Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 11   Go Down

Author Topic: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters  (Read 78354 times)

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #140 on: February 06, 2015, 02:15:27 am »

yes yes...I added to my comment :-)
You usually are the quite one with the inside scoop...well, at least the one with the inside scoop  ;)

I should add, that your remarks are always something substantial, just to clarify the above for some folks.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 02:19:08 am by Phil Indeblanc »
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #141 on: February 06, 2015, 02:16:34 am »

yes yes...I added to my comment :-)

Saw that. :)

Cheers,
Bernard

CptZar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 157
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #142 on: February 06, 2015, 02:19:31 am »

Canon designed and built sensor...

Is that good or bad news?

Torbjörn Tapani

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 319
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #143 on: February 06, 2015, 02:24:05 am »

Is that good or bad news?

It means that Canon still makes more money doing their own sensor rather than licensing it from Sony. But it also means it has a lower dynamic range than the Sonys and Nikons out there. So you get a high megapixel option from Canon but no better in challenging light. Pixel quality on par with the 7D II or so. I am unimpressed to say the least.
Logged

bill t.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
    • http://www.unit16.net
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #144 on: February 06, 2015, 02:25:18 am »

In regards to those samples....

1. You can't be shooting through very much air and still realize 50mp worth of resolution.

2. It is possible to set up a studio shot where more is less, resolution-wise.

3. We have yet to see a truly sharp, Otus-level sample file.

Does it really not have mirror lock-up?  How electronic front curtain?  Those are make or break landscape features, IMHO.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #145 on: February 06, 2015, 02:26:41 am »

It means that Canon still makes more money doing their own sensor rather than licensing it from Sony. But it also means it has a lower dynamic range than the Sonys and Nikons out there. So you get a high megapixel option from Canon but no better in challenging light. Pixel quality on par with the 7D II or so. I am unimpressed to say the least.

I think that it is too early to say that. Let's wait for objective 3rd party measurements.

Even if it were the case, whether it's a good decision costwise would still be a guess. There could be other reasons why they would want to stick to their own sensors such as... pride, concerns about implicit admission of lower performance of their other bodies,...

Btw, the current street price in Japan on Amazon appears to be 484,500 yen for the R version, that's 50% more than the D810 as of today. It could still go down.

Availability is 6/30, roughly in 5 months time.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 02:34:05 am by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

Torbjörn Tapani

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 319
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #146 on: February 06, 2015, 02:31:07 am »

Sure it's too early to tell with any confidence but I read this paragraph in the dpreview first impressions

"It's convenient to think of the new 50MP as essentially an upscaled version of the 20MP sensor inside the EOS 7D Mark II - minus the 7D II's Dual-pixel AF. The pixel pitch of 4.14 microns is certainly very similar across both sensors. Accordingly, Canon tells us that at a pixel level, noise levels should be very similar to the EOS 7D Mark II and slightly better than what we'd expect from a 5D Mark II (note: not a 5D Mark III)."

It does have MUP, with some added features like delays so you only press once. Like exposure delay on the D800/E.
Logged

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #147 on: February 06, 2015, 02:44:07 am »

If Canon themselves say noise levels will be similar to 7D mark II we know what to expect. Forum folks won't be happy, on the other hand maybe Canon's market investigations have found that DR is not too important for the target group of users. If you shoot in studio you'll be fine... it's the landscape photographers that will be disappointed I guess.
Logged

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #148 on: February 06, 2015, 02:52:18 am »

But if you shoot stills for studio, that Oly with 40mp looks darn attractive for $1100 ...if you're looking to get more mpixels
Then again, so does the Sony A7R....or wait for the next Nikon...

And the band played on!
 :D
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #149 on: February 06, 2015, 03:01:21 am »

But if you shoot stills for studio, that Oly with 40mp looks darn attractive for $1100 ...if you're looking to get more mpixels
Then again, so does the Sony A7R....or wait for the next Nikon...

Some switch systems like the switch underwear, but I think most of us think it's quite painful, selling off all gear and then getting a new one where all the buttons and menus are different. So I think many current Canon users will be happy with this new camera, but the gear switchers will stay with their Nikon or Sony systems.

