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Author Topic: Using Facebook and Twitter to promote work: losing control over ownership  (Read 25622 times)

marimagen

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I need some advice about promoting my work. I have a website and a blog, but it seems that having a facebook page and/or a twitter account is an absolute must. The problem I have with these social medias is that everything that one publishes belongs to them if you read the fine print. Supposedly one retains the copyright, but they can do whatever they want with the content one publishes.

For example, here are the Twitter's terms word for word: "You retain your rights to any Content you submit, post or display on or through the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Services, you grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, reproduce, process, adapt, modify, publish, transmit, display and distribute such Content in any and all media or distribution methods (now known or later developed)."

What do you guys do to promote your work?

Thanks in advance,
Marie
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jferrari

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Just use social media to drive viewers to your website or plaster any images with very large watermarks.    - Jim
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Nothing changes until something changes.

Hans Kruse

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I need some advice about promoting my work. I have a website and a blog, but it seems that having a facebook page and/or a twitter account is an absolute must. The problem I have with these social medias is that everything that one publishes belongs to them if you read the fine print. Supposedly one retains the copyright, but they can do whatever they want with the content one publishes.

For example, here are the Twitter's terms word for word: "You retain your rights to any Content you submit, post or display on or through the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Services, you grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, reproduce, process, adapt, modify, publish, transmit, display and distribute such Content in any and all media or distribution methods (now known or later developed)."

What do you guys do to promote your work?

Thanks in advance,
Marie

Yes, I know what you are saying, but I have never seen Facebook or Twitter actively selling pictures from what you have posted. This is not their intent. I believe that their intent is to market their service and one of your pictures might be visible in one ad and that this is the purpose. For me this is fine. I hope you can see that if Facebook really started selling your pictures, people would go away in droves. This would work really against them and to what purpose? Small websize pictures are almost worthless today anyway.

I publish on Facebook at max. 1600x1200 and with a small watermark in the lower right corner. I think big watermarks are just ugly and will work against you. I don't see any serious photographer do that today. The reason I make 1600x1200 is so that they look good on today's high rez displays in full screen mode.

I have been notified a few times about somebody taking the watermark out and posting it as their own and evne have won an online competition using the picture. I don't care too much about that. It is much more important to market what I do and for that Facebook, Google+ and 500px seems to me the best sites. My Facebook postings also go out on Twitter and I post on Flickr as well. If you post good pictures in Flickr you can get a lot of views.

I have been features in a number of magazines and they all found me on 500px...just a thought. But they would only do that if you publish great content and big watermarks is not the way to go.

So goahead :) But, you do not give a link to your website or mention what you work is really about and why you think Facebook would be good for your business.

louoates

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Whatever image you post anywhere can be stolen quite easily despite watermarks. If you are on stock photo sites your work will definitely be stolen often, many times still bearing the stock photo watermark. I agree with Hans in that promoting your work should take precedence over fear of theft. I disagree with Hans about not being concerned about Twitter and others attempting to legally obtain rights to your image without compensation.  They may not be actively using that legal right now but next week they may do just that.
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Hans Kruse

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Whatever image you post anywhere can be stolen quite easily despite watermarks. If you are on stock photo sites your work will definitely be stolen often, many times still bearing the stock photo watermark. I agree with Hans in that promoting your work should take precedence over fear of theft. I disagree with Hans about not being concerned about Twitter and others attempting to legally obtain rights to your image without compensation.  They may not be actively using that legal right now but next week they may do just that.

So what business model is it that would support Facebook start to sell pictures from their customers? Why would this even make sense? I don't see it, but I'm curious about why you would see this as a threat.

marimagen

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Thanks Jim, I guess it's the easiest way, just placing content that points to my website and blog.
Like Lou, I have mixed feelings about Facebook. It's not so much that they are going to sell my photos, but that some ad company working with them, for instance, can use them for their own purposes. As to selling pictures, I think I remember some issues with Flickr. So the bottom line for me is that I want to keep the risk level at a minimum, because I wouldn't be happy if my work were used by other people to make money. Of course, once photos are published, there is no way one can control what's happening to them. I agree with Hans about the watermark. Too big is counterproductive. And watermarks, digimarks, etc., are no guarantee against theft. With digimark (which I use), you can track your photos, but at the end of the day, if people steal your work there is nothing you can do about it.
By the way Hans, here is a link to my blog: http://bcnartist.com/
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Hans Kruse

