=8-5&tag=googcana-20
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