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Author Topic: Classic Left-Wing Logic  (Read 7496 times)

RSL

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2018, 09:25:40 am »

Not exactly, Phil. I have seventeen grandkids, all of whom are now grown up. They're all doing well, so my glass is full to overflowing. I also have fifteen great-grands with two more on the way. I've watched what passes for "education" for a long time now. Most young people don't know the difference between the verbs "to lie" and "to lay." Now that's a small and reasonably insignificant thing, but it illustrates the breakdown in our government-run education system. Nowadays most teachers don't know the difference either. I could go on and on, but the reason my grands are doing well isn't the school system. It's the attention their parents gave them.

One thing I forgot to mention: Several of my grandkids were home-schooled. That was in Colorado Springs, Colorado, which supposedly has a wonderful school system.

Rob C

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2018, 10:21:07 am »

Ego blocks Truth.  We tend to believe and confirm in our minds that what we already believe or that which benefits us.  We also tend to believe that what is taught us or what we are exposed too as being correct.  Our political opinions numb our reasoning ability.

I believe that years ago we were more open though to listen to others.  Today, people with opposing positions are shut down or demeaned.  We've become more dogmatic.  College has little effect.  In may have made it worse as professors seem to be allowing less discussion of all viewpoints. Students are being taught that their way is the way.

As I understood it, it's the opposite way around: "educators" are discouraged from making students feel emotions that may contradict their native beliefs. That's why some invited speakers are either prevented from fulfilling their invitation, or get shouted down or even physically assaulted.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2018, 10:44:09 am »

..."educators" are discouraged from making students feel emotions that may contradict their native beliefs...

PeterAit

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2018, 02:44:15 pm »

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Peter
"Science does not care what you believe" - unknown

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2018, 04:59:58 pm »

Speaking about a “culture of consent”:

Ten Ways Men Oppress Women with Their Everyday Behavior https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/01/ten-ways-men-oppress-women-their-everyday-behavior-katherine-timpf/

I wish I could believe that that article was intended to be a joke. I really do.

Jeremy
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PeterAit

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2018, 05:50:45 pm »

I wish I could believe that that article was intended to be a joke. I really do.

Jeremy


Uhh, it's rather obvious!
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Peter
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2018, 06:23:27 pm »

Uhh, it's rather obvious!

Except it is so close to truth that it is scary. As a Russian proverb would say: “In every joke there is a fraction of... joke.”

Farmer

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2018, 03:33:00 am »

Russ, your glass is full of family which is absolutely wonderful.  I was referring to the broader drink, where you feel they are all poorly taught with a poor system and less knowledgeable and capable than you.  I couldn't disagree more, which is no slight upon you, by the way, nor upon myself for that matter.  There is simply more knowledge each generation and better ways of dealing with it and accessing it.

Perhaps the US really is terrible, but I doubt it.  Far more likely is that some folks insist it was "better in their day" or they don't like that what's being taught now is different to what they were taught, regardless of the facts of the matter, and so they call it poor or wrong or indoctrination or what have you.  I think that's nonsense.  I'm sure there are poor teachers and schools, but by and large I can see that the system (here, at least) is working very well.  Not without challenges, of course, but it was ever so.

As someone who is currently in the education system (albeit post grad), and with so many family members (my wife included) in the system from high school to post grad, I've quite a decent view.
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Phil Brown

Rob C

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2018, 07:20:40 am »

Russ, your glass is full of family which is absolutely wonderful.  I was referring to the broader drink, where you feel they are all poorly taught with a poor system and less knowledgeable and capable than you.  I couldn't disagree more, which is no slight upon you, by the way, nor upon myself for that matter.  There is simply more knowledge each generation and better ways of dealing with it and accessing it.

