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Author Topic: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 239005 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1460 on: December 14, 2018, 02:17:47 pm »

Not sure how you are using the term "Fanboy" here. Rørslett knows Nikon glass better than anyone I have ever come across, and does not succumb IMO to Nikon just because it is Nikon. He knows lenses very well, lenses of all kinds, not just Nikon. And there are IMO a LOT of subpar Nikon Lenses out there, especially in terms of their being well-corrected as in "APO" which is not a precise term. For him to speak that highly (as you have) of the new Z7 50mm S is enough for me to take notice. However, he does not particularly care for the Otus series, which I very much do.

Certainly, I was joking of course.

He is a world famous authority about lenses obviously.

There is an anti Nikon Z web warfare on-going, led by some Sony owners who can apparently not accept the possibility that the Z mount may enable the design of better lens and they tend to call fanboy anybody reporting such positive information about the Z lenses. I was just making a bit fun of them. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1461 on: December 14, 2018, 02:44:07 pm »

Certainly, I was joking of course.

He is a world famous authority about lenses obviously.

There is an anti Nikon Z web warfare on-going, led by some Sony owners who can apparently not accept the possibility that the Z mount may enable the design of better lens and they tend to call fanboy anybody reporting such positive information about the Z lenses. I was just making a bit fun of them. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

I get it now. I have been out of the loop for a while and have not paid attention to that riff. Nothing wrong with Sony, I had the A7R, A7S, A7R2 (twice), and A7R3... and no longer have any of them. Also had the Z1D. GFX, Pentax K1/K3 and so on. Gone. They all have qualities. However, the Nikon Z7 and D850 are the cameras I like most for my work, which is close-up/Macro nature photography.  And you can tell from the mounts (simple measurement) that the Z7 has great potential.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1462 on: December 14, 2018, 03:15:40 pm »

I get it now. I have been out of the loop for a while and have not paid attention to that riff. Nothing wrong with Sony, I had the A7R, A7S, A7R2 (twice), and A7R3... and no longer have any of them. Also had the Z1D. GFX, Pentax K1/K3 and so on. Gone. They all have qualities. However, the Nikon Z7 and D850 are the cameras I like most for my work, which is close-up/Macro nature photography.  And you can tell from the mounts (simple measurement) that the Z7 has great potential.
Boy, you really run through the camera equipment.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1463 on: December 14, 2018, 03:42:49 pm »

Jim Kasson, who tests lenses quite carefully, has just posted test images in which the 50mm Z lens pretty clearly beats the Sigma Art 50mm, even with the Z wide open and the Sigma stopped down to f1.8. The Art is certainly one of the new breed of "Super 50s", which includes the Sony Zeiss 50 f1.4 and 55 f1.8, as well as the Canon RF 50 f 1.2, and perhaps others. These are all a different (and much sharper) animal from the classic double Gauss 50mm lenses (most if not all Canon and Nikon DSLR 50s, for example). The "Super 50s" tend to have 10 or more elements, instead of 6-8 for a conventional 50mm lens, and to use aspheric elements, low-dispersion elements or both, which aren't involved in classic 50mm designs.

Jim Kasson's test shows that the Nikkor is not only a "Super 50", but even in the upper echelon of that already refined class - the Sigma is an excellent and well-respected lens that doesn't give up much, if anything, to any of the others. Since there's no way to get the most obvious "Super 50's" other than the Sigma onto the Z7 body (Sony to Z and Canon RF to Z adapters don't exist), a direct comparison with the Sony or Canon lenses is impossible... There is very little evidence that any of them are in a whole different class from the Sigma, though - one or more might be as good as the Z Nikkor (the Sony Zeiss 55mm f1.4 and the Canon RF 50mm f1.2 are likely candidates), but almost certainly none will outclass it (the Canon RF is a full stop faster, and most of the others are a half stop faster).

That leaves one ~50 mm lens that might truly be better than the little Nikkor - the mighty Zeiss Otus 55mm f1.4. At 2.5x the weight (before adding the FTZ adapter) and nearly 7x the price, the Otus would have no reason to exist if it can't beat all comers! We have an interesting situation where each FF mirrorless system has a great 50mm lens that is probably preferable to any 50mm DSLR lens except the Otus. There doesn't appear to be much to choose between the mirrorless "Super 50s" across systems - pick the Nikkor Z, the Sony Zeiss or the Canon RF by what fits your camera, but 50mm belongs to mirrorless...
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1464 on: December 14, 2018, 03:54:38 pm »

Boy, you really run through the camera equipment.

