Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[digitaldog]

Your response sounds like hand waving to me. So basically the answer is no, there is no requirement, or none that you know about anyway or you would have said so.

As you can see, if you ask fool a question you get a foolish answer.

[Robert Roaldi]

I'm not a lawyer.  I gave you an answer that best fits my knowledge as a layman.  So for you to assume there is no requirement based of my answer, is jumping to conclusions.  Look it up on google.  Maybe you can get a definitive answer while I'm getting a haircut.

Wy would I look it up? I couldn't care less. You're the one who spent yesterday asking the question why there was no disclosure, not me. So basically, you're now admitting that you have no good reason to expect a disclosure except that you felt like you should.

Let me ask you something else. Given how often people have demonstrated how wrong you have been about so many things, do you ever wonder if maybe your support of Trump has also been a mistake?

And while we're asking questions, how do YOU feel about Biden's statement about Putin? Your statements about Putin and Russia have been pretty confusing over time, and in the last iteration you somehow concluded that Russia was the USA's friend, which was a pretty odd position to take, imo.

[digitaldog]

Political humor alert:

Now it's clear why the Trump administration was so poor when it came to environmental protections. Like the Woody Allen characters motives in “Casino Royale”:

Plummeting sperm counts, shrinking penises: toxic chemicals threaten humanity
“ Swan’s research finds that these chemicals aren’t just dramatically reducing semen quality, they are also shrinking penis size and volume of the testes.“
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/18/toxic-chemicals-health-humanity-erin-brokovich?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1

[Alan Klein]

Wy would I look it up? I couldn't care less. You're the one who spent yesterday asking the question why there was no disclosure, not me. So basically, you're now admitting that you have no good reason to expect a disclosure except that you felt like you should.

Let me ask you something else. Given how often people have demonstrated how wrong you have been about so many things, do you ever wonder if maybe your support of Trump has also been a mistake?

And while we're asking questions, how do YOU feel about Biden's statement about Putin? Your statements about Putin and Russia have been pretty confusing over time, and in the last iteration you somehow concluded that Russia was the USA's friend, which was a pretty odd position to take, imo.

Disclosure has nothing to do with what government is required to do or not in the law. .  It's what I feel as an American citizen disclosure should be.  Which by the way is exactly what was disclosed in other cases when civilians were killed by cops. Apparently, you're the one who doesn't feel justice should be applied equally.  Is that how they do it in Canada?

What does Trump have to do with it?  This has nothing to do with him. By the way, it's funny how you're more often wrong than right. 

I never said Russia is our friend.  I said we could use them to help offset the power of China.  Biden would be smart if he finds some common ground where we can have better relations with them.  It's China who's the adversary, not Russia.

[Robert Roaldi]

... Apparently, you're the one who doesn't feel justice should be applied equally....

Is that what I said? Be honest now, is that really what you think I said?

... What does Trump have to do with it?  This has nothing to do with him. ...

Trump has nothing to do with it. It was a separate question. Why are you trying to mash the two thoughts together?

[faberryman]

Rand Paul, an ophthalmologist, is at it again with doctors up on Capitol Hill, this time Dr. Fauci, an epidemiologist, about masks.

“Isn’t it just theater?” the Kentucky junior senator, a physician, asked during a Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee hearing."

“You’ve been vaccinated and you parade around in two masks for show. You can’t get it again,” Paul said. “There’s virtually 0% chance you’re going to get it and you’re telling people that have had the vaccine who have immunity — you’re defying everything we know about immunity by telling people to wear masks who have been vaccinated.”

In response, Fauci said, “Here we go again with the theater.”

″Can I just state for the record that masks are not theater,” Fauci said. “I totally disagree with you.”

"I totally disagree with you,’ Fauci tells GOP senator in fiery exchange over masks

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/18/covid-i-totally-disagree-with-you-fauci-tells-gop-senator-in-fiery-exchange-over-masks.html

Seems like everyone has an opinion about masks.

[Peter McLennan]

Given how often people have demonstrated how wrong you have been about so many things, do you ever wonder if maybe your support of Trump has also been a mistake?

HA!  ROFLMAO, etc.  When ever has anyone on the right ever admitted they were wrong about anything?

