Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 9   Go Down

Author Topic: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?  (Read 51294 times)

uheck

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« on: February 06, 2015, 09:47:50 am »

Hi dear Collegues,

today I decided to sell my Leica S2.I think the offer Canon allows us is phenomenal.Large portions of fashion, car & product shooters will move away from MF.
Canons UI (user interface) is second to none (what made me sell the Nikon after 3 days back then), so is the haptics of the camera.
Iīm shure the Magic Lantern guys will work their magic thru the firmware and in tzhe end we will see 15-16f stops Dr thru "Dual ISO" options.
The price for a MF alternative and superb lenses (think SIGMA since they reinvented themselves, Zeiss, old lenses etc.) is now absolutely affordable.

Pros will love this.

I just donīt understand why Canon publishes this crap first hand.This is the first touch everyone experiences and a single image can make or break a brand.Someone should get FIRED at CANON PR.

Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2562
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2015, 10:01:23 am »

Hi dear Collegues,

today I decided to sell my Leica S2.I think the offer Canon allows us is phenomenal.Large portions of fashion, car & product shooters will move away from MF.
Canons UI (user interface) is second to none (what made me sell the Nikon after 3 days back then), so is the haptics of the camera.
Iīm shure the Magic Lantern guys will work their magic thru the firmware and in tzhe end we will see 15-16f stops Dr thru "Dual ISO" options.
The price for a MF alternative and superb lenses (think SIGMA since they reinvented themselves, Zeiss, old lenses etc.) is now absolutely affordable.

Pros will love this.

I just donīt understand why Canon publishes this crap first hand.This is the first touch everyone experiences and a single image can make or break a brand.Someone should get FIRED at CANON PR.



Magic Lantern's dual-ISO DR comes at a high price in resolution.

I'm sure the 5Ds will be great for studio photographers who can control their lighting, but landscape photographers have no way to control their lighting and can really use the extra DR. Certainly, moving from the 5D2 to A7r made a lot of previously-impossible shots (high-DR scenes with moving elements) trivial.
Logged

MatthewCromer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2015, 10:02:49 am »

Well, four months before this camera ships in half a year, you'll be able to buy a Sony 50 megapixel camera with much better dynamic range at half the price. And EFCS and no flappy mirror to destroy sharpness, and the ability to critically focus in the viewfinder (needed with a 50MP camera!)

So, that's basically why.

Logged

uheck

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 10:04:26 am »

Exactly.

We will now see completely new styles in car photography ( people stuff at night, long lenses etc.) and fashion.
Better cropped images, since /mediocre) ADs and clients can decide until the last second.

I will now keep my IQ180 and a 5Ds.
Logged

dwswager

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1375
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 10:08:33 am »

Hi dear Collegues,

today I decided to sell my Leica S2.I think the offer Canon allows us is phenomenal.Large portions of fashion, car & product shooters will move away from MF.
Canons UI (user interface) is second to none (what made me sell the Nikon after 3 days back then), so is the haptics of the camera.
Iīm shure the Magic Lantern guys will work their magic thru the firmware and in tzhe end we will see 15-16f stops Dr thru "Dual ISO" options.
The price for a MF alternative and superb lenses (think SIGMA since they reinvented themselves, Zeiss, old lenses etc.) is now absolutely affordable.

Pros will love this.

I just donīt understand why Canon publishes this crap first hand.This is the first touch everyone experiences and a single image can make or break a brand.Someone should get FIRED at CANON PR.

As to user interface, I have learned that some people naturally prefer Canon while other Nikon (ignoring all the rest which also has their fans.).  

The real issue with the new 5Ds is whether there a gain in sensor performance.  MP is nice, but not the only thing.  And at 50MPs it excludes a big segment of the market where that type of pixel count just isn't needed or desired.  So everyone is waiting to see if the camera performs to the limited target market or is it the same old thing Canon has delivered (weak low ISO performance with noisy shadows and limited DR, good high ISO performance) with more pixels. And by the time it ships there will be 50MP Sony that you can bet will have the performance for that target market.  And I doubt Nikon is foolish enough to sit this out considering the success of the D800/D800e and the D810. 