I test them out for my particular kind of work. But I only keep what is the best for what I do. My style is below:

https://michaelerlewine.smugmug.com/
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1465 on: December 14, 2018, 04:57:40 pm »

I get it now. I have been out of the loop for a while and have not paid attention to that riff. Nothing wrong with Sony, I had the A7R, A7S, A7R2 (twice), and A7R3... and no longer have any of them. Also had the Z1D. GFX, Pentax K1/K3 and so on. Gone. They all have qualities. However, the Nikon Z7 and D850 are the cameras I like most for my work, which is close-up/Macro nature photography.  And you can tell from the mounts (simple measurement) that the Z7 has great potential.

I totally agree that the Sony is excellent and the best in quite a few area, starting with AF. A great solution from a great company.

The Nikon fanboys appear to be able to see the value of Sony equipment, only the opposite isn’t true.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 05:05:54 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1466 on: December 14, 2018, 05:07:40 pm »

I totally agree that the Sony is excellent and the best in quite a few area, starting with AF. A great solution from a great company.

Cheers,
Bernard


I have been more impressed with Sony video cameras for many years. I have the Sony FS5 camcorder that is a very impressive camera with a small footprint. I am not that interested in their mirrorless, probably because I use manual focus and never autofocus.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 05:30:34 pm by Michael Erlewine »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1467 on: December 14, 2018, 05:44:58 pm »

I have been more impressed with Sony video cameras for many years. I have the Sony FS5 camcorder that is a very impressive camera with a small footprint. I am not that interested in their mirrorless, probably because I use manual focus and never autofocus.

Yes, indeed. It is all the more ironic that the Z6 is a significantly better video camera than the a7III or a7rIII.

Now I believe that the a7SIII should hopefully correct that.

Cheers,
Bernard

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1468 on: December 14, 2018, 05:49:15 pm »

Yes, indeed. It is all the more ironic that the Z6 is a significantly better video camera than the a7III or a7rIII.

Now I believe that the a7SIII should hopefully correct that.

Cheers,
Bernard

I don't use the mirrorless cameras for video. The Sony SF5 is another order of magnitude video camera (IMO), used with the Atomos Shogun Inferno..
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Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1469 on: December 14, 2018, 07:01:08 pm »

Video on mirrorless is about to get really interesting - between the new Panasonics, the A7sIII and the potential that Olympus might do something on their new model... If they're serious about 7.5 stops of stabilization, and that works in video, they have essentially eliminated the gimbal market! Even a 5 stop stabilized camera like a Z7 is impressively easier to hold than an older-style 2.5-3 stop stabilizer.

We may end up with a battle for bit rate between Panasonic and Sony, with Olympus a little behind, but well ahead in stabilization. Fuji and Nikon will end up with cameras that are a little behind the 2019 generation for video, but still impressive (e.g. as good or better than anything of the A7SII/GH5 generation), while very likely being better still cameras than the kings of motion. Canon will either have to admit that they're protecting the Cinema EOS line by keeping video features out of their still cameras OR they'll have to release something better... Either way, they're stuck - they either lose some mirrorless sales to a huge lag in video features, OR some Cinema EOS sales by competing with themselves!
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1470 on: December 14, 2018, 07:09:20 pm »

Video on mirrorless is about to get really interesting - between the new Panasonics, the A7sIII and the potential that Olympus might do something on their new model... If they're serious about 7.5 stops of stabilization, and that works in video, they have essentially eliminated the gimbal market! Even a 5 stop stabilized camera like a Z7 is impressively easier to hold than an older-style 2.5-3 stop stabilizer.

We may end up with a battle for bit rate between Panasonic and Sony, with Olympus a little behind, but well ahead in stabilization. Fuji and Nikon will end up with cameras that are a little behind the 2019 generation for video, but still impressive (e.g. as good or better than anything of the A7SII/GH5 generation), while very likely being better still cameras than the kings of motion. Canon will either have to admit that they're protecting the Cinema EOS line by keeping video features out of their still cameras OR they'll have to release something better... Either way, they're stuck - they either lose some mirrorless sales to a huge lag in video features, OR some Cinema EOS sales by competing with themselves!
I am a still photographer. I could not care less about video features. Fortunately, you can turn them off. Nevertheless, I know that professionals need video given the broadening demands of their clients.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1471 on: December 14, 2018, 07:44:12 pm »

Yep, the Nikon Z7 is a major stop forward with video. I can get 10-bit 4k exported to my Atomos Shogun Inferno full-frame. No other mirrorless I know of can do that or DSLR either.

