Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[hogloff]

I agree that we all want to be reasonable.  But everyone has a different situation.  For example, my wife and I are retired.  We're not working. We both get Social Security and government pensions. We're both on Medicare so health costs aren't an issue.  Those will continue regardless.  So we'll be OK.  We're lucky, well, except we're old farts.

I've been speaking with a lot of younger people who work and are not now.  They've been laid off.  They're worried sick they cannot pay their bills, feed their families, will lose their health insurance, their cars, their homes.  They have children in college, well, they're home now. But how will they afford tuition?  Starving forces people to do crazy stuff.  In Stalingrad during WWII, people became cannibals to eat, cutting arms off of the dead lying in the street.

And the richest country in the world is going to let their citizens get to desperation mode? So much for being rich.

[KLaban]

I agree that we all want to be reasonable.  But everyone has a different situation.  For example, my wife and I are retired.  We're not working. We both get Social Security and government pensions. We're both on Medicare so health costs aren't an issue.  Those will continue regardless.  So we'll be OK.  We're lucky, well, except we're old farts.

I've been speaking with a lot of younger people who work and are not now.  They've been laid off.  They're worried sick they cannot pay their bills, feed their families, will lose their health insurance, their cars, their homes.  They have children in college, well, they're home now. But how will they afford tuition?  Starving forces people to do crazy stuff.  In Stalingrad during WWII, people became cannibals to eat, cutting arms off of the dead lying in the street.

So, what do you propose?

[Alan Klein]

The belief is depending on how much Karma one accumulates, they might come back in a better position than when they left or in a lower class. In your case Alan, if you break your isolation and go out...I would think you'd lose a bunch of Karma and maybe come back as a rat.

Here I was hoping you'd come back as a rajah yet you want me to come back as a rat.  Hmmm. 

[Craig Lamson]

You got to be continually tested because you don't know that door handle you just opened didn't have the virus on it just waiting for a host.

White House to test visitors for virus

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/03/white-house-give-coronavirus-tests-people-near-donald-trump/2942704001/

[Alan Klein]

So, what do you propose?

I wasn't proposing anything.  I was just trying to show how important an economy is.  In the old days, we could live on subsistence.  We'd grab our guns and go shoot a moose to eat.  Today we have to work along with others.  NYC has 8 1/2 million people, 25,000 people per square mile.  There are no mooses around. 

[hogloff]

Here I was hoping you'd come back as a rajah yet you want me to come back as a rat.  Hmmm.

It's never too late to build up your karma.

Actually the Hindus try to break the reincarnation cycle and stay in heaven forever. I've watched bodies being cremated along the Ganges in open fires nod their ashes thrown into the sacred river with the thought your soul would remain in heaven.

[hogloff]

I wasn't proposing anything.  I was just trying to show how important an economy is.  In the old days, we could live on subsistence.  We'd grab our guns and go shoot a moose to eat.  Today we have to work along with others.  NYC has 8 1/2 million people, 25,000 people per square mile.  There are no mooses around.

Still tons of guns around...but not to shoot moose...

[William Walker]

Once again, if you have the capacity, Trump never denied the pandemic, his experts did not deny the pandemic and told the worldv of their findings and suggestions.  Every Governor had access the the information.    The law limits the Presidents actions. He did and is doing what he can.  The rest belongs to the States.  Welcome to the USA.

My earlier post regarding the "National Emergencies Act" stands.

However, for the sake of argument, let us assume you are right regarding the presidents limitations (legal) - he still has the The Public Health Services Act -

"The act clearly established the federal government's quarantine authority for the first time. It gave the United States Public Health Service responsibility for preventing the introduction, transmission and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States.

He could have, six weeks ago, put the entire country under quarantine and you guys would be in a much better position than you are now.

Before you talk about hindsight, remember that other countries did precisely that...

And that is as far down this rabbit hole I am going with you.

[hogloff]

White House to test visitors for virus

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/03/white-house-give-coronavirus-tests-people-near-donald-trump/2942704001/

Ok...that's smart...but coming on TV standing shoulder to shoulder at the podium while preaching separation gives you very conflicting pictures.