[digitaldog]

Seems like everyone has an opinion about masks.

Indeed; one being an Ophthalmologist who faced two malpractice lawsuits between 1993 and 2010.
The other is an immunologist who got his MD when Paul was three years old, served American public healt for more than 50 years, and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan. His Awards and honors include:
Recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the White House on June 19, 2008
1979: Arthur S. Flemming Award
1993: Honorary Doctor of Science, Bates College
1995: Ernst Jung Prize (shared with Samuel A. Wells, Jr.)
1995: Honorary Doctor of Science, Duke University
1996: Honorary Doctor of Science, Colgate University
1999: Honorary Doctor of Public Service Degree, Shippensburg University of Pennsylvania
2002: Albany Medical Center Prize
2003: American Academy of Achievement's Golden Plate Award
2005: National Medal of Science
2005: American Association of Immunologists Lifetime Achievement Award
2007: Mary Woodard Lasker Public Service Award
2007: George M. Kober Medal, Association of American Physicians
2008: Presidential Medal of Freedom
2013: UCSF medal
2013: Robert Koch Gold Medal
2013: Prince Mahidol Award
2015: Honorary Degree, Johns Hopkins University
2016: John Dirks Canada Gairdner Global Health Award
2018: Honorary Doctor of Science, commencement speaker, American University
2018: Honorary Doctor of Science, Boston University
2020: Federal Employee of the Year
2020: Presidential Citation for Exemplary Leadership, National Academy of Medicine
2020: Ripple of Hope Award from the Robert F. Kennedy Center for Justice and Human Rights
2020: TIME Magazine's Guardian of the Year, along with the frontline health workers, Assa Traoré, Porche Bennett-Bey, and racial justice organizers.
2020: Harris Dean's Award
2021: Public Welfare Medal of the National Academy of Sciences
2021: Dan David Prize

One guys 'opinion' on masks is about as serious and knowledgeable as Tucker Carlson's opinions on the subject.
The other guy, he kind of knows what he's talking about. 

[digitaldog]

Some GOP's idea of “Justice”?

GOP Rep. Extols Lynchings During Hearing on Anti-Asian American Violence
“There’s an old saying in Texas about find all the rope in Texas and get a tall oak tree. You know, we take justice very seriously. And we ought to do that. Round up the bad guys.”

MTG has competition sadly.

[Chris Kern]

Seems like everyone has an opinion about masks.

Indeed; one being an Ophthalmologist who faced two malpractice lawsuits between 1993 and 2010.
The other is an immunologist who got his MD when Paul was three years old, served American public healt for more than 50 years, and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan. . . .

One guys 'opinion' on masks is about as serious and knowledgeable as Tucker Carlson's opinions on the subject.
The other guy, he kind of knows what he's talking about.

I think it's even worse than that.  You don't need medical training to understand why Dr. Fauci believes it is necessary for people who have been vaccinated to continue to wear facemasks, continue social distancing, etc.  But precisely because Rand Paul is a doctor, it's all but inconceivable that he doesn't understand the evidence for Fauci's recommendation.

Paul is indulging his political ideology in a congressional forum to propagate factual claims he undoubtedly knows are both inaccurate and inimical to public health.

It's one thing for him to make a pitch for his libertarian political philosophy, and claim it is not a proper function of government to use coercive measures (e.g., mandates to wear facemasks) to protect public health.  It's a rather lame argument, from my perspective, but there are people who believe that and they have a right to have their say.

But he crossed a line when he insinuated that it's just "theater" to continue to wear a facemask after you have been vaccinated because there is no rational basis for believing that.  And public figures, in particular, not to mention highly-educated public figures, should not be propagating their ideological opinions as though they are facts.

[BobShaw]

HA!  ROFLMAO, etc.  When ever has anyone on the right ever admitted they were wrong about anything?

460 pages later nothing seems to have changed. (A lot of server space without much on photography lately.)

Most countries have less deaths in total over the year than the US will have today.
Still over 1300 people a day dying despite over 100 Million vaccinations.
Is there any possibility of both sides agreeing on anything, in particular that whatever they are doing is wrong?

