Kevin Raber's "Time for a Change"

[John Camp]

I applaud the effort of the operators of this website to renew it. Most of the changes outlined by Kevin seem to be structural, which is fine, but I hope there will also be some conceptual changes that come with the new formatting. When I first signed up with LL eleven years ago, the whole photographic community was in turmoil because of the change to digital. We needed the site. Anyone remember the discussions (and even a few solutions) that surrounded the Leica "magenta issue?" Or the controversies over the point when digital became as technically good as film? Or the vivid demonstrations of high ISO output -- I was quite literally shocked with what the Nikon D3 would do in low light.  I bought several very expensive cameras because of those discussions, including early Kodak full-frames, the Leica digitals, and so on. Now I have a D800 Nikon system and a Panny system, and I'm happy -- I don't pay much attention at all to new camera products, and frankly, my technique in straight photography is good enough that I don't need beginner discussions, and I have a very limited interest in squeezing the last pixel for every drop of information. But I do have a serious interest on other photographer's views of aesthetics, and observations on different types of photography (street, landscape, and so on.) This interest is not so much on technical matters, but on operational things -- "How I did it, and why" -- and simple accounts of how things were done successfully or even unsuccessfully, if they teach a lesson. Currently, The Online Photographer (TOP) has an engaging discussion about the differences between scenic and landscape photos, and it's been quite engaging discussion. I'd like to see more of that kind of thing here...somewhat more philosophical than nuts-and-bolts. That's why in another recent topic I asked Kevin if he might consider an article that explains what he is doing, on a conceptual level...I think that kind of thing could set off a very interesting discussion that could be important for people who read LL, much more important than whether big pixels are better than small pixels.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I have to say that every single detail of the new sample site moves in the right direction. Bravo to Michael, Kevin, Chris and the young web design team for doing such a clean makeover of this enormous site.

I am eagerly looking forward to the Valentine's Day launch!

[Farmer]

The preview of the new site looks very good!

I think, to John's query, that when the site is technically sound and easier to navigate and present information then this will attract more discussion and more use which increases the potential for information of the type he's asking for.

[Kevin Raber]

John,  Good points and something we have been considering.  We have a lot of articles in the queue and I do hope once we get the new site launched I can do more writing as you suggest.  This has been a very full time project and it is nice to see it coming down the home stretch.  Everyday we tweak it more and more.  I am sure that everyone will benefit from the new site and that we will now have a platform to grow on. 

Kevin Raber

[B-Ark]

Sounds exciting - I look forward to Valentine's Day.
I especially like the rantatorial - the idea doubtlessly borrowed from Rick Mercer ?

[jerryw]

I've been following this site for about 10 years, and have tremendous respect for Michael, his career, and all he has done to help the rest of us through Luminous-Landscape.  My photography has definitely benefited from all I have learn here.  Many thanks to LL for all they have done.

In short: I like the new site layout.

One thing though - nothing about a mobile site in Kevin's article.  I'll be amazed if, when the new site is released, there isn't a mobile version.  This next sentence is just a joke folks - if no mobile it will be kind of like Canon refusing to include an easy-MLU button on their cameras after years of harping from Michael!!!  :-)    LL - if mobile isn't in the next release - please do it soon!!  Thanks!!

[John Hue]

I second jerryw, a mobile version would be great. I must confess the the website in its current state is relatively easy to read but since the text does not resize well I often have to zoom and scroll horizontaly to read an article. Also the videos are almost not viewable but that's mostly Vimeo's fualt with their bad embded viewer (from what I understand).

Also, I noticed that there is no "previous" button at the end of the front page, if you know what I mean... like in a blog, where there is only a given number of article on one page but you can go back to the previous ones. I understand that all articles will be filed in the Article page of the site but then, from what I understand, they won't be classified by date. I always found it difficult to catch up when I'm back from holydays if the number of new articles exceeds the maximum number of article on the front page,

Otherwise, the new desktop website looks amazing, very clean and in the spirit of the actual design which is great. I can't wait to see it !

[Kevin Raber]

Ok....cool

First there is a woman featured in the mock up Anna Possberg with an article on Time Lapse.  We have been featuring women as often as we can.  When the new site is up search for Jackie Ranken, Katrin Eismann and Eleanor Brown just to mention a few.  I'm all for adding more woman contributors and I have been seeking out and talking to a few.

To everyone who wants to know about mobile.  The site scales and adapts to mobile very nicely.  Works great in vert and Horz modes on the iPad and iPhone.  Sorry I didn't mention that previously. I enjoyed reading the new site on my iPhone 6+ last night at dinner. 

Just to be clear.  All articles when they are published will show on the articles page and they are all listed and posted by date with the newest at top.  This goes all the way to the first article on page 1052.  Once you move to a new page off the first page a previous button will show and you can go back if so desired.  You can do some fun search too.  Also you can go directly to articles in certain categories. 

We already have some great articles in the queue of the new site on creativity and aesthetics with more planned.  There will also me some good technique articles coming plus book reviews on a regular basis.

I'm sure too you'll love the video section as it is being totally redone.  All posts made on the new site go out to social media and RSS feeds.  So you can subscribe to a news feeder to get the latest info.  All articles can be shared on your own social media pages.  We hope you use this feature to spread the word about LuLa.

Once we launch the site we have a number of other Phase Two projects for the site going forward.  We are also working on some new and different content ideas. 

It is exciting times.  We just want to get to launch day and from there we will introduce more things as they become available.  While Micahel and I are in Antarctica our developers will be working hard to complete a long list of things to be finished.  We are right on target.

Thanks
Kevin Raber

[Nigel Johnson]

The new layout looks good. Will it still be possible to view the standard site from an iPad, or only the mobile version - in many cases I prefer the standard version of other sites as my Retina iPad has more resolution than my normal computer display, obviously on a smart phone the choice is rather different.

