Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Really? Trump is telling people to stage a Revolution or another Civil War?  I read a lot of news, I can't believe I missed that one.

Well, I've been dusting off my muskets.

[James Clark]

What Trump is doing IS democracy.

It's not. Recounts are democracy.  Legal challenges to resolve disputes are democracy.  Trying to retroactively change the rules of an election, thereby disenfranchising voters that disagree with you?  That's not democracy.  Trying to get groups of people to break the law and deliberately throw out the results an election?  That's not democracy either.

[James Clark]

Really? Trump is telling people to stage a Revolution or another Civil War?  I read a lot of news, I can't believe I missed that one.

That's not what I said.  I said Trump is *literally* trying to get state legislatures to override the will of the people.  And he is. Are you going to argue that until the overturn happens at the end of a gun barrel instead of by the stroke of a pen that it's not contravening the will of the people?

[Craig Lamson]

It's not. Recounts are democracy.  Legal challenges to resolve disputes are democracy.  Trying to retroactively change the rules of an election, thereby disenfranchising voters that disagree with you?  That's not democracy.  Trying to get groups of people to break the law and deliberately throw out the results an election?  That's not democracy either.

Sorry you are wrong.

[Craig Lamson]

That's not what I said.  I said Trump is *literally* trying to get state legislatures to override the will of the people.  And he is. Are you going to argue that until the overturn happens at the end of a gun barrel instead of by the stroke of a pen that it's not contravening the will of the people?

If a State legislatures decide to do whatever, they are acting on behalf of the people of their State. The people elected them.   Trump can ask all he wants but he does not get to decide.  Its on each the State.  If they choose to act, "illegal" has yet to be proven.

[digitaldog]

Barr grows a pair:
Attorney General William Barr said in an interview Tuesday that the Justice Department has uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that would tip the results of the presidential election, a comment directly undercutting allegations being made by President Donald Trump and his legal team.
Maybe he didn't see Alan's report of those ”3000 fraudulent votes”? 😝

[James Clark]

Barr grows a pair:
Attorney General William Barr said in an interview Tuesday that the Justice Department has uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that would tip the results of the presidential election, a comment directly undercutting allegations being made by President Donald Trump and his legal team.
Maybe he didn't see Alan's report of those ”3000 fraudulent votes”? 😝

Trying to salvage what tiny bit of respect he has left I suppose.  (Any maybe hoping not to get disbarred in about 2 months).  I wonder though, if he gets fired before Jan 20th?

[James Clark]

Sorry you are wrong.

No, this is pretty much indisputably correct:

Trying to retroactively change the rules of an election, thereby disenfranchising voters that disagree with you?  That's not democracy.  Trying to get groups of people to break the law and deliberately throw out the results an election?  That's not democracy either.

I mean, you can claim it's wrong (sort of like "FRAUD FRAUD!!!!  I WON THE ELECTION") but as a judge recently opined, claiming doesn't make it true.

[digitaldog]

Trying to salvage what tiny bit of respect he has left I suppose.  (Any maybe hoping not to get disbarred in about 2 months).  I wonder though, if he gets fired before Jan 20th?

He is reportedly at the White House right now. Oh to be a fly on the wall.

[Craig Lamson]

No, this is pretty much indisputably correct:

Please show me the SCOTUS Ruling on this very specific chain of events. 

As I have stated a number  of times, I don't think Trump will be suscessful in his law suits nor do I think any State Legislature will try and change the slate of Electors.

That does not mean he should quit trying, if he chooses.

[Alan Klein]

It's not. Recounts are democracy.  Legal challenges to resolve disputes are democracy.  Trying to retroactively change the rules of an election, thereby disenfranchising voters that disagree with you?  That's not democracy. Trying to get groups of people to break the law and deliberately throw out the results an election?  That's not democracy either.

Hiring lawyers to argue your case is all legal and regularly done.  What groups of people are breaking the law and throwing out the results of the election? If people feel their candidate didn't get a fair shot in an election, they have a right to protest just like BLM people have a right to protest.  Rioting isn't allowed.  But protest is.  It's called freedom and free speech is protected in our constitution.  Americans are used to protest and handle it well in most cases.  Everyone's got a gripe in America.  We're always complaining.  We're used to it.

[James Clark]

If a State legislatures decide to do whatever, they are acting on behalf of the people of their State. The people elected them.   Trump can ask all he wants but he does not get to decide.  Its on each the State.  If they choose to act, "illegal" has yet to be proven.

The concept of "one person, one vote" doesn't really resonate with you, huh?  Listen, I'm all about the minority having the means to avert the tyranny of the majority, but I've yet to hear a convincing case of why tyranny of the minority is any better. 