[Alan Klein]

I think it's even worse than that.  You don't need medical training to understand why Dr. Fauci believes it is necessary for people who have been vaccinated to continue to wear facemasks, continue social distancing, etc.  But precisely because Rand Paul is a doctor, it's all but inconceivable that he doesn't understand the evidence for Fauci's recommendation.

Paul is indulging his political ideology in a congressional forum to propagate factual claims he undoubtedly knows are both inaccurate and inimical to public health.

It's one thing for him to make a pitch for his libertarian political philosophy, and claim it is not a proper function of government to use coercive measures (e.g., mandates to wear facemasks) to protect public health.  It's a rather lame argument, from my perspective, but there are people who believe that and they have a right to have their say.

But he crossed a line when he insinuated that it's just "theater" to continue to wear a facemask after you have been vaccinated because there is no rational basis for believing that.  And public figures, in particular, not to mention highly-educated public figures, should not be propagating their ideological opinions as though they are facts.

Dr. Fauci agreed with Senator Paul that there is no requirement for a mask for vaccinated people regarding the regular Covid. Studies show vacinated people are protected. Hence Paul's comment about "theatre"  Fauci's fallback position was that there are new variants that we have to protect against.  Paul claimed there are no studies that show people vacinated have gotten the variant.  That's where they left it.   It seems that the mask is still a political football.

One other thing Paul recommended that seemed reasonable. He said that if Fauci said people can eliminate their masks after they get vacinated, they may get everyone to rush to get the shots rather than giving excuses for not getting them.  That would help the overall process of eliminating the virus.

[LesPalenik]

Dr. Fauci agreed with Senator Paul that there is no requirement for a mask for vaccinated people regarding the regular Covid. Studies show vacinated people are protected. Hence Paul's comment about "theatre"  Fauci's fallback position was that there are new variants that we have to protect against.  Paul claimed there are no studies that show people vacinated have gotten the variant.  That's where they left it.   It seems that the mask is still a political football.

Not quite.
1. Due to multiple factors, some vaccinations won't work, and those people will be still susceptible to infections and will spread others.
2. Even if the vaccination is successful, some of the vaccinated people can still pick up the virus and although they are protected, they can still infect others.

In several European countries the infections are again on rise, despite a meaningful portion of the population already having received the shots.

[Alan Klein]

Not quite.
1. Due to multiple factors, some vaccinations won't work, and those people will be still susceptible to infections and will spread others.
2. Even if the vaccination is successful, some of the vaccinated people can still pick up the virus and although they are protected, they can still infect others.

In several European countries the infections are again on rise, despite a meaningful portion of the population already having received the shots.

Fauci never claimed the things you stated.  He only stated that vacinated people cannot get infected with the existing virus and expressed that the mask would protect against variants only.

[LesPalenik]

Fauci never claimed the things you stated.  He only stated that vacinated people cannot get infected with the existing virus and expressed that the mask would protect against variants only.

Doesn't really matter what Fauci or Paul said this week and I never stated what they claimed.
The important thing to know is the possibility of virus transmission by vaccinated people as I mentioned in my previous post. Here is the latest CDC stand on this subject.

Do I need to wear a mask and avoid close contact with others if I have gotten 2 doses of the vaccine?

It depends. For now, fully vaccinated people can gather indoors without physical distancing or wearing masks with other people who are fully vaccinated or unvaccinated people from one other household, unless any of those people or anyone they live with has an increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

Until more is known, fully vaccinated people should continue to wear masks and stay 6 feet apart from other people in other settings, like when they are in public or visiting with unvaccinated people from multiple households.

CDC is saying that "We are still very far from herd immunity". They are also looking at the viability of administering a third vaccine dose,

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/still-very-far-herd-immunity-205256602.html 

[jeremyrh]

Dr. Fauci agreed with Senator Paul that there is no requirement for a mask for vaccinated people regarding the regular Covid. Studies show vacinated people are protected. Hence Paul's comment about "theatre"  Fauci's fallback position was that there are new variants that we have to protect against.  Paul claimed there are no studies that show people vacinated have gotten the variant.  That's where they left it.   It seems that the mask is still a political football.

One other thing Paul recommended that seemed reasonable. He said that if Fauci said people can eliminate their masks after they get vacinated, they may get everyone to rush to get the shots rather than giving excuses for not getting them.  That would help the overall process of eliminating the virus.