Perhaps the US really is terrible, but I doubt it.  Far more likely is that some folks insist it was "better in their day" or they don't like that what's being taught now is different to what they were taught, regardless of the facts of the matter, and so they call it poor or wrong or indoctrination or what have you.  I think that's nonsense.  I'm sure there are poor teachers and schools, but by and large I can see that the system (here, at least) is working very well.  Not without challenges, of course, but it was ever so.

As someone who is currently in the education system (albeit post grad), and with so many family members (my wife included) in the system from high school to post grad, I've quite a decent view.

And, based on the disclosures within the last paragraph, you would write that, wouldn't you?

:-)

RSL

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2018, 07:50:33 am »

Russ, your glass is full of family which is absolutely wonderful.  I was referring to the broader drink, where you feel they are all poorly taught with a poor system and less knowledgeable and capable than you.  I couldn't disagree more, which is no slight upon you, by the way, nor upon myself for that matter.  There is simply more knowledge each generation and better ways of dealing with it and accessing it.

Perhaps the US really is terrible, but I doubt it.  Far more likely is that some folks insist it was "better in their day" or they don't like that what's being taught now is different to what they were taught, regardless of the facts of the matter, and so they call it poor or wrong or indoctrination or what have you.  I think that's nonsense.  I'm sure there are poor teachers and schools, but by and large I can see that the system (here, at least) is working very well.  Not without challenges, of course, but it was ever so.

As someone who is currently in the education system (albeit post grad), and with so many family members (my wife included) in the system from high school to post grad, I've quite a decent view.

Hi Phil,

The difference is that after they left school my grandkids educated themselves, except for the ones who'd been home-schooled and didn't need to fill in the blanks. And as far as family members in the education system are concerned, my dad taught when he was younger, my mother taught high school English, both of my grandmothers were teachers, my aunts all were teachers, one was a geology PhD who was head of the geology department at University of Houston, another uncle was a professor at Michigan State. I taught the C programming language at Colorado Tech until I couldn't afford to take more time away from my software business. So don't get too far into that "decent view" idea.

Check this: http://www.greensboro.com/townnews/education/walter-williams-test-scores-reveal-educational-fraud-from-k-to/article_04af41fd-ec48-5fd1-961a-48141c26bd39.html. It may be an eye-opener.

Rob C

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2018, 08:27:50 am »

Russ, don't for a second imagine that that kind of thing is unique to the U.S. situation.

It flourishes in the U.K. too, and in Scotland, where university education is nominally free, apart from the personal problems of student accommodation, it seems a bit more perverse yet, because the ease of slipping into an academic life beyond one's natural ability has the added effect of taking up space others better equipped might have had. Sure, there is vetting of applicants, but add in the social engineering aspect of taking in the "challenged" brigade, and universities are faced with awful complications.

Oxbridge is regularly chastised for its demographic tone, but think for a moment: university is also a very socially focussed experience: how does somebody from a "normal" non-rich family cope with the expensive extra-curricular activities without the ease of financial access available to the others? Is that the making of a happy experience? If anything, I think it would breed bitterness by the ton. With all the future ramifications of that! One need only look at some politicians - and media folks - to see what it's done to them.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 08:49:16 am by Rob C »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2018, 09:11:22 am »

..l There is simply more knowledge each generation and better ways of dealing with it and accessing it...

There is simply more information, which shouldn’t be equated with knowledge.

Rob C

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2018, 09:56:57 am »

There is simply more information, which shouldn’t be equated with knowledge.


That's a pretty shrewd analysis. Add the fact that Google allows for the instant expert on everything - but an expert who forgets within ten seconds - and Internet conversation itself ends up being a fairly suspect medium where only repeated exposure to someone (and the inevitable cracks in consistency that appear) is enough to blow that person's credibility.

Alan Klein

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2018, 11:06:00 am »

An example of how a professor taught his kids about Socialism.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/646/does_socialism_work_a_classroom_experiment

Farmer

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2018, 03:48:39 pm »

And, based on the disclosures within the last paragraph, you would write that, wouldn't you?

