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Author Topic: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?  (Read 52412 times)

dwswager

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2015, 03:17:28 pm »

I shoot a lot with the 5D III and the Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II lens and I don't a lens that nice for the D810.

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by nice.  Yes the AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G is old and exhibits more CA than the Canon, but it is sharper.  And while rumors of a VR version of the 24-70mm f/2.8 has been a mainstay for the last 4 years, I think we might actually get a new one.
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2015, 03:44:31 pm »

He may have missed a word, but I think he is saying that he likes the Canon more than the compared Nikon, as he compares them side by side in the work he has encountered.


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adias

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2015, 05:46:58 pm »

Well, four months before this camera ships in half a year, you'll be able to buy a Sony 50 megapixel camera with much better dynamic range at half the price. And EFCS and no flappy mirror to destroy sharpness, and the ability to critically focus in the viewfinder (needed with a 50MP camera!)

So, that's basically why.



Two things:

However good the Sony sensor is, I much prefer the look of the Canon CMOS RAW output. To my eyes there's something plasticky in the Sony output and even my old 5D sensor looks far more real.

The other thing with the Sony mirrorless camera is the EVF. Nothing beats an optical viewfinder.
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dwswager

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2015, 05:56:52 pm »

Two things:

However good the Sony sensor is, I much prefer the look of the Canon CMOS RAW output. To my eyes there's something plasticky in the Sony output and even my old 5D sensor looks far more real.

The other thing with the Sony mirrorless camera is the EVF. Nothing beats an optical viewfinder.


And if you use a green magic marker on the outside rim of your CD it makes it sound more like vinyl. 
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NancyP

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2015, 08:01:34 pm »

I still prefer an optical viewfinder for a lot of shooting, but obviously this doesn't really apply to on-tripod non-action shooting, because I focus manually on Live View magnified 10X (like most people do).
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adias

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2015, 10:50:37 pm »

And if you use a green magic marker on the outside rim of your CD it makes it sound more like vinyl. 

I rarely post here but I see that also at LuLa gratuitous sarcasm and irrelevance is well and alive.
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dwswager

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2015, 11:17:02 pm »

I rarely post here but I see that also at LuLa gratuitous sarcasm and irrelevance is well and alive.

Everyone gets their own opinion and preferences.  Some like this while others that.  But to say that the output of the Sony sensors look 'plasticky' is so arbitrary as to be useless.  About which camera(s) are you refering?  What does 'plasticky' mean?
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Steve Weldon

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2015, 11:22:37 pm »

I rarely post here but I see that also at LuLa gratuitous sarcasm and irrelevance is well and alive.
Yep, and those are not the only negative traits.

We're nearly six months away from the first of us getting a new R/S camera in our hands, yet once more the judge and jury have spoken and the experts have it figured out.  At last it's not trees we're wasting.

The DR specs haven't been released, all cameras and software are still pre-production, and I doubt even Canon knows what the final specs will be.  Besides, there was a single almost off-hand comment about what we could expect.  Any chance the question was taken out of context, or the answer?  Perhaps the person being questioned and doesn't know themselves and is just playing it safe by saying it will be like the current model, as in 'at least as good as the', but we still don't know.

Those of you who have been around awhile will surely remember the same discussions about DR and megapixels being thrown around when they announced the 1ds2.. "this is only for landscape and studio photographers, no one else needs that many pixels, yada yada yada" and a year later?  It was a great wedding camera, some were using it for sports (with patience), and many other purposes.  Heck, today smart phones have 16mp..  And the "how man megapixels does it take to make an 8x10" discussions were raging.. everyone forgetting some of us had 10x12 foot images and even billboards printed from the 2.7mp D2h..

Relax guys.. wait and see what the final specs and reviews reveal.  No one knows better than Canon what's needed to be a success.. especially after such a long hiatus from being the market leader.  Slow down..