As a D810 owner, there are aspects of the 5DmkIII that recommend it over the D810 for specific applications, but from the standpoint of the sensor output the 5DmkIII at $3000 isn't even the match for the $2000 D750.  It just isn't.  And I think that is the frustrating thing.  If Canon had access to Sony sensors for say the 5DmkIII and 7DmkII (both at 24MP), those would be 2 stellar cameras.  As they are, they are good, but not great.  Similarly if you take some of the operational capabilities in the Canons and put them in the Nikons, they would be better too.
Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2562
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 10:36:31 am »

As to user interface, I have learned that some people naturally prefer Canon while other Nikon (ignoring all the rest which also has their fans.).  

The real issue with the new 5Ds is whether there a gain in sensor performance.  MP is nice, but not the only thing.  And at 50MPs it excludes a big segment of the market where that type of pixel count just isn't needed or desired.  So everyone is waiting to see if the camera performs to the limited target market or is it the same old thing Canon has delivered (weak low ISO performance with noisy shadows and limited DR, good high ISO performance) with more pixels. And by the time it ships there will be 50MP Sony that you can bet will have the performance for that target market.  And I doubt Nikon is foolish enough to sit this out considering the success of the D800/D800e and the D810. 

As a D810 owner, there are aspects of the 5DmkIII that recommend it over the D810 for specific applications, but from the standpoint of the sensor output the 5DmkIII at $3000 isn't even the match for the $2000 D750.  It just isn't.  And I think that is the frustrating thing.  If Canon had access to Sony sensors for say the 5DmkIII and 7DmkII (both at 24MP), those would be 2 stellar cameras.  As they are, they are good, but not great.  Similarly if you take some of the operational capabilities in the Canons and put them in the Nikons, they would be better too.

At 50MP and max ISO 6400, the two main groups who will be interested are studio photographers and landscape photographers.

Without a significant improvement in DR (to at least match the standard set by Sony, Leica, Samsung, Nikon and everyone else that isn't Canon) they won't win the landscape photographers. Which leaves only studio photographers.
Logged

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3883
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 10:37:49 am »

I found dual iso to be an excellent solution, and not very harsh in terms of overall loss in resolution as long as you stay in the lower ranges as the base.  I print for a photographer locally who uses it all the time and his works really don't suffer at all.  It was actually his shots, that convinced me to install the Magic Lantern in the first place.  

Paul
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2015, 10:38:36 am »

they won't win the landscape photographers.
are you stating that there are no landscape/architecture photographers that use Canon cameras that might be still willing to get 50mp with not worse DR that they were able to leave with so far for years ?
Logged

barryfitzgerald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 688
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 10:41:07 am »

I'm glad someone likes Canon's interface I find it quite awful.
Having used every brand out there it's not one I like using.

Handling wise there was only ever one maker to nail it right to the wall and that was Minolta with the film 7/9 and 7d bodies superb handling unmatched by anyone since, what a shame nobody has taken up the baton since.

Every time I pick up a Canon it makes me want to put it down I've shot plenty I connected to none of them, even ones I bought to use for a while.
Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2562
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2015, 10:56:33 am »

are you stating that there are no landscape/architecture photographers that use Canon cameras that might be still willing to get 50mp with not worse DR that they were able to leave with so far for years ?

Sure, they'll keep some that they already have, but they won't win any back from the other side - not if Sony or Nikon releases a 50MP sensor of their own with better DR, anyway (which is highly likely). They already lost a lot of landscapers to the D800e and A7r, and won't be winning them back unless the new body delivers DR-wise.
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1974
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 11:01:57 am »

At 50MP and max ISO 6400, the two main groups who will be interested are studio photographers and landscape photographers.

Without a significant improvement in DR (to at least match the standard set by Sony, Leica, Samsung, Nikon and everyone else that isn't Canon) they won't win the landscape photographers. Which leaves only studio photographers.

Believe it or not, most landscape pictures on my websites are shot with a Canon full frame, 5D, 1Ds III and 5D III. Only a small part of them are HDR blended (<1%).

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2015, 11:25:01 am »

Without a significant improvement in DR (to at least match the standard set by Sony, Leica, Samsung, Nikon and everyone else that isn't Canon) they won't win the landscape photographers. Which leaves only studio photographers.

Sigh...

That's such a lot of crap...
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

dwswager

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1375
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2015, 11:29:11 am »

are you stating that there are no landscape/architecture photographers that use Canon cameras that might be still willing to get 50mp with not worse DR that they were able to leave with so far for years ?