Even if DR is going to be about 7DmarkII style 11.7-12.0 stops (with some banding I presume), maybe there is some substantial improvement in color separation and skin tones (the CFA rumor) and then it may be a big hit for studio applications.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 03:05:42 am by torger »
Logged

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #150 on: February 06, 2015, 03:07:58 am »

I used Nikon for a number of years. After going to digital, and 2 models of digi Nikons with focus and color issues, I switched...and almost 10 years now with Canon. Only 1Ds line was closely good for my still studio, but the 4x5/Phase took over in workflow and IQ. I wouldn't sell off any gear unless it replaced. But this 5Ds may be the new street portrait and landscape camera for me. So the "S" for studio is not really applicable for my use...at least not sure yet.
I will be trying this beast out as soon as I can get my hands on it. Who knows, with the added resolution, and maybe a really good file with proper lighting, this thing can do wonders./?
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #151 on: February 06, 2015, 03:26:11 am »

If the camera is completely free of noise pattern issues that will make a pretty big difference of how usable the available DR is, and I don't think we can get an answer to that before we see raw files.

12 stops with nicely behaving noise is what I got on my Hassy and I think it's perfectly okay to shoot landscapes with, although I use grad filters from time to time.
Logged

CptZar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 157
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #152 on: February 06, 2015, 03:32:51 am »

Right it might be a little early to discuss, but that rumor has been around for some time.

Seeing that in the context of this website, which uses the word landscape in its name, the question might pop up, what the advantages of increasing MP without increasing the DR at the same time are?

Maybe we are at a point in sensor development, where increasing image size does not necessarily add some kind of usability. This is the same development computers took. In the early days the step from a 8088 to 386 was a huge leap forward. Today I still use my 2008 Mac Pro, and it runs just fine. I added a SSD, better graphics over the time, and also a new 5K iMac is a very interesting machine with it's gorgeous display. But only for that.  I will not experience a much different user experience in terms of processing power for Lightroom and Photoshop with it.

I use an Epson Stylus 4800 printer. I can print A2+ which is huge, and rather difficult to store. So usually I print A3, which is perfect for me. Actually most Landscape Pro's, which I know print on A3, because the size is nice to sell. For that I could be happy with 24MP.

However  with 36 MP I can crop extensively, and with 50 MP this will even be easier. Agreed, vey handy too. But do I, for the photography I do, need more than that, just because it is available?

I would call myself an early adapter. I like technical gadgets. A new sensor, with better DR and better color rendition would always make me want it. But just increasing image size, so I can do even more pixel peeping, without any real world benefit  doesn't make sense to me. At least for landscape photography.

Having said that, we all don't know how the new Canon sensor will really behave. But looking at that Hippo, I have my doubts.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 03:39:03 am by CptZar »
Logged

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #153 on: February 06, 2015, 03:42:07 am »

I'd love to have 400-600 megapixels with my tech camera, really outresolve the optical system and get a perfectly smooth image with no traces that it's "digital". High resolution also suits my "large format" shooting style.

But yes, it's a kind of special interest, and for the typical user I think having stayed at say 24 megapixels and increased the DR would have been more useful. I think that today the "DR race" is of more interest than the "MP race" to most people, and actually Canon is at last place. I often forget, but it's not only Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Aptina all are ahead of Canon.

Canon has some excellent (and expensive) glass, I think their lens line is a bit better than Nikon's, and to sell those a high MP sensor is good to have...

Good news is that 7D mark II is virtually free from pattern noise, so if they just keep that property I think the practical DR will be quite fine. On the other hand 5Dmk3 has some pattern noise so it could be any.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 04:15:53 am by torger »
Logged

Josh-H

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2079
    • Wild Nature Photo Travel
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #154 on: February 06, 2015, 04:49:31 am »

Not sure if this was posted - but there is a short interview with Chuck Westfall talking about the new cameras.

Interview

DR is said to be about the same as the 5D MK3. If that is indeed the case, I fear this camera could be a bit of a let down...More pixels without an increase in DR isn't really that useful outside of cropping power.
Logged
Wild Nature Photo Travel

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #155 on: February 06, 2015, 04:59:58 am »

Having said that, we all don't know how the new Canon sensor will really behave. But looking at that Hippo, I have my doubts.