I'm still shooting my old 1ds2 (gotta get my moneys worth out of it..) and 5d2 (and from that one too..) and don't really "need" anything more.  If I had to pick where I'd get the most gains, I'd say from the recently released 11-22mm lens.. provided it's a winner.  But I'm not going to lose a minutes sleep thinking about much less debating in a forum if it will be..  Think about how all the other great improvements will impact your photography style..
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 11:24:21 pm by Steve Weldon »
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BAB

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2015, 11:40:04 pm »

A new canon body or Sony with a few lenes is a small investment compared to buying a leica kit. I don't see where all the deliberation is any big deal if your really using the tool to make money it's much easier to justify buying a Sony or canon system and if you don't like it in six weeks and want to dump it for half of what you paid you still won't lose what you would on one leica lens? Which brings me to the question of why doesn't leica go the distance or at least meet the technology curve half way? They announced the new S in the early fourth quarter last year and its proposed to be a update to a existing three year old system!
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Hans Kruse

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2015, 12:28:42 am »

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by nice.  Yes the AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G is old and exhibits more CA than the Canon, but it is sharper.  And while rumors of a VR version of the 24-70mm f/2.8 has been a mainstay for the last 4 years, I think we might actually get a new one.

By nice, surprise :), I meant that it is very good optics and very sharp across the frame. I have tried two Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8 on my D800E and I was not impressed. It is very sharp in the center, but not in the boundaries of the frame, so I never bought one. I think Nikon should update it like Canon did from their old one to the new mkII. If they do, I will buy one.

CptZar

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2015, 02:13:24 am »

Yep, and those are not the only negative traits.

We're nearly six months away from the first of us getting a new R/S camera in our hands, yet once more the judge and jury have spoken and the experts have it figured out.  At last it's not trees we're wasting.

The DR specs haven't been released, all cameras and software are still pre-production, and I doubt even Canon knows what the final specs will be.  Besides, there was a single almost off-hand comment about what we could expect.  Any chance the question was taken out of context, or the answer?  Perhaps the person being questioned and doesn't know themselves and is just playing it safe by saying it will be like the current model, as in 'at least as good as the', but we still don't know.

Those of you who have been around awhile will surely remember the same discussions about DR and megapixels being thrown around when they announced the 1ds2.. "this is only for landscape and studio photographers, no one else needs that many pixels, yada yada yada" and a year later?  It was a great wedding camera, some were using it for sports (with patience), and many other purposes.  Heck, today smart phones have 16mp..  And the "how man megapixels does it take to make an 8x10" discussions were raging.. everyone forgetting some of us had 10x12 foot images and even billboards printed from the 2.7mp D2h..

Relax guys.. wait and see what the final specs and reviews reveal.  No one knows better than Canon what's needed to be a success.. especially after such a long hiatus from being the market leader.  Slow down..

I'm still shooting my old 1ds2 (gotta get my moneys worth out of it..) and 5d2 (and from that one too..) and don't really "need" anything more.  If I had to pick where I'd get the most gains, I'd say from the recently released 11-22mm lens.. provided it's a winner.  But I'm not going to lose a minutes sleep thinking about much less debating in a forum if it will be..  Think about how all the other great improvements will impact your photography style..

Canon released the info, that "Dynamic range is equivalent to the 5DIII"

http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm

BernardLanguillier

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2015, 03:09:06 am »

today I decided to sell my Leica S2.I think the offer Canon allows us is phenomenal.

Frankly, you can't be for real.

I am the first to agree that the negative comments about the new Canon are idiotic since nobody has shot with the camera and we don't have any objective measurement of the sensor performance, but I just cannot believe any real photographer would decide to sell a camera as wonderful as the Leica S2 based on info posted on a website.

Cheers,
Bernard

Steve Weldon

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2015, 03:24:13 am »

Canon released the info, that "Dynamic range is equivalent to the 5DIII"

http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm

In your linked reference he actually said "He basically said we should not expect any significant improvements compared to the 5D Mark III,"   

He DID NOT state it was equivalent.  He did not state an actual number we could reference.  He doesn't know the number because the camera is still months out from production.  What he did say was don't expect big changes.. or "significant" changes.  Just as vague as the DPR information.  What's significant to you? Or me?  Or Canon?  I have no way of knowing.  What I won't do is read something into this he didn't say or what I want it to say.   There is plenty of time to find out.