Absolutely there will be people that will buy this camera to shoot landscape.  And the sunk cost and learning curve hurdles of switching to some other brand aside, it baffles me.  This camera was the signal to Canon owners.  You can let the 7DmkII slide as it was targeted at action where high ISO is important.  The 5Ds however, was the camera that should have had great base ISO performance.  Canon must be sitting back laughing their asses off thanking their lucky stars that their users are willing to overpay for their gear.  Cause let's face it, the 5DmkIII is at best an $2000 camera when compared to available alternatives.  On the flip side, Nikon must be sitting back wondering "what are we doing wrong?" cause comparatively the D810 should be selling for $1000 - $2000 more than the 5DmkIII, but Nikon users won't go for that!  This whole thing would be a fascinating study in human psychology!
Logged

Herbc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2015, 11:34:19 am »

since I am reasonably new to this, can somebody explain why 24mp is not enough for 20x30 prints?  Seems like the mega
pixel race will have no end.  In the landscape "Fine Art" arena, my stuff keeps getting into national juried shows, and the megapixels are the last item on a check list of what makes a good photograph.
Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2562
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2015, 11:35:54 am »

Believe it or not, most landscape pictures on my websites are shot with a Canon full frame, 5D, 1Ds III and 5D III. Only a small part of them are HDR blended (<1%).

Probably 80-90% of my Canon (5D2) landscapes were blended.

Only around 10% of my Sony A7r shots are.
Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2562
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 11:39:09 am »

since I am reasonably new to this, can somebody explain why 24mp is not enough for 20x30 prints?  Seems like the mega
pixel race will have no end.  In the landscape "Fine Art" arena, my stuff keeps getting into national juried shows, and the megapixels are the last item on a check list of what makes a good photograph.

Winning competitions isn't the same as making large prints for display or commercial sale.

Winning a competition is all about the aesthetic quality of the image. But, no matter how good the image is, you won't be able to sell it if it's not big enough to suit the buyer's purpose. For hotels, bars, hospitals and other public spaces, this often mean big (40x60" or larger) prints that will be viewed up close.
Logged

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 11:41:58 am »

Sure, they'll keep some that they already have, but they won't win any back from the other side - not if Sony or Nikon releases a 50MP sensor of their own with better DR, anyway (which is highly likely). They already lost a lot of landscapers to the D800e and A7r, and won't be winning them back unless the new body delivers DR-wise.

what lost is lost (in a previous situation with 36mp vs 21mp), but nothing serious is going to happen with 50mp vs 50mp and not serious changes in DR on both sides ...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 11:43:48 am by AlterEgo »
Logged

Jim Pascoe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1024
    • http://www.jimpascoe.co.uk
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 11:47:46 am »

I'm glad someone likes Canon's interface I find it quite awful.
Having used every brand out there it's not one I like using.

Handling wise there was only ever one maker to nail it right to the wall and that was Minolta with the film 7/9 and 7d bodies superb handling unmatched by anyone since, what a shame nobody has taken up the baton since.

Every time I pick up a Canon it makes me want to put it down I've shot plenty I connected to none of them, even ones I bought to use for a while.


I cannot see the problem with the interface.  Once set up how often does one ever actually go into menus?  And button placement is just a learned reflex.  I've had my IDs for about six years and I only go into the menu to format or check the clock for accuracy (matched to other cameras).  I can change all the settings I use with the camera to my eye because my fingers know when they're going.  I'm lost with a Nikon, but doubtless I could learn to use it just as well after a few thousand pictures (maybe 30,000) or so.

Jim
Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2562
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 11:52:48 am »

what lost is lost (in a previous situation with 36mp vs 21mp), but nothing serious is going to happen with 50mp vs 50mp and not serious changes in DR on both sides ...

No change in trend, certainly. But the current momentum (in terms of landscape photographers, at least) is away from Canon, and that will only continue, if not accelerate, if Canon's DR doesn't hold up.

One generation of bodies (5D3 vs D800e) you can certainly let slide, in the hope that the next generation will make up for it and that it will not be a long-term deficit. But two generations, including a body that appears to be designed with landscape/high-res photographers in mind but doesn't hold up DR-wise, will be a signal to many that Canon no longer has the gear for them and that it's time to move on.
Logged

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1207
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: EOS 5Ds- why all this negativity?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 11:58:52 am »

Probably around 90% of my interiors are blended. I was wishing for Exmor-like technology from the new Canons.
It would be a great help if I could cut that to half.

Something is for sure: Canon has its pride.

Eduardo

Probably 80-90% of my Canon (5D2) landscapes were blended.

Only around 10% of my Sony A7r shots are.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 9   Go Up