[PeterAit]

In the present circumstances, and considering we speak of the difference between life and death, damned sure I would approve of "ratting them out" as you like to put it.

This is not some pathetic little school playground situation; I would have thought any adult would appreciate the differences of both circumstance and degree. Apparently, not always so in the States. However, it does go some way to understamding the juvenile approach to guns, politics, lying leaders and the absolute absorption with self.

In Raleigh, NC, a public bus driver continued driving his bus for three days WITH covid-19 symptoms. And his job had paid sick time. And his employer had told the drivers that they could take paid sick time for CV symptoms without it counting against them. Yes, such people should be "ratted out" and put in forced isolation.

[Alan Klein]

It's never too late to build up your karma.

Actually the Hindus try to break the reincarnation cycle and stay in heaven forever. I've watched bodies being cremated along the Ganges in open fires nod their ashes thrown into the sacred river with the thought your soul would remain in heaven.

I'm still working on staying alive down here.  I think I'll let God decide what happens later. 

[Alan Klein]

Still tons of guns around...but not to shoot moose...

Different thread.

[Alan Klein]

My earlier post regarding the "National Emergencies Act" stands.

However, for the sake of argument, let us assume you are right regarding the presidents limitations (legal) - he still has the The Public Health Services Act -

"The act clearly established the federal government's quarantine authority for the first time. It gave the United States Public Health Service responsibility for preventing the introduction, transmission and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States.

He could have, six weeks ago, put the entire country under quarantine and you guys would be in a much better position than you are now.

Before you talk about hindsight, remember that other countries did precisely that...

And that is as far down this rabbit hole I am going with you.

He's been burned before.  He tried to keep Muslim terrorists out of the country and look what happened.  Once burned, twice foolish. 

[Craig Lamson]

Ok...that's smart...but coming on TV standing shoulder to shoulder at the podium while preaching separation gives you very conflicting pictures.

Not to me.  YMMV

[Alan Klein]

Ok...that's smart...but coming on TV standing shoulder to shoulder at the podium while preaching separation gives you very conflicting pictures.

Who wants their president to look like a nerd, a wimp wearing a mask? He's not the Lone Ranger.   Can you imagine the lack of confidence it would generate if he stood there with all his Joint Chief of Staff generals and admirals all wearing surgical masks?  Our enemies would laugh at us.  How presidential does Biden look hiding in his basement sneezing into his hands getting criticized by CNN's Jake Tapper?

[Manoli]

The US Navy is probably the most traditional of all the branches. Captains go down with their ship.  You don't embarrass your commander or the navy by sending out emails to 20-30 people to cover your ass and make it seem like others weren't doing their job.  ...

Newsweek

CORONAVIRUS
Veterans have spoken out against the decision to relieve the captain of the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt after he sent a letter to the Navy pleading for help after his ship was stricken with the coronavirus.

Thomas Modly, the acting secretary of the Navy, accused Capt. Brett Crozier of having "poor judgment" for using a "non-secure, unclassified" email address to write an email to his immediate chain of command which also included "20 or 30" additional recipients.

Crozier's letter, which was then leaked and published by the San Francisco Chronicle, asked officials for help in isolating more than 4,000 sailors onboard the aircraft carrier docked in Guam, after a COVID-19 outbreak was detected among its crew. A day after the letter was published, around 1,000 sailors were removed from the Theodore Roosevelt. A total of 114 crew have since tested positive for COVID-19.

Crozier said the move was necessary as the warship's "inherent limitations of space" meant the virus was spreading rapidly despite the other crew members distancing themselves.

"This will require a political solution but it is the right thing to do," Crozier wrote. "We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die. If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset — our Sailors."

Speaking at a press conference, Modly said Crozier was not relieved because the letter was leaked — although he "did not take care to ensure that it couldn't be leaked," noting it appeared in his hometown paper — but for causing unnecessary panic.

