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Author Topic: So where is the new Phase One body  (Read 42940 times)

eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 11:07:14 pm »

I believe that new stand alone MF camera body sales are so low, that no maker will invest in other than improving bits of it...  Maybe the major mount for future Phamiya backs will be the Hasselblad H mount with... C645 being second and M645 third...

Development costs are falling very fast - a mirrorless shutterless body is just a box with a lens mount and a back mount ...the smarts can be in the back.

Edmund
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synn

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2015, 03:46:37 am »


Taking pictures is part of Hassy's DNA, but the practice of taking the shot is simply *not* part of Phase One's DNA. Phase is a back company.


I guess you forgot about these guys. I don't blame you, they have only been around for 75 years or so.

I really do wonder why you have this hobby of stirring the shitpot every few weeks. You clearly have no intention of getting a phase camera, while those who own it either work around the limitations or have moved to other camera bodies/ rival platforms that satisfy their needs. While Phase clearly has a problem to solve, It is pathetically hilarious that the loudest critics like you or your mancrush FredBGG are also the ones who clearly don't intend to give Phase any of your cash, even if they built a Jesuscam that can cure cancer.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 03:50:38 am by synn »
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voidshatter

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2015, 03:51:23 am »

PS. It is possible to do very fast AF with a liveview sensor with no phase-contrast pixels, provided one characterises the lenses. This is the "depth from defocus" method which is used by the Panasonic GH4. According to Panasonic, the $1K GH4 with no dedicated focus sensors is beaten  in focus speed only by the ... Nikon D4s. A second place which our japanese friends at Panasonic accept with a humble smile :)
 

Your posts are really entertaining!  ;D

As a side note, perhaps the AF motor in the Phase One lenses does not work well with contrast detection AF. This has been true for the Nikon lenses - Live View AF is awfully slow for the D4S.
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eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2015, 07:44:04 am »

I guess you forgot about these guys. I don't blame you, they have only been around for 75 years or so.

I really do wonder why you have this hobby of stirring the shitpot every few weeks. You clearly have no intention of getting a phase camera, while those who own it either work around the limitations or have moved to other camera bodies/ rival platforms that satisfy their needs. While Phase clearly has a problem to solve, It is pathetically hilarious that the loudest critics like you or your mancrush FredBGG are also the ones who clearly don't intend to give Phase any of your cash, even if they built a Jesuscam that can cure cancer.


Synn, there is the official Phase One forum, which is very helpful and professionally run and gets you fast answers to precise questions about Phase hardware or software — let's not forget that C1 is much used, and arguably the world's best Raw processing software—  and then there is this place which is a brand-agnostic venue, ever so rowdy, with unqualified posters.

Here, neither ownership nor portofolio are required for entrance. So havoc, mayhem, loud opinions, and fools are to be expected, and fun can be had :)

BTW I like your post, it reminds some of us of the good old days at the RG forum ...

Now, as we were speaking of obsolete hardware still taking good pictures, I have an old Hasselblad SWC (original silver version) which I think I will sooner or later get a back for - anyone here have an opinion about that camera when used with a digiback? I'm hesitating between an old Phase back and an old  Hasselblad back with the interchangeable mount, or even the occasional 16 megapixel CFV that pops up for sale.
 
Edmund

« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 08:40:01 am by eronald »
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synn

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2015, 07:51:40 am »

and then there is this place which is ever so rowdy, with unqualified posters.


Apart from this little bit of self awareness that you've demonstrated, that post was a masterstroke at deflection.
You should conduct workshops for politicians.
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eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 08:04:27 am »

Your posts are really entertaining!  ;D

As a side note, perhaps the AF motor in the Phase One lenses does not work well with contrast detection AF. This has been true for the Nikon lenses - Live View AF is awfully slow for the D4S.

Voidshatter,

You may be right about lenses needing some specific design features to work well with contrast-detect AF, but I wonder if depth-from-defocus isn't closer to phase contrast in execution - ie jump the lens to a precalculated position, maybe doing one or two stops for intermediate measurements.    I do wonder why only Panasonic are *officially* doing this.

Maybe someone here knows about AF and practical lens design, and can inform this discusson?  

Of course if one has multi-axis  shift mechanism for the sensor, like the Sony A7II, one can probably do not only multi-shot but also cute things like touchscreen tilt -AF with either focus method ... or even use sensor shift to real-time refocus a prefocused manual-focus lens if the subject has moved or the focus was imprecise.

It's nice to see innovation, but it sure takes a long time to get to MF.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 08:12:36 am by eronald »
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voidshatter

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2015, 09:48:02 am »

I can totally understand your ideas and I agree that a fast contrast AF activated by touch-screen (e.g. the micro four thirds cameras) would be a game changer for capturing the decisive moments. Unfortunately as you said technology lag more for cameras with bigger sensors.
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sgilbert

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2015, 11:50:10 am »

"The smarts can be in the back?"  Is that part of the planned eronald DB project?

A dumb body is already available, from ALPA, Arca, Cambo, and others.  With the right lenses and the eronald back, there'd be no need for a new Phase camera. 


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eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 07:12:17 pm »

My project died, the industrial backer pulled out.
But Brian now has a project, which I am sure will be exactly as good as it's open source.

I don't think though that he has a movable sensor design for focus.

Edmund

"The smarts can be in the back?"  Is that part of the planned eronald DB project?