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Thanks Jim, I guess it's the easiest way, just placing content that points to my website and blog.
Like Lou, I have mixed feelings about Facebook. It's not so much that they are going to sell my photos, but that some ad company working with them, for instance, can use them for their own purposes. As to selling pictures, I think I remember some issues with Flickr. So the bottom line for me is that I want to keep the risk level at a minimum, because I wouldn't be happy if my work were used by other people to make money. Of course, once photos are published, there is no way one can control what's happening to them. I agree with Hans about the watermark. Too big is counterproductive. And watermarks, digimarks, etc., are no guarantee against theft. With digimark (which I use), you can track your photos, but at the end of the day, if people steal your work there is nothing you can do about it.
By the way Hans, here is a link to my blog: http://bcnartist.com/

I really think you are overdoing any risk or concern. You could with no risk post the pictures you have on your blog and website on Facebook. If you only post text with embedded links not many people will see it. At least that is my experience. If you go the Facebook route then create a page and post pictures on the page. But also you need to realize that you won't get a lot of likes on your pages unless you post something that people want to see and that you regularly post something. You decide which resolution to upload. If want to both show something and minimize risk then upload a low resolution pictures. The bonus from this far outweighs the risks, I can tell you. My Facebook page is in my signature.

marimagen

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Thank you Hans for your patience. OK I understand. Then it means that the same info has to be published on different platforms (website, blog, FB, 500px, etc.). What a bore! Well if that's the way to go...
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Hans Kruse

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Thank you Hans for your patience. OK I understand. Then it means that the same info has to be published on different platforms (website, blog, FB, 500px, etc.). What a bore! Well if that's the way to go...

I'm sorry, but with this attitude I would not recommend to do so ;) You need to find out what you want to achieve and which platform is the best and how much effort you want to put into it. You also need to understand how different platforms work. Facebook will like to get paid adds from you and if you don't then they will limit the audience of how many you will reach, but this is also influenced on how many of your followers that like  what you post.

The essence is that there is no free lunch, as they say :)

Iluvmycam

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I use a variety of web platforms. Tumblr, Wordpress, Google and some others.

I'd be more worried about your pix dying with you and them not having an afterlife than you worrying about someone using them for a FB pix.

I uploaded 250 hi res photos of mine to Wiki Commons. I would not license for commercial use, I could only license for educational / editorial use. Most of them were in museum collections...they deleted them all. If they could not have commercial rights they were worthless for educational use to them.

Archive and spread your work around all you can now...or greedily hold on to them. It is your choice.

"Looking at photographs, like taking them, can be joyful, sensuous pleasure. Looking at photographs of quality can only increase that pleasure." Pete Turner

 "A photograph that has not been shared or at least printed is almost an unexistent photograph, is almost an untaken picture." Sergio Garibay

Generic photos like the stuff you forum photogs do have nil value unless they are very, very special...like newsworthy. Or you have a client that will hire you for a project. There is no shortage of smoky water, burning steel wool and star trails. Sorry, but that is how it is.

Do we need any more flower pix??

https://www.flickr.com/groups/florus/

1-1/4 million+   photos just in this one pool. Tens of millions others out there.

Pretty pix are a dime a dozen...or even free.

http://www.amazon.com/Sunrise-around-world-Photo-Gallery-ebook/dp/B00ROCZ2JG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_9?ie=UTF8&refRID=16FNDDPK30NZ1MN5T7FJ

http://www.amazon.com/Spectacular-Mountain-Lakes-Photo-Gallery-ebook/dp/B00QU1H3NK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0GHX6N388YGCDGWS8V3J

Unless your are someone VERY, VERY special in the talent pool or lucky to have connections to make your photo of a tricycle worth half a million or your sunset worth 6 million...just have fun and press the button.


« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 03:42:25 pm by Iluvmycam »
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marimagen

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 ;D OK get it. Thanks for your input Hans, I'll try to devise a strategy. And thank you too ILMC, I want my pixs to thrive in afterlife, loved the quotes!
Marie
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Deardorff

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"I have never seen Facebook or Twitter actively selling pictures from what you have posted. This is not their intent."
-----------------

Maybe not now, but they certainly take the right to use pictures of your kids in Condom and Family Planning ads in the future, don't they?

Remember when Getty was telling everyone how good they were going to be to their photographers, what a good deal they would get?