The Z7 has minor flaws, but it is a major hit with me. If they would add pixel-shift in firmware, it would be incredible. As a still camera, I still use the D850 for a lot of work, but the Z7 pretty much owns my Cambo Actus Mini and Actus XL-35 right now. Plus, I am gearing up for and have ordered shorter adapters (Leica, M42, etc.) to field the many exotic lenses that I have and use.

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SrMi

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1472 on: December 15, 2018, 01:53:14 am »

Video on mirrorless is about to get really interesting - between the new Panasonics, the A7sIII and the potential that Olympus might do something on their new model... If they're serious about 7.5 stops of stabilization, and that works in video, they have essentially eliminated the gimbal market! Even a 5 stop stabilized camera like a Z7 is impressively easier to hold than an older-style 2.5-3 stop stabilizer.
<snip>

Olympus Says Earth’s Rotation Limits Image Stabilization to 6.5 Stops Max.
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kpz

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1473 on: December 15, 2018, 02:16:04 am »

Olympus Says Earth’s Rotation Limits Image Stabilization to 6.5 Stops Max.

I would really love to see the math involved here. Do you have a link?
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johnvanatta

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1474 on: December 15, 2018, 04:30:29 am »

I liked Camera Labs' review of the 50 S. The LOCA comparison with the Otus 55mm is particularly impressive. A welcome trend from Nikon's latest lenses.
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-50mm-f1-8s-review
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1475 on: December 15, 2018, 09:28:33 am »

I liked Camera Labs' review of the 50 S. The LOCA comparison with the Otus 55mm is particularly impressive. A welcome trend from Nikon's latest lenses.
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-50mm-f1-8s-review

The way I am starting to see this is that if the 50mm S Nikon Z7 lens is as good as it is for the relatively low price it costs and the forthcoming new NOCT will be the stellar lens it looks to be, then IMO the writing is on the wall. The future belongs to a new series of lenses for the Z mount. I have scores of very fine and expensive lenses and I probably should sell some of them now since if those new Nikon Z native lenses are as good as my guess they will be, even the Otus series of which I have all of them will be in a fire sale.

For example: Should I sell my current NOCT Nikkor, which is a great copy NOW to help pay for the forthcoming one?
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Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1476 on: December 15, 2018, 09:37:40 am »

I wondered about precisely the piece of Olympus math somebody pointed out... The 6.5 stops due to the rotation of the Earth was in an interview somewhere when the E-M1 mk II came out, while the 7.5 stop number is in a more recent link. Unless Olympus has figured out how to slow down the Earth's rotation (without causing havoc with tide changes), something's wrong. I wonder if the rotation of the Earth has more of an effect at longer distances, and the 7.5 stops has a caveat about subject distance?
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BJL

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1477 on: December 15, 2018, 11:24:30 am »

Olympus Says Earth’s Rotation Limits Image Stabilization to 6.5 Stops Max.
If a camera has GPS and compass (like phones do), it could correct for that rotation ...
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SrMi

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1478 on: December 15, 2018, 11:52:52 am »

I wondered about precisely the piece of Olympus math somebody pointed out... The 6.5 stops due to the rotation of the Earth was in an interview somewhere when the E-M1 mk II came out, while the 7.5 stop number is in a more recent link. Unless Olympus has figured out how to slow down the Earth's rotation (without causing havoc with tide changes), something's wrong. I wonder if the rotation of the Earth has more of an effect at longer distances, and the 7.5 stops has a caveat about subject distance?

Would love to see the link to the article about 7.5 stops. Thanks.
P.S.: Did a search on Google, could not find it.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1479 on: December 15, 2018, 11:56:59 am »

Would love to see the link to the article about 7.5 stops. Thanks.
P.S.: Did a search on Google, could not find it.
Does it really matter if it is 6.5 or 7.5 stops?
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