If you mean the false colors in the specular highlights on the hippo skin that some have noted this is normal for an AA-free sensor combined with a sharp lens and sharp shot with low diffraction. False color aliasing. It could be the case that Canon's builtin demosaicer is not as good at hiding the artifacts as Nikon's is, but it's not the sensor's fault.

It's just yet another proof that being without the AA filter is not a good idea, regardless of genre.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #156 on: February 06, 2015, 05:19:27 am »

DR is said to be about the same as the 5D MK3. If that is indeed the case, I fear this camera could be a bit of a let down...More pixels without an increase in DR isn't really that useful outside of cropping power.

Well, you also get a crisper image when you downsize though.

Colors separation could also have been improved if they changed the filtering.

Cheers,
Bernard

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2839
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #157 on: February 06, 2015, 07:24:06 am »

Not sure if this was posted - but there is a short interview with Chuck Westfall talking about the new cameras.

Interview

DR is said to be about the same as the 5D MK3. If that is indeed the case, I fear this camera could be a bit of a let down...More pixels without an increase in DR isn't really that useful outside of cropping power.

They've said the same performance on the pixel level. But it has more than twice as many pixels. So that's an extra stop and a bit right there (when calculating using the usual method, which involves correcting it to a standard resolution), even assuming no other improvements.

 Pattern noise has also disappeared, which goes a long way towards making the darker stops usable.

I'd like to see what DxO makes of the sensor. If it doesn't match up, the A7rII/A9 will be more attractive to landscape photographers, for whom AF is purely optional.
Logged

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #158 on: February 06, 2015, 07:31:03 am »

They've said the same performance on the pixel level. But it has more than twice as many pixels. So that's an extra stop and a bit right there (when calculating using the usual method, which involves correcting it to a standard resolution), even assuming no other improvements.

 Pattern noise has also disappeared, which goes a long way towards making the darker stops usable.

I'd like to see what DxO makes of the sensor. If it doesn't match up, the A7rII/A9 will be more attractive to landscape photographers, for whom AF is purely optional.

That will be exactly my personal case, I will wait to see the reports from third parties in DR, and I will wait to see what it is the new Sony A7rII/A9... and then decide if I migrate to Sony or not... (using an adapter during transition, not ideal, but I have no money to switch all lenses at the same time... anyway... I will save a lot of money, I don't expect the the Sony camera to cost nearly $4000 like de 5Ds R)

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4066
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Canon EOS 5Ds and 5DsR - 50.3MP with and without AA filters
« Reply #159 on: February 06, 2015, 08:31:02 am »

The best test will be to shoot the new Canon's in your own environment, hopefully lensrentals will have them in a few months.  I will for rent one to see.  

It's a bit confusing on the early reviews, as one statement says, "don't expect much more DR than th e5D MKIII", and the other says, "the sensor is an upscaled version of the 7D MKII".  

I have shot the 7D MKII, and overall I was very impressed!.  It's a totally different look and feel to the files, more alive and very nice colors.  I was able to use the new 24-70 and the 70-200 F4 both the latest versions and liked the whole experience.  

At higher iso ranges, there was noise, but there is always noise at those levels, the harsh banding, in the red and blue channels was gone.  The noise presented itself much like the 6D, just like TriX film.  Much easier to work with than shots from my 5d MKII or 1ds MKIII.  
Personally I would have like to see a tilting LCD especially with this pixel count. 

It will be interesting to see the DxO scores, but this is a still a great move forward by Canon.  

What a lot of folks forget, is that while these sensors keep advancing, so does the raw conversion software.  The latest versions of LR or C1 both give really great results to the 7d MKII files and also help me be better results from my older 5d MKII images.  

This is still a great day for Canon shooters.  The 5D MKIII body is an excellent one, the AF is better than Nikon's (in low light for sure) and you are getting a new sensor, with a sensor that can be cropped (I love this feature).  The Canon glass is great and getting better albeit most of the newer lenses are base of F4 which is problem for me.  

Don't forgot that the 1ds MKIII was $8400.00 when announced!!  

Edit:  My main point is that if the new camera is based on a upscale 7D MKII sensor, then the results should be good as that sensor is a big improvement, even over the 5D MKIII.  However if they somehow based it on the 5D MKIII sensor then I would expect the same issues in overall DR.



Paul
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 09:08:44 am by Paul2660 »
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 11   Go Up