Same thing with Facebook and similar - the camels nose under the tent.
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Gel

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Whenever I use FB or Twitter I always hit my images up with a watermark in the bottom right corner.
I also accept that anything on the internet is downloadable and open to be abused. But hey, that's business.

The other side is that you don't publish anything to attract attention to yourself and this will entail you finding another source of publicity.
In all the years there's been 'warnings' about FB and twitter I'vew not seen a single incidence where this actually became a reality apart from Instagram's change of policy (which was quickly reversed).

There are more important things to worry about. Such as the 4000 clean wedding images on my website. If anyone was going to pinch or re sell and image they'd be doing it from there. Not FB or Twitter.

Justinr

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but it seems that having a facebook page and/or a twitter account is an absolute must.

Is it?

I am on neither and am not shy of saying so and explaining why, yet I'm not at all short of things to do just at the moment. TBH, I think there are a good number of people involved with Facebook because they they are told that they have to be, but would rather not be. Be brave, go tell social media where to put its head and concentrate on selling your website rather than expecting Google to tell people about it, a good start might be putting a link to it on here.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 05:05:14 am by Justinr »
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marimagen

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 :) I thought I had already included a link to my blog, here it is again, anyway:
http://bcnartist.com/en/
I have been busy localizing it, so I haven't had time to concentrate on this FB business.
As you can see, I'm more into "digital art" than photography.
Marie
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OneSparrow

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Facebook is not for every photographer, and anyone starting out with it now missed the glory days when page likes were almost free.  Now they will cost you, for the most part.  But if you do it, you have to swallow some of your concern for image theft - but in the scheme of things, that is no big deal - and it one way that some photographers make additional income (by occasionally being successful at going after the perpetrators).

Discrete watermarks are good, keep images size to less that 1200 pixels long dimension. 

One of the things I find it useful for is to find which of our images images are more appealing to viewers, as I am often not the best judge of what may sell.
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marimagen

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You're right, I had a show last month and the one most people loved was the one I liked less. It's just impossible to tell off-hand which picture will be a good seller!
Marie
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Deardorff

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https://asmp.org/fb-tos#.VTeq4JV0z9I

Not worth posting your images there.
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SecondFocus

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https://asmp.org/fb-tos#.VTeq4JV0z9I

Not worth posting your images there.

That ASMP article looks like it is from 2013. If so it is way out of date. It looks like I have been on Facebook since 2008. I post with photos daily. I have seen discussions like this one many many times over. Facebook has yet to use one of my photos to advertise and I do not recall any big case reported where that has happened. I would guess that since this discussion was first started on March 11th I have received 10 -15 shoot requests or inquiries of one type or another from individuals, magazines etc. I can say that Facebook generates a very substantial amount of my business.

I have also been blogging consistently, mostly daily since 2005. I am on Blogger, Wordpress, Tumblr, Instagram, Twitter, Linkedin and Google+. I would say that all of my business hinges successfully around Social Media.

Do I have infringements? Oh yes. I do DMCA Takedown Orders somewhat often. Every now and then there is an attorney letter that goes out and one came right up to a lawsuit being filed.

Do I worry about Facebook somehow using a photo of mine for some commercial use? No. Have I lost my identity and been besieged by advertisers? No.

Will Facebook or Social Media make money for you? Maybe. I can only say that it sure works for me. And no I am not selling a book, course, outline, consulting service or anything else about Social Media. Or anything else. I am just a photographer.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 12:22:56 am by SecondFocus »
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Ian L. Sitren
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ian_t

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I extensively use FB to promote my photography business. A couple of things I've learned.
You have to spend money, not a lot, but some. This elevates you above the 99.9% of people using it to promote for free. (Free won't won't work unless you are Annie Leibovitz or someone like that.) You have to post often, but not too often, that will turn people off. I probably post 10 or 12 items a week and boost them with a few bucks, to either people following my page, or to a custom target.
You have to get critical mass of followers. I've been in these forums where people complain that their FB page doesn't do anything for them. When I check they have maybe 200 'Likes'. This isn't going to do anything. For me, once I reached the 25,000 mark I started to get business from FB. Now I have over 50,000 and I get tons of queries for work through the page. It's also a nice way to highlight work as most of clients like to see their images with hundreds or even thousands of 'Likes'. So it reinforces my existing clients as well as finding new ones.
It's not going to work for everyone, but for my type of candid portraiture biz, is has been amazing. I reckon there are three or four years of usefulness left in FB before it has run its course.

https://www.facebook.com/IanTaylorPhotography
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