Brexit Encore

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

That's best, cool and unemotional statement so far...

Says an unbiased expat, with a vested interest.

Rob, my dear friend, we understand that you are reasoning from your personal perspective. It is ok. We understand. I would probably be the same. Rooting for my own team, no matter what. Being a loyal fan. But you can't count on others to take that position as objective, "cool and unemotional." 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So just over a quarter of the population wanted to leave then. Not really a convincing majority really...

As in any other democratic election, what counts is the majority of those who decided to vote. 4% difference is quite a majority in today's democracies, where elections are often decided close to 50% +1 vote.

... This leads us to a ridiculous aspect of the referendum... They made outrageous claims and lied to try to sway gullible voters...

Another ridiculous assertion. Boths sides had a chance to make outrageous claims and sway gullible voters, or refute them.

... (ie a super majority of two thirds of votes cast) ...

The first referendum, in 1975, did not have that requirement either.  I agree, in principle, that such critical decisions deserve a 2/3 majority. However, it should have been done so for both referendums, or, at least, proposed prior to the second one.

[TonyW]

If you want a reasoned, respectful debate you'll need to stop using derogatory language about people whose opinions differ to your own.

Right back at ya!

If you manage to have a reasoned discussion with a pro-brexit supporter they'll always agree that leaving the EU is far more momentous decision than a general election

You think it is correct to make what you see as witty although certainly snide comments is OK but others cannot?
You think it correct to call those that do not agree with you "gullible"

[TonyW]

Says an unbiased expat, with a vested interest.

Rob, my dear friend, we understand that you are reasoning from your personal perspective. It is ok. We understand. I would probably be the same. Rooting for my own team, no matter what. Being a loyal fan. But you can't count on others to take that position as objective, "cool and unemotional."

Well said

[TonyW]

As in any other democratic election, what counts is the majority of those who decided to vote. 4% difference is quite a majority in today's democracies, where elections are often decided close to 50% +1 vote.

Another ridiculous assertion. Boths sides had a chance to make outrageous claims and sway gullible voters, or refute them.

The first referendum, in 1975, did not have that requirement either.  I agree, in principle, that such critical decisions deserve a 2/3 majority. However, it should have been done so for both referendums, or, at least, proposed prior to the second one.

Absolutely outrageous claims made on all sides typical for political rivalries

[Rhossydd]

Right back at ya!

Please feel free to point out any time I've used a derogatory term or insult about anyone who has voted to leave, here or anywhere else.

[TonyW]

Please feel free to point out any time I've used a derogatory term or insult about anyone who has voted to leave, here or anywhere else.

You first.  The same question directed back to you as you seem to think I have made derogatory comment

[jeremyrh]

Sooooo easy to blame somebody else instead of admitting that people wanted what they voted for.

If only there was some way for the ones who voted to leave to enjoy the consequences, without affecting the rest of us. I'd be more than happy to see the ex-Nissan workers and ex-Welsh steel workers reflecting on their choice while watching daytime TV, but it saddens me that their foolishness has such a bad impact on folks like Rob (and me, to a lesser extent I suspect).

[jeremyrh]

You first.  The same question directed back to you as you seem to think I have made derogatory comment

"Remoaner". Obviously.

[jeremyrh]

Absolutely outrageous claims made on all sides typical for political rivalries

Hardly. To some extent I agree with you that the choice was made and must be respected, but the role of fake news and social media cannot be ignored (see Carole Cadwalladr's TED talk for example, and recent Channel 4 investigation of Aaron Banks)

[TonyW]

"Remoaner". Obviously.

Seriously? 
So I cannot have a reaction to being classed as a racist which is so far from reality.

[Rhossydd]

You first.  The same question directed back to you as you seem to think I have made derogatory comment

Your reply at #85 using the term 'remoaners' is derogatory.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Your reply at #85 using the term 'remoaners' is derogatory.

It is not a libel if it is factual

[TonyW]

Hardly. To some extent I agree with you that the choice was made and must be respected, but the role of fake news and social media cannot be ignored (see Carole Cadwalladr's TED talk for example, and recent Channel 4 investigation of Aaron Banks)

I also to some extent agree with you but the lies and falsehoods have been perpetrated by all sides to meet their own political ends.  There is an equal amount of remainer falsehoods well documented and published by the media

[TonyW]

Your reply at #85 using the term 'remoaners' is derogatory.

I take on board what you say but have to disagree

Now to your question about your derogatory remarks although already touched upon in an earlier post:

Your implication that it not possible to have reasoned discussion with a pro-Brexit supporter = derogatory
Your belief that you can just call those that do not share your views gullible = derogatory

[jeremyrh]

I also to some extent agree with you but the lies and falsehoods have been perpetrated by all sides to meet their own political ends.  There is an equal amount of remainer falsehoods well documented and published by the media

I don't recall anything on the Remain side approximating the Farage posters of non-white refugees, for example. I think this appeal to racism is completely different from economic predictions.

[jeremyrh]

Seriously? 
So I cannot have a reaction to being classed as a racist which is so far from reality.

You can, but you can't then claim that you didn't use derogatory language.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I don't recall anything on the Remain side approximating the Farage posters of non-white refugees, for example. I think this appeal to racism is completely different from economic predictions.

Why is not willing to let non-compatible cultures in equated with racism?

[TonyW]

I don't recall anything on the Remain side approximating the Farage posters of non-white refugees, for example. I think this appeal to racism is completely different from economic predictions.

I agree I was very uncomfortable with Farage poster campaign and racism is a definite no go area.  One reason why I would not want to even consider becoming a Corbinite as according to a number of reports racism/ antisemitism is rearing its head once again in major political parties

[TonyW]

You can, but you can't then claim that you didn't use derogatory language.

OK, but how is using Remoaners worse than using Brexiteers and is it really seen as derogatory unless intended as such?
Do you think that being accused of racism incorrectly and unfairly can be justified in spite of evidence to the contrary?