Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 262840 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2140 on: October 09, 2020, 10:39:09 pm »

I’ll answer.  The people.
Thanks for the simple but correct answer.  I was actually having trouble with that.

kers

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2141 on: October 10, 2020, 07:27:10 am »

Trump is just following what he did to make his Muslim ban successful...

Aah a Muslim ban!  so it was indeed to keep all muslims out of the US... 
Then we have a China virus....
and the extreme left socialist Biden...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 10:37:14 am by kers »
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PeterAit

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2142 on: October 10, 2020, 10:02:48 am »

Cheap shot.  Trump never disobeyed a court order.

This is false. Trump's immigration officials have defied multiple court orders related to Trump's travel ban.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2143 on: October 10, 2020, 10:54:08 am »

This is false. Trump's immigration officials have defied multiple court orders related to Trump's travel ban.
I'll take your word for it.  But if I looked, I think I'll find the same for all presidents.  Many of these are administrative but not substantive.  Or the rulings aren't clear as to the breadth of the decision so they're tested again with different facts, just like Roe vs Wade gets tested all the time while the basic ruling stays intact.  It doesn't mean they're dictators or somehow American law is breaking down.

Here's an interesting article about the win rate in the Supreme Court for various administrations,  It seems Obama did the worse for modern presidents, a record of 79–96, a win rate of just above 45 percent.  The whole DACA issue was caused because he made a presidential edict, like Caesar, not using congressional approval.  That leaves the whole issue open for another president to modify it or get rid of it entirely by a Caesar like edict as well.  Of course the Supremes feel he has to follow some arbitrary administrative process.  But so be it.
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obama-has-lost-supreme-court-more-any-modern-president


faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2144 on: October 10, 2020, 10:57:18 am »

This is false. Trump's immigration officials have defied multiple court orders related to Trump's travel ban.

What's all this about disobeying court orders? What about regular laws, rules, and regulations?  Why draw the misconduct so narrowly? It's like saying he has never robbed a house on the weekend. Well, at least everyone is calling it a Muslim ban now. Trumpers were in denial about that for a couple of years. It really wasn't so much about denial. It was more like they were just lying about it. What a bunch of three year olds. Did you put the cat in the microwave? Who me?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 05:43:25 pm by faberryman »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2145 on: October 10, 2020, 11:18:51 am »

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/09/us/donald-trump-taxes-las-vegas.html?searchResultPosition=1

Fascinating NYT story of Trump, campaign contributions, mysterious payments, high speed rail and Las Vegas hoteliers.
(paywall)
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2146 on: October 10, 2020, 11:23:37 am »

North Korea has a brand new ICBM that can handle MIRV nuclear warheads. So much winning.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/north-korea-military-parade-new-missiles-intl-hnk/index.html

And from looking at the photo, it seems they have cornered the market for red hats. Trump's panicked.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2147 on: October 10, 2020, 11:29:12 am »

What's all this about disobeying court orders? What about regular laws, rules, and regulations?  Why draw the misconduct so narrowly? It's like saying he never robs houses on the weekends. Well, at least everyone is calling it a Muslim ban now. Trumpers were in denial about that for a couple of years. It really wasn't so much about denial. It was more like they were just lying about it. A bunch of three year olds. Did you put the cat in the microwave? Who me?
Did you read my last post.  Obama lost 55% of his cases in court - 96 loses, things the government he was running should not have done.  Should we have locked him up?  :)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2148 on: October 10, 2020, 11:31:44 am »

Did you read my last post.  Obama lost 55% of his cases in court - 96 loses, things the government he was running should not have done.  Should we have locked him up?  :)

I'm confused. I thought it was Hilary they wanted to lock up, not Obama.  :)
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2149 on: October 10, 2020, 12:18:26 pm »

You're not confused. But you are starting to fall behind a little.

Now Trump wants to lock up a long list of Democrats and national security officials and ballots that aren't going in his favor. You know, democracy Putin style. Cue the militias.
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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2150 on: October 10, 2020, 01:06:19 pm »

Of course the Supremes feel he has to follow some arbitrary administrative process.

Nothing arbitrary about it.  It's a law.  The Administrative Procedure Act establishes procedural requirements for the promulgation of regulations by the executive branch of the federal government (i.e., the agencies reporting to the president) pursuant to authorities granted to them by substantive laws enacted by Congress.  The requirements of this law exist to deter executive actions that are arbitrary or capricious.  The Trump Administration has repeatedly had executive actions overturned by the federal courts because they were issued without providing a credible rationale or affording the public sufficient opportunity to consider and comment on them, as required by the APA.

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2151 on: October 10, 2020, 01:19:23 pm »

You're not confused. But you are starting to fall behind a little.

Now Trump wants to lock up a long list of Democrats and national security officials and ballots that aren't going in his favor. You know, democracy Putin style. Cue the militias.

AG Bill "Beer Belly" Barr said yesterday that John Dunham, the special prosecutor investigating the Russia investigation investigators, will not have his damaging report ready by the election, so there goes the "October surprise" Trump was counting on. Gotta find something else quick. Trump is really flailing around. Pompeo has announced he is going to release some more of Hillary's e-mails. Not sure that will do it. There are only about three people left who are still interested in Hillary's emails, and they are just hoping to get her chocolate cake recipe.