[Alan Klein]

No, this is pretty much indisputably correct:

I mean, you can claim it's wrong (sort of like "FRAUD FRAUD!!!!  I WON THE ELECTION") but as a judge recently opined, claiming doesn't make it true.

That's right.  You complain to the court and the court decides.  That's democracy and freedom at work.  Where's the problem?

[Craig Lamson]

The concept of "one person, one vote" doesn't really resonate with you, huh?  Listen, I'm all about the minority having the means to avert the tyranny of the majority, but I've yet to hear a convincing case of why tyranny of the minority is any better.

State legislatures make the rules.  If you don't like what the rules say, change them.  Oh wait, thats what a bunch of Judges did prior to the election.  My bad.

"IF" (and I'm well aware that none has been proven yet) there is fraud that is yet uncovered, one person one vote is already out the window.  A LOT of really hinky shit happened in this election.  Is it fraud?  I guess it depends on how you - and the law - define fraud. 

[Alan Klein]

The concept of "one person, one vote" doesn't really resonate with you, huh?  Listen, I'm all about the minority having the means to avert the tyranny of the majority, but I've yet to hear a convincing case of why tyranny of the minority is any better. 

Minority viewpoints and groups don't have the vote.  That's why they need protection by a constitution.  It's always the majority to fear unless the minority has guns. But then, they have to face the majority as well who have guns, at least in America.  In other countries where guns have been confiscated like Cuba and Venezuela, the minority gets guns, and the majority loses.  That's why our 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is so important.  Sorry to go off on a tangent. 

[digitaldog]

The concept of "one person, one vote" doesn't really resonate with you, huh? 

Not just him sadly:
Trump allies to Michigan judge: Force Gov. Whitmer to overturn Biden's win, give state to president
Allies of President Donald Trump want a federal court in Michigan to force state leaders to set aside election results and award its 16 electoral votes to the president. 
A separate conservative group also wants the Michigan Supreme Court to invalidate the results that show President-elect Joe Biden won the state. 

[LesPalenik]

Back to Covid. Chinese sociologist Dr. Li Yi said in an October 16, 2020 speech delivered at the Shenzhenwan Dialogue Forum in Shenzhen, China that China would overtake the United States in GDP by 2027, and that COVID-19 has been harmful to the U.S. and Europe but beneficial to China and North Korea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8zjMxzBZ4&feature=youtu.be

[pegelli]

Really? Trump is telling people to stage a Revolution or another Civil War?  I read a lot of news, I can't believe I missed that one.

His son tweeted this

The best thing for America’s future is for @realDonaldTrump
 to go to total war over this election to expose all of the fraud, cheating, dead/no longer in state voters, that has been going on for far too long.
It’s time to clean up this mess & stop looking like a banana republic!

I don't think legal proceedings are usually referred to as "Total War" but it must be his youthful enthausiasm if he really didn't mean to imply some kind of violence to get his way.

And this call for violence by one of his lawyers doesnt look too good either:

Joe diGenova, the attorney for Trump's campaign, said during an appearance on "The Howie Carr Show": "Anybody who thinks the election went well, like that idiot Krebs who used to be the head of cybersecurity. That guy is a class A moron. He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot."

And now Barr is joining Krebs: US Justice department has found no evidence of widespread voter fraud

I wonder when he is shown the same door as Krebs and starts getting death threats by Trump Lawyers, telling the truth should be lethal according to some alt-right morons, especially when they remember the presidential advice of "stand back but stand by"'. I hope with all my heart that they are not going to mobilise the troops that were addressed with that statement.

[Craig Lamson]

His son tweeted this
I don't think legal proceedings are usually referred to as "Total War" but it must be his youthful enthausiasm if he really didn't mean to imply some kind of violence to get his way.

I've heard it discussed in that manner, meaning don't quit and not stop until the very end.

And this call for violence by one of his lawyers doesnt look too good either:
And now Barr is joining Krebs: US Justice department has found no evidence of widespread voter fraud
[/quote]

You are right it was very stupid thing for that attorney to say.

I wonder when he is shown the same door as Krebs and starts getting death threats by Trump Lawyers, telling the truth should be lethal according to some alt-right morons, especially when they remember the presidential advice of "stand back but stand by"'. I hope with all my heart that they are not going to mobilise the troops that were addressed with that statement.

Barr just got his mojo back with Trump....

Barr names Durham Special Counsel in Russia probe.

https://dbdailyupdate.com/2020/12/01/boom-barr-converts-durham-to-special-counsel-in-russia-probe/

[digitaldog]

Giuliani is under federal investigation for campaign finance violations, money laundering, and obstruction of justice.

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/11/25/rudy-giuliani-money-laundering.html

I expect a very long list of people receiving pardons between now and January 20th.

Ah, that explains:
Giuliani Is Said to Have Discussed a Pardon With Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-pardon.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage