Classic Left-Wing Logic

[jeremyrh]

WTF do auto-flush toilets have to do with a left wing state?

Don't even ask, Peter - the answer would just make you despair.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

WTF do auto-flush toilets have to do with a left wing state?

How about everything? Have you ever seen right-wing tree huggers, global warming alarmists or I-would-rather-see-human-race-extinct-than-environment-harmed nuts?

[Rob C]

How about everything? Have you ever seen right-wing tree huggers, global warming alarmists or I-would-rather-see-human-race-extinct-than-environment-harmed nuts?

Well, you could say the state is perfectly happy to flush you down the pan when you are no more use to it... That probably applies to all wings of state, though, left and right.

[RSL]

Seems that way more and more nowadays, Rob, but there was a time when people rose up and refused to be flushed down the pan by the state. It was called the American Revolution.

[Robert Roaldi]

And maybe even the Cuban revolution? 

[Farmer]

Seems that way more and more nowadays, Rob, but there was a time when people rose up and refused to be flushed down the pan by the state. It was called the American Revolution.

I'm sure you remember it well, Russ ;-)

[RSL]

Actually, Phil, I learned about it in school, back in the days when they were teaching instead of indoctrinating.

[Alan Klein]

I've used and noticed that waterless urinals stink, are dirty, and not cared for properly.  Personally, I'd rather use one that uses water. 

This reminds when there was a water crisis in NYC a few decades ago.  The restaurants stopped serving water.  You had to ask for it like a desert traveler crawling  into an oasis with your tongue hanging out and dragging in the sand. I think they save about 1/10 of 1% of water a day.  I guess the politicians were trying to make a point.  They went ahead and instituted limited shower heads so you can;t get a real blast from your shower, one of the great joys of living,  unless you clandestinely remove the flow restrictor in the head, which I did when I lived there.  Every time I took a shower, I used to fear that the water Nazis would break into my bathroom while I was sudsing up, arrest me and drag me away naked. 

[LesPalenik]

I'd hate to see that.

[Alan Klein]

Yeah.  It wouldn't be pretty.

[Farmer]

Actually, Phil, I learned about it in school, back in the days when they were teaching instead of indoctrinating.

I have 7 nieces and nephews, aged 14 to 23, so their school experience is very recent or current.  They're being taught a lot, including how to learn and how to research (real research, from proper sources).  Those at university, of course, have an even more developed skill in research and learning and they're working as well and gaining life experience - also through travel.

What they're being taught about learning and research is far, far better than I received.  They will finish school with more knowledge and more understanding and more ability to learn than I did, as I had more than my parent, and so on.

That's not to say that various teachers don't have views on things that they take on board at various times, for better or worse, but it's far from being indoctrination.  It's merely different to your experience, not wrong.

My 18 year old niece, who is taking a gap year and travelling and working, and who is a talented artist (but will be pursuing environmental studies as she is far more interested in that) and has a wonderful eye for photography, was telling me last night at her grandfather's 80th birthday dinner, that there's no art in photography.  It's all mathematics.  Push the button.  She felt that art doesn't need maths.  I asked about Escher.  She pondered and we drank more wine and the discussion broadened with my wife and a nephew (16) and another nephew's girlfriend (22) about discussion versus argument and the value of honest and robust discourse.

She thinks about things.  She knows how to learn.  She's not an exception in that regard.  Don't be like the apocryphal Charles Holland Duell, but rather like the real one, "In my opinion, all previous advances in the various lines of invention will appear totally insignificant when compared with those which the present century will witness. I almost wish that I might live my life over again to see the wonders which are at the threshold."

I think you think that your glass is half empty because the younger generations drank the other half of your drink.  I think mine's half full because they've topped it up for me.

[LesPalenik]

Taking the OP to the extreme,

An Australian sexuality educator has created quite a stink over her suggestion for teaching babies the concept of consent, by asking them for permission before changing their diapers. Deanne Carson, a sexuality educator with Body Safety Australia, which offers programs on empowering children and protecting them from child abuse, was interviewed on national public broadcaster ABC News earlier this week. During the segment, she explained that she works with newborns’ parents to help them create a “culture of consent” early in life.

Carson used the example of changing a baby’s diaper or “nappy” to illustrate her point. “‘I’m going to change your nappy now. Is that okay?’” she said as an example of how to pose the question. The educator’s remarks set off a firestorm of debate online with many on social media mocking her ideas and criticizing her credentials. Sky News Australia commentator Rowan Dean labelled Carson’s position as “left lunacy.”

one of the comments:
She is fairly stupid though. Because the nappy has to be changed no matter how the baby reacts, so if they react negatively, the message they’ll receive is that their consent is irrelevant. By this woman’s own logic, that is - which is bad logic.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/should-parents-seek-baby-s-permission-before-changing-a-diaper-1.3925242

[Rob C]

Taking the OP to the extreme,

one of the comments:
She is fairly stupid though. Because the nappy has to be changed no matter how the baby reacts, so if they react negatively, the message they’ll receive is that their consent is irrelevant. By this woman’s own logic, that is - which is bad logic.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/should-parents-seek-baby-s-permission-before-changing-a-diaper-1.3925242

It's like a rapist getting away with it because he claims to have asked permission first, which might well even have been true.

Silly old world these days!