Maybe Barr will serve Biden with a subpoena at the debate on October 22nd. It was all lined up for October 15th, but the commission changed the debate to virtual, which pretty much blew that idea, so Trump bailed. He is either going to do some oxygen therapy or a rally instead. Don't forget to watch Mussolini Trump address his militias from the balcony of the White House tonight. They have been standing by for over a week and their feet are starting to hurt. Word is he will announce his new plan for seniors. Everyone on Medicare will receive a 10% discount coupon to use at the Trump Tower gift shop. Seniors at The Villages in Florida are already finalizing plans for a golf cart motorcade up to the Big Apple. No one has seen anything like it before.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 08:05:14 pm by faberryman »
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jeremyrh

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2152 on: October 10, 2020, 02:16:31 pm »

AG Bill "Beer Belly" Barr said yesterday that John Dunham, the special prosecutor investigating the Russia investigation investigators, will not have his damaging report ready by  Seniors at The Villages in Florida are already finalizing plans for a golf cart motorcade to the Big Apple. No one has seen anything like it before.

Seniors are lining up for the helicopter trip to hospital that Trump promised them. They'll be swapping stories at the bridge club for weeks.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2153 on: October 10, 2020, 02:40:34 pm »

Seniors are lining up for the helicopter trip to hospital that Trump promised them. They'll be swapping stories at the bridge club for weeks.

When I was young, my uncle, who lived in NYC and worked in shipping, arranged with the Port Authority for me to take a helicopter tour of NYC. It was just me and the pilot in one of those two seater jobs with the bubble windshield. We flew around the Empire State Building, then out and around The Statue of Liberty, and all around. I was never so scared in my life. If I catch COVID, I am just going to have my wife drive me to the hospital and dump me at the entrance to the ER. There is no way I am going to get in a helicopter again. I have plenty of other stories for bridge night, some of them true.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 02:54:49 pm by faberryman »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2154 on: October 10, 2020, 03:13:54 pm »

That was probably a Bell G-47 - like the ones on "MASH".

One of those provided my very first helicopter ride back in the 60s, one that thrilled me to my core.  Since then, I've accumulated several hundred hours riding (mostly inside) helicopters of various types.  I choose to describe them as a "magic carpet" and "the ultimate hot rod".

Sorry your ride was so discomforting.  I understand, though.  The G47 provides little emotional support.  There's nothing there that doesn't absolutely have to be there.

Anyway, back to topic.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2155 on: October 10, 2020, 03:25:13 pm »

Sorry your ride was so discomforting.  I understand, though.  The G47 provides little emotional support.  There's nothing there that doesn't absolutely have to be there.

Emotional support? I wanted physical support. You looked down at your feet and there was nothing there. Can you spell acrophobia? I get pretty edgy in a balcony.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 04:13:00 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2156 on: October 10, 2020, 04:37:02 pm »

Speaking of feeling uncomfortable, I wonder how uncomfortable Michigan legislators felt having to debate the extension of Covid restrictions while armed protestors stood in the gallery above carrying assault rifles, while others roamed the halls armed, and more stood out on the steps. Among them were two of the men arrested in the Michigan Governor kidnapping plot.

The man on the left side and third from the left in the photo linked below, from a State Senator, were arrested in the plot. "Directly above me, men with rifles yelling at us. Some of my colleagues who own bullet proof vests are wearing them. I have never appreciated our Sergeants-at-Arms more than today."

https://twitter.com/SenPolehanki/Photo Armed Men in Senate Gallery

Heavily Armed Protesters Gather Again At Michigan Capitol To Decry Stay-At-Home Order

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order

Ahead of Thursday's protest, comments were made in private Facebook groups threatening Whitmer and lawmakers with violence, according to reporting by the Detroit Metro Times.

Concern about Thursday's gathering was higher than previous protests. But rain and an interruption in planning — Facebook reportedly removed the organizers' private group from their platform for inciting violence — may have curbed the crowd, which seemed substantially smaller than two weeks ago. That was when armed protesters brought signs that compared Whitmer to Adolf Hitler, showed nooses and Confederate flags. Some signs read, "Tyrants Get The Rope."

During that gathering, demonstrators entered the Capitol and chanted: "Our House" and "Let Us In" outside of the House chamber against a line of Michigan State Police. Many protesters didn't wear masks or follow social distancing. Some armed demonstrators entered the Senate gallery and stood above lawmakers. At least one lawmaker donned a bulletproof vest.

After the second protest, state Democratic lawmakers requested that the Michigan State Capitol Commission ban guns on the premises. On Monday, the Democratic attorney general issued an opinion saying the appointed body had the authority to do so and warned against a "powder keg dynamic" created by heavily armed protesters.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey later called the notion of a gun ban "cowardly" in a floor speech
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2157 on: October 10, 2020, 06:15:59 pm »

I also wonder if those that believe the NRA promoted myth that the purpose of the 2nd amendment is for people to have the means to take up arms against the government believe this is what the framers had in mind. Walking thru the halls of government armed and standing over elected officials with rifles, really?

The 2nd amendment says... "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Some read it thru thick ideological goggles and they see... "Unregulated weapons, being necessary for people to overthrow the government, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

They also are blind to the parts of the Constitution [Article I - Section 8] that state: The Congress shall have power to provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions. The Congress shall have power to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.

How you divine from the Constitution and 2nd amendment an expressed intent of providing people with arms as a built-in self-destruct button for the overthrow of the government requires some creative reading skills.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 06:19:23 pm by TechTalk »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2158 on: October 10, 2020, 06:44:52 pm »

Speaking of guns, did you know there was a Facebook group for “Pointing Loaded Guns at Penises”? One guy accidentally shot himself in the penis and scrotum and became a hero. This is the level of intelligence of the guys in camouflage waiving their guns around at protests. At this point I'm wondering if Proud Boys refers to the militia members or their testicles. I’m guessing this is not what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Second Amendment. Where is Anton Scalia when you need him?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-california-man-shoots-self-in-dick-20200814-gze4sto2srbw7lfvzi2pjjxba4-story.html
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 07:54:37 pm by faberryman »
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chez

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2159 on: October 10, 2020, 06:55:54 pm »

If this is what the land of the free is all about...you can have it. I will continue living in the 20th century.
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