No matter how you look at it, this is an important release.  I'm sure there's even more to come.
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CptZar

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2015, 04:10:41 am »

In your linked reference he actually said "He basically said we should not expect any significant improvements compared to the 5D Mark III,"  

He DID NOT state it was equivalent.  He did not state an actual number we could reference.  He doesn't know the number because the camera is still months out from production.  What he did say was don't expect big changes.. or "significant" changes.  Just as vague as the DPR information.  What's significant to you? Or me?  Or Canon?  I have no way of knowing.  What I won't do is read something into this he didn't say or what I want it to say.   There is plenty of time to find out.

No matter how you look at it, this is an important release.  I'm sure there's even more to come.

Please take the time and watch the video. At about 02:00 Min he says: "The Dynamic Range is gonna be equivalent to the 5D Mark III". Now that is an official Canon Statement.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 04:23:09 am by CptZar »
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bokehcambodia

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2015, 05:39:14 am »

Waited for a higher-res Canon after not upgrading to the MKIII; finally in peace with abandoning Canon after 15yrs;
DR at MKIII level, no EVF options, no headphone jack, no RAW histogram, not much innovation at all in a very competitive market place right now;
the usual old Canon climbing up the spec ladder with each release one or two specs at a time;

Waiting for the first "rantatorial" from Michael on this camera and Canon  ;D

torger

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2015, 06:02:52 am »

As far as I understand the negativity rotate around one aspect -- dynamic range, the other things are just minor. This is a 12 stop camera, probably a good one without banding issues like the 7DII (remains to be seen though), but people at the forums really really wanted a 14 stop camera.

The number one favourite Nikon/Sony vs Canon bashing attack point has been DR for a few years now, and for every new release Canon supporters have hoped that Canon would be able to respond, but no. They can't. Today they have the last place in the DR race, even less known players like Samsung have broken the 12 stop limit. So I understand that the there is some major disappointment going on.

Then if 14 stops rather than 12 is really going to make a big difference to your photography depends on your shooting style. As some say they blend 90% with 12 stop and 10% with 14 stop, and then it's a real difference. I use a 12 stop camera, and I don't feel that limited by it, I use grads from time to time, but my shooting style involves lots or overcast skies, sun is rarely in the frame etc I tonemap relatively rarely. Other landscape photography styles are focused around high DR subjects and various tonemapping techniques and then those 2 extra stops does make a difference.
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robertDthomas

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2015, 07:36:02 am »

Looking at your website your images are stunning.  I think you could get good results with your technique using an old Kodak Brownie Starflash. ;D
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2015, 08:10:37 am »

+1

Erik

As far as I understand the negativity rotate around one aspect -- dynamic range, the other things are just minor. This is a 12 stop camera, probably a good one without banding issues like the 7DII (remains to be seen though), but people at the forums really really wanted a 14 stop camera.

The number one favourite Nikon/Sony vs Canon bashing attack point has been DR for a few years now, and for every new release Canon supporters have hoped that Canon would be able to respond, but no. They can't. Today they have the last place in the DR race, even less known players like Samsung have broken the 12 stop limit. So I understand that the there is some major disappointment going on.

Then if 14 stops rather than 12 is really going to make a big difference to your photography depends on your shooting style. As some say they blend 90% with 12 stop and 10% with 14 stop, and then it's a real difference. I use a 12 stop camera, and I don't feel that limited by it, I use grads from time to time, but my shooting style involves lots or overcast skies, sun is rarely in the frame etc I tonemap relatively rarely. Other landscape photography styles are focused around high DR subjects and various tonemapping techniques and then those 2 extra stops does make a difference.
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shadowblade

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2015, 08:19:07 am »

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by nice.  Yes the AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G is old and exhibits more CA than the Canon, but it is sharper.  And while rumors of a VR version of the 24-70mm f/2.8 has been a mainstay for the last 4 years, I think we might actually get a new one.

It handily beats the old Canon 24-70 f/2.8.

But the 24-70 f/2.8 II is prime-sharp corner-to-corner and has minimal CA.

Nikon is yet to release a version competitive with this.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2015, 09:48:18 am »

... Waiting for the first "rantatorial"...

Ha! Priceless!
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