[RSL]

I have 7 nieces and nephews, aged 14 to 23, so their school experience is very recent or current.  They're being taught a lot, including how to learn and how to research (real research, from proper sources).  Those at university, of course, have an even more developed skill in research and learning and they're working as well and gaining life experience - also through travel.

What they're being taught about learning and research is far, far better than I received.  They will finish school with more knowledge and more understanding and more ability to learn than I did, as I had more than my parent, and so on.

That's not to say that various teachers don't have views on things that they take on board at various times, for better or worse, but it's far from being indoctrination.  It's merely different to your experience, not wrong.

My 18 year old niece, who is taking a gap year and travelling and working, and who is a talented artist (but will be pursuing environmental studies as she is far more interested in that) and has a wonderful eye for photography, was telling me last night at her grandfather's 80th birthday dinner, that there's no art in photography.  It's all mathematics.  Push the button.  She felt that art doesn't need maths.  I asked about Escher.  She pondered and we drank more wine and the discussion broadened with my wife and a nephew (16) and another nephew's girlfriend (22) about discussion versus argument and the value of honest and robust discourse.

She thinks about things.  She knows how to learn.  She's not an exception in that regard.  Don't be like the apocryphal Charles Holland Duell, but rather like the real one, "In my opinion, all previous advances in the various lines of invention will appear totally insignificant when compared with those which the present century will witness. I almost wish that I might live my life over again to see the wonders which are at the threshold."

I think you think that your glass is half empty because the younger generations drank the other half of your drink.  I think mine's half full because they've topped it up for me.

Not exactly, Phil. I have seventeen grandkids, all of whom are now grown up. They're all doing well, so my glass is full to overflowing. I also have fifteen great-grands with two more on the way. I've watched what passes for "education" for a long time now. Most young people don't know the difference between the verbs "to lie" and "to lay." Now that's a small and reasonably insignificant thing, but it illustrates the breakdown in our government-run education system. Nowadays most teachers don't know the difference either. I could go on and on, but the reason my grands are doing well isn't the school system. It's the attention their parents gave them.

[Rob C]

Not exactly, Phil. I have seventeen grandkids, all of whom are now grown up. They're all doing well, so my glass is full to overflowing. I also have fifteen great-grands with two more on the way. I've watched what passes for "education" for a long time now. Most young people don't know the difference between the verbs "to lie" and "to lay." Now that's a small and reasonably insignificant thing, but it illustrates the breakdown in our government-run education system. Nowadays most teachers don't know the difference either. I could go on and on, but the reason my grands are doing well isn't the school system. It's the attention their parents gave them.

You could toss in the difference between there and their, and the even more strange confusion between there and than.

I see it too often for it to be a case of the Rob C dyslexic fingers syndrome.

Let's not even touch on the begging of questions!

:-)

Rob

P.S.

To amplify a little: it isn't even all about teachers or domestic environment. I grew up in a multi-lingual family and, until the age of starting school, I spoke English and Italian with equal ease. Once school took me, Italian was neglected and is now almost as passive as the French I studied in various school. But, most importantly, home was a place where there were books on art and reading was encouraged, of anything, appropriate for a kid or not. My mother was the one who took me to art galleries in London, and from whom I caught the bug. But, it wasn't a formal sort of domestic education; the choices were simply available and it was really up to me to take advantage of them or not.

My two granddaughters were, as children, avid readers, even when out here in Mallorca on holiday. That certainly helped them slip comfortably into the study modes required to become, respectively, lawyers and doctors. I could never have applied my mind in that way.

[RSL]

Let's not even touch on the begging of questions!

:-)

Rob

I touch on it probably more often than I should, Rob (http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/recessional.html), and it's a hair- tearer. But then, I'm a curmudgeon. I love the beauty of the English language, ignorance of which among its speakers seems to be growing exponentially.

[Rob C]

I touch on it probably more often than I should, Rob (http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/recessional.html), and it's a hair- tearer. But then, I'm a curmudgeon. I love the beauty of the English language, ignorance of which among its speakers seems to be growing exponentially.

The depressing thing is, it is very common even on BBC tv where one assumes you require a degree to become an employable "face" for the fronting of serious programmes.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... My 18 year old niece, who is taking a gap year and travelling and working, and who is a talented artist (but will be pursuing environmental studies as she is far more interested in that) ...

There you go... a clear sign of indoctrination.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Speaking about a “culture of consent”:

... Here are ten words for even more ways men are constantly oppressing women:

1. Broplimenting

This is when a guy says something nice to you without asking for your consent first. Men should always ask, “Do you consent to me complimenting you?” before saying anything nice or else it’s assault..l

Ten Ways Men Oppress Women with Their Everyday Behavior https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/01/ten-ways-men-oppress-women-their-everyday-behavior-katherine-timpf/

[Alan Klein]

Ego blocks Truth.  We tend to believe and confirm in our minds that what we already believe or that which benefits us.  We also tend to believe that what is taught us or what we are exposed too as being correct.  Our political opinions numb our reasoning ability.

I believe that years ago we were more open though to listen to others.  Today, people with opposing positions are shut down or demeaned.  We've become more dogmatic.  College has little effect.  In may have made it worse as professors seem to be allowing less discussion of all viewpoints.  Students are being taught that their way is the way.