I guess this is the exchange you're talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YpxXGrBUzY

Paul still missing the point that it's not about "me me me me me", it's about wearing a mask to prevent you passing on the virus, and that a vaccinated person can still be an asymptomatic carrier of the virus.  If Americans can't figure out that vaccinations are for saving lives, and get their shots without needing some fake inducement, then you're in for a problem, and your economy will be shut for a long time.

[Alan Klein]

Doesn't really matter what Fauci or Paul said this week and I never stated what they claimed.
The important thing to know is the possibility of virus transmission by vaccinated people as I mentioned in my previous post. Here is the latest CDC stand on this subject.

CDC is saying that "We are still very far from herd immunity". They are also looking at the viability of administering a third vaccine dose,

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/still-very-far-herd-immunity-205256602.html 

I guess this is the exchange you're talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YpxXGrBUzY

Paul still missing the point that it's not about "me me me me me", it's about wearing a mask to prevent you passing on the virus, and that a vaccinated person can still be an asymptomatic carrier of the virus.  If Americans can't figure out that vaccinations are for saving lives, and get their shots without needing some fake inducement, then you're in for a problem, and your economy will be shut for a long time.

The Senator didn't argue that no one should wear a mask.  His point was that the mask does not protect people who have had been vaccinated because they can't get because they have been vaccinated.  That was the whole point of the vaccine for the individual. There is no evidence that people who have been vaccinated can get it or pass it on. His point that the rule requiring wearing masks for vaccinated people is not required. 

Me?  I still wear the mask when I'm around others as does my wife.  I don't believe the senator or Fauci so I play it safe.

[jeremyrh]

The Senator didn't argue that no one should wear a mask.  His point was that the mask does not protect people who have had been vaccinated because they can't get because they have been vaccinated.  That was the whole point of the vaccine for the individual. There is no evidence that people who have been vaccinated can get it or pass it on. His point that the rule requiring wearing masks for vaccinated people is not required. 

Me?  I still wear the mask when I'm around others as does my wife.  I don't believe the senator or Fauci so I play it safe.

One more time - it's not about the wearer, it's about passing on the virus. Paul said that Fauci was indulging in "theatre".  That is simply not true.  Then we get to the issue of variants and the game changes again.

I don't understand how, a year after the pandemic began, you still haven't understood the basics.

[Alan Klein]

So I got my first haircut in one year.  Feel a lot lighter.  He raised his price 20% since the last time.  Who says there's no inflation?  His barbershop had three barbers including himself.  He used to have at least four plus a cashier.  No cashier now.  He says he is doing OK and has been open since last June! This is what restaurants will have to do.  Since they can only have a portion of their space for patrons, they'll have to lay off people and raise prices.

Meanwhile, in America, our weekly first-time unemployment went up again when everyone expected it to go down, from around 725,000 to 770,000. Three-quarters of a million new unemployed when they expected it to go down.  Normal before the pandemic was around just over 200,000 per week, less than a third.  What's going on in Canada, Europe, and elsewhere?  Is employment as bad as here?

[Alan Klein]

One more time - it's not about the wearer, it's about passing on the virus. Paul said that Fauci was indulging in "theatre".  That is simply not true.  Then we get to the issue of variants and the game changes again.

I don't understand how, a year after the pandemic began, you still haven't understood the basics.

You can't pass on what you can't get.  Fauci didn't claim anything about vaccinated people passing it on.   Fauci's argument that I listened to during the senate hearing was his concern was to protect against other variants.  Fauci did not object to Paul's contention that there is no evidence that people who have been vaccinated can get it or pass it on.  In fact, there's no evidence that people who have been vaccinated can get any of the variants. 

Frankly, this may be the CDC trying to get everyone to wear the mask fearing if they say some people can take it off would only encourage others who have not been vaccinated to not wear them.  Just the opposite of what they did, in the beginning, telling us masks are only required for medical people because the supply of them was low.  Also, Fauci is a politician and Biden likes the mask for political reasons.  So he's kissing Biden's ass as he kissed Trump's.  The Senator raised the point that telling vaccinated people they don;t need the mask any longer would encourage more people to get vaccinated.