A dumb body is already available, from ALPA, Arca, Cambo, and others.  With the right lenses and the eronald back, there'd be no need for a new Phase camera. 

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Joe Towner

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2015, 11:43:28 pm »

I think the DF/DF+ could use some love, and the vendors I've chatted with always mention a new body was in development.  Currently Hassy has TrueFocus, and the Pentax has both lots of af points and focus peaking in live view, so there is one thing they could work out.  Plus, anything in the af micro-adjustment tuning realm would be welcomed.  I have always thought that a back that could pair with the body via bluetooth would be really slick - I mean, take the on body menu down to the 4 user selected options as selected via the link to the back or a phone/tablet.

It's tough to be in a situation where you have lots of lenses and backs out there, and everything legacy has to work, and yet you want to push forward.

Oh, and make a VGrip without the Air function, and put a hot shoe up top for speedlight use :)
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synn

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2015, 04:57:09 am »

My project died, the industrial backer pulled out.

That's what happens when one presents vaporware, wishful thinking and vitriol as a businessplan to serious investers.
And yet, he thinks he can teach Phase to do their daily job better.  :D

Good thing that Brian seems more level headed and has a more realistic approach to differentiate his offering in the market. I wish him all the best and look forward to his solution.
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eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2015, 07:40:28 am »

Good thing that Brian seems more level headed and has a more realistic approach to differentiate his offering in the market. I wish him all the best and look forward to his solution.

Actually, my industrial partner were not mainly interested at all in a back, they were interested in exploring the CMOS technology for a different reason, and they dropped out because they unexpectedly got some contracts  based on a different product line, which made them too busy. While they were hesitating, and not ordering the dev kits,  I lost the time I had available for the fulltime hacking needed to get the project started. Next time I do a project I will buy all the gear myself,  even if I need to sell a camera to do it, and not wait for anybody, I made the mistake here of trying to invest as little as possible. I hope Brian won't be dependent on anyone else.


Edmund
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 07:53:58 am by eronald »
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ciccio

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2015, 12:23:57 pm »

new phase body will come with the new full frame back...2 quarter 2016 , all together for a new kit .best.
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Theodoros

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2015, 12:48:46 pm »

new phase body will come with the new full frame back...2 quarter 2016 , all together for a new kit .best.

Next "Apollon" launch will be on 2018 for Jupiter, crowed will be humans and robots... best.

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eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2015, 02:00:26 pm »

new phase body will come with the new full frame back...2 quarter 2016 , all together for a new kit .best.

Yes, a  Photokina 2016 launch for an entirely new mirrorless system, possibly with a more modern sensor technology sounds quite feasible, but I would still expect a prelaunch of an IQ270 containing a larger sensor before the end of this year: Canon are now already at 50MP with their SLRs, and it is clear that Nikon and Sony will follow. High MP numbers are an important marketing talking point.  A larger sensor similar to the existing one would conserve the excellent DR of the IQ250 while decreasing the crop factor, and require little new software development, for the back firmware or for Raw conversion: It's a drop in.  

Nothing like a good rumor and some speculation in the absence of ground truth.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 02:07:03 pm by eronald »
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Theodoros

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2015, 02:18:57 pm »

Yes, a  Photokina 2016 launch for an entirely new mirrorless system, possibly with a more modern sensor technology sounds quite feasible, but I would still expect a prelaunch of an IQ270 containing a larger sensor before the end of this year: Canon are now already at 50MP with their SLRs, and it is clear that Nikon and Sony will follow. High MP numbers are an important marketing talking point.  A larger sensor similar to the existing one would conserve the excellent DR of the IQ250 while decreasing the crop factor, and require little new software development, for the back firmware or for Raw conversion: It's a drop in.  

Nothing like a good rumor and some speculation in the absence of ground truth.

Edmund

Actually, I believe that the ΙQ 270 will be of 72.2345 mp....
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Doug Peterson

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2015, 04:21:44 pm »

I do wonder, Doug and Steve have told us so often now that there is a new Phase body for the "open" Phase One system just around the corner and so we billionaires should refrain from buying  Inferior Pentax or Hopeless Hassy. So where is this new Premium Phase body which is always "going to be released soon"?

I don't recall saying anything like this.

I have said that Phase One considers the development of a body every bit as bad-ass as their IQ/IQ2 generation of backs to be their highest priority. I stand by that now more than ever.

Theodoros

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2015, 04:31:04 pm »

I don't recall saying anything like this.

I have said that Phase One considers the development of a body every bit as bad-ass as their IQ/IQ2 generation of backs to be their highest priority. I stand by that now more than ever.

Sure they do... (consider one). What about Mamiya? ...do they "consider" one too?
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eronald

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2015, 03:11:13 am »

I have said that Phase One considers the development of a body every bit as bad-ass as their IQ/IQ2 generation of backs to be their highest priority. I stand by that now more than ever.

Hmm, I'm not sure that saying "Sweetheart, you're every bit as beautiful as I am", increases one's chances of staying married :)

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 07:54:17 pm by eronald »
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synn

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Re: So where is the new Phase One body
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2015, 03:56:49 am »

Hmm, I'm not sure that saying "Sweetheart, you're as beautiful as I am", increases one's chances of staying married :)

Edmund

Great analogy. If only you were actually married to the said sweetheart in the first place.
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