I'm never shy to complain about things, Rob :-)  I pay a lot of money for my ongoing studies, and a lot of time devoted to it.  When it's not up to scratch, I say so.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2018, 03:49:57 pm »

There is simply more information, which shouldn’t be equated with knowledge.

There's both!  DIKW - Data, Information, Knowledge, Wisdom.  I used knowledge deliberately.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2018, 03:57:02 pm »

Hi Phil,

The difference is that after they left school my grandkids educated themselves, except for the ones who'd been home-schooled and didn't need to fill in the blanks. And as far as family members in the education system are concerned, my dad taught when he was younger, my mother taught high school English, both of my grandmothers were teachers, my aunts all were teachers, one was a geology PhD who was head of the geology department at University of Houston, another uncle was a professor at Michigan State. I taught the C programming language at Colorado Tech until I couldn't afford to take more time away from my software business. So don't get too far into that "decent view" idea.

Check this: http://www.greensboro.com/townnews/education/walter-williams-test-scores-reveal-educational-fraud-from-k-to/article_04af41fd-ec48-5fd1-961a-48141c26bd39.html. It may be an eye-opener.

This notion that homeschooling was so perfect that no further education was needed concerns me.  Anyway, a "decent view" means exactly that.  Currently partaking and watching.  Do you think all your relatives who taught, or you, were terrible?  Or were you all just the exceptions?

Regarding your link - if that's accurate, then I'm wrong.  There is no doubt that the US is in real trouble.  Sorry.  I'd offer some suggestions of a better system, but you don't think I know anything :-)
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Phil Brown

JoeKitchen

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2018, 03:59:33 pm »

There's both!  DIKW - Data, Information, Knowledge, Wisdom.  I used knowledge deliberately.

Seriously? ???

Come on.  More information, yes.  More data, yes.  More knowledge, debatable, I side with Slobo, by a hair. 

More Wisdom, give me a break!  There is neither more nor less wisdom today, since wisdom has nothing to do with advances in information and knowledge.  Wisdom is gained on a personal level from experience and the ability of a person to learn from their mistakes, which has nothing to do with schooling. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 04:04:05 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2018, 04:01:35 pm »

Anyway, this made the news today in my area. 

Party Like It's 1776!

Thank God for those Social Justice Warriors to remind us foolish patriots how insensitive this was.   
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Joe Kitchen
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RSL

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Re: Classic Left-Wing Logic
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2018, 04:24:41 pm »

This notion that homeschooling was so perfect that no further education was needed concerns me.  Anyway, a "decent view" means exactly that.  Currently partaking and watching.  Do you think all your relatives who taught, or you, were terrible?  Or were you all just the exceptions?

Regarding your link - if that's accurate, then I'm wrong.  There is no doubt that the US is in real trouble.  Sorry.  I'd offer some suggestions of a better system, but you don't think I know anything :-)

Problem is, I didn't say what you seem to think I said, Phil. Of course further education was needed. It always is. But at least the kids who were home schooled knew the difference between the verbs "to lie" and "to lay," and, I think, understood what "It begs the question" means. I'm not sure the others ever will learn the difference, but they've learned to do software development and other things very well. A couple teach and a couple are attorneys.

You gotta remember that when my relatives were teaching, "teaching" meant something different from what it means now. What's called "teaching" nowadays often is left-wing indoctrination.

And I loved to teach, which is why I was willing to give up hours I'd normally have been able to charge out at $100 an hour or more, and receive the equivalent of about $15 per classroom hour and have to correct papers and grade tests on my own dime. I did a good enough job that the dean begged me to stay, but much as I loved teaching I simply couldn't afford to do it. Later on I taught the C++ programming language to a group at Cirrus Logic's R&D center in Colorado, but I was adequately compensated for that.

And yes, the US is in a crisis situation with its "education." I don't know whether or not you know anything, as you say, but just about anybody could come up with a better system than the one I see out there, destroyed by the unions.
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