A video posted on Facebook by a sailor onboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt says everything there is to say about the firing of Navy Capt. Brett Crozier about how things look to a sailor or soldier when they are out there doing their jobs, compared to the view from a desk in Washington, DC.

Hundreds of sailors stood in the hanger deck of the aircraft carrier shouting, applauding and cheering for their C.O. after he was relieved of command by Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly.

"That's how you send out one of the greatest captains you ever had," the video maker narrates as you watch sailors crowded together cheering, "... the man for the people."

The official cause for Captain Crozier's firing is showing "extremely poor judgment" in bringing attention to the spread of coronavirus amongst his crew. His sending of a letter calling for help "demonstrated extremely poor judgment in the middle of a crisis," Modly says. "Because what it's done is, it's created a firestorm. It's created doubts about the ship's ability to go to sea if it needs to. It's created doubt among the families about the health of their sailors, and that was a completely unnecessary thing to do in the midst of the crisis."

The firing of Captain Crozier rings of political pressure from on high, especially because the ship's captain went public in his concern for the health and safety of the thousands of sailors under his command.

So there you go ,

Prezzie, against the express wishes of his military chiefs and the verdict of a court-martial allows a war criminal (Edward Gallagher) to keep his  SEAL status (and pension) - yet a Commander respected and 'loved' by his crew on board one of America's nuclear aircraft carriers gets the sack for ...

Perspective.

video: https://t.co/hwiu7Z1MVV
video: https://www.facebook.com/1093930141/videos/10216506735516262/

[hogloff]

Not to me.  YMMV

It's not mileage that varies...it's the general US population that is looking at their leader at times if crisis. Image plays a huge role in leadership.

[hogloff]

Who wants their president to look like a nerd, a wimp wearing a mask? He's not the Lone Ranger.   Can you imagine the lack of confidence it would generate if he stood there with all his Joint Chief of Staff generals and admirals all wearing surgical masks?  Our enemies would laugh at us.  How presidential does Biden look hiding in his basement sneezing into his hands getting criticized by CNN's Jake Tapper?

I'm not talking about wearing a mask, I talking about standing 2 meters apart from one another...exactly what he is asking the citizens to do.

[Alan Klein]

Newsweek

So there you go ,

Prezzie, against the express wishes of his military chiefs and the verdict of a court-martial allows a war criminal (Edward Gallagher) to keep his  SEAL status (and pension) - yet a Commander respected and 'loved' by his crew on board one of America's nuclear aircraft carriers gets the sack for ...

Perspective.

https://www.facebook.com/1093930141/videos/10216506735516262/

I'm sure his sailors and officers respected him greatly.  I respect that. He tried to take care of them.  That was the right thing to do.

But he did it in a wrong way.  The Navy is run by officers through a chain of command.  He should have respected that and made his request and given the issues to his immediate commanding officer to handle.  He didn't try to resolve it at that level.  He went over his boss's head.  Not only that, he sent the same complaint letter or email to 20-30 people.  Why?  It seems like he was trying to protect his ass and didn't have the courage and trust his immediate commanders to handle the situation. He embarrassed his boss by doing that, showing a lack of respect.

Did you ever work for a boss and then if you didn't like what he was doing went over his head to his boss to complain before talking to him about it first?   Well, what do you think happens to you? Well, that's what happened here.  If you have hierarchies in civilian life, it's tens times more strict in the Navy. You don't violate protocol.  It shows you as a loose cannon on a ship, no pun intended.  Will you follow orders in the future during a war or put your ship and men into a threat of your own making? Will you embarrass your superiors and the Navy by not following the rules? 

[John Camp]

Newsweek

So there you go ,

Prezzie, against the express wishes of his military chiefs and the verdict of a court-martial allows a war criminal (Edward Gallagher) to keep his  SEAL status (and pension) - yet a Commander respected and 'loved' by his crew on board one of America's nuclear aircraft carriers gets the sack for ...

Perspective.

video: https://t.co/hwiu7Z1MVV
video: https://www.facebook.com/1093930141/videos/10216506735516262/

It's a fuckin' disgrace.