Am I also correct in understanding that in future your new site will be hosting the videos for subscribers rather than Purple. If so I will be very happy as I seem to have had nothing but trouble with Purple Player and downloading videos.

[Kevin Raber]

Nigel,

As far as videos go it is a totally new system.  Purple is gone and we have designed what think will be easy and powerful video content delivery.

As far as viewing the site on mobile.  In Horz mode on an iPad it looks just like a regular computer.  Otherwise it scales the side bars and things to adjust to other mobile screen sizes and vertical orientation.  It seems to be working great.

A lot better than the way it was (is).

Kevin

[Nigel Johnson]

Kevin,

Thank you for the reply, great to hear that Purple will be gone as I almost did not renew my subscription. Also good to hear about the mobile viewing.

Best wishes to you, Michael and the team for the relaunch.

Nigel

[Michael LS]

Yes, it’s great to see that our favorite photography website is still in good hands. It seems that Kevin and Michael are covering all the bases on the new site. In the spirit of keeping it our favorite, as well as The Best, I do have one idea I’d like to offer here. It may not be easy, but it is important, because organizations “live long and prosper” (I stole that somewhere) or else they eventually slide into neglect, disrepair, and failure, based, not only on the quality of The Management, but also the quality of their customers. In this case, “customers” include every single person who visits and participates in LuLa’s forum threads.

I haven’t posted here in a long time, the reason being that one of the last times I did, I drew a couple of trolls out of the woodwork. My post had the best of intentions, and was instead twisted into something it was never meant to be. No doubt, we’ve all had that experience, here on “these internets”. Every dysfunctional with a poison axe to grind trolls the internet seas, periscope up, sonar on full blast, and finger on The Red Button, baited breath, looking for an excuse to launch a nuclear-tipped torpedo.

So what I’d like to ask Kevin and Michael is, do your best to have a well-moderated forum, and if you or your other staff are notified of an abusive post, please attend to it. Don’t allow it to pass unchallenged. Speaking for myself, yes, I can defend myself without anyone’s help, IF I choose to do so, but that just forces me to pollute myself down in the sewer with the troll, who, of course, lives there. It’s very easy- they never seem to have, shall we say, a “challenging IQ”…but to pick up an intellectual stick and beat them just causes toxic vibrations in my soul, and further aggravates the situation.
I mean, I visit LuLa with joy and love of our common Art, which is Image-making. Why do I want that to turn into a pissing match with a moron? I don’t, and no good person here does, either.

Kevin and Michael, thanks for listening. All the best to you both, and to Lula.

[Michael LS]

This is simply the best moderated forum I've come across. I admire the moderator's light touch.

Having said that it would be all the better if there was a real names policy, encouraging contributors to take more responsibility over what it is they post.

You've chosen to quote, and reply to, one line from my post, so be it.
I'm glad that the moderator's approach has worked well for you, thus far.
A light touch is fine, as long as it isn't too light. And that is where we
may all differ in our opinions, yet perhaps only differ in one small but
important degree.

[Michael LS]

Michael, I really doubt that dysfunctional folk with a poison axe would last long here.

Well then, I must have imagined those trolls I spoke of.
Or, hopefully, things have changed a bit since my last
few posts of 2+ years ago. If Kevin or Michael will
acknowledge my well-meant idea, then great.

Meanwhile, KLaban, thank you for all of your empathy.

[cmi]

Already looks good, judging from a quick glance over the article. Nothing beats giving it into the hand of some talented coders+designers.

I always thought Lula was great but the greatness of the images didnt translate equally to the overall experience. A mistake many photographers and even filmmakers do.

[Michael LS]

Michael, I apologise if my posts seemed lacking in empathy, that certainly wasn't my intention, but rather they were a reflection of my own experiences here on LuLa over many years.

You know, I’m starting to believe in all that “Law of Attraction” B.S. that has been spreading over the last decade or so. My first post here in nearly 3 years, and already I have have someone disagreeing with what I’ve said, just because it doesn’t jive with their own personal experience. It is also a perfect example of the sad Fact that so many of us can’t really “hear” the other person, or, we just hear what we want to hear. It’s like, “Hey, if it never happened to me or anybody I know, then it can’t happen.”

You see, KLaban, if you were to post an unfortunate experience on a LuLa thread, and if I chose to respond to you, I would respond directly to your experience, first by fully acknowledging it, and then by telling you I’m sorry that it happened to you, and finally, that I applaud your idea (if you offered one) of finding a solution to the issue in case it were to happen again in the future. In my original post, I didn’t ask anyone if it had ever happened to them, nor did I ask to take votes on the performance of the forum moderator(s). I was simply relating something that happened to me, and how it might be prevented or dealt with in the future. It was not an attack on LuLa, it was a suggestion meant to help LuLa. Yet once again, the heart of my post is gutted, and turned into something it was never meant to be. And this time, done so by an otherwise decent, talented and empathetic person like KLaban.

Indeed, The Road to Hell was "Truly" Paved With Good Intentions...Lmao!

[Lenco]

Thanks God you're going to abandon the visually stressful practice of making us read reams of white type on a black background just because it purportedly makes color images look better.

[Farmer]

It seems that rather than having a mobile version, it's a Responsive style, which is really the way to go - so well done!

MichaelLS - with all due respect, I think that you may be over reacting a little.  This is a public forum and people can (and do) respond to any particular aspect that they like.  It prompts them to comment on something, even if it's not directly related to you.  That's life, accept it :-)

[jerryw]

Great to hear that mobile is covered - thanks much!

I know Kevin said the forums will remain unchanged except for a new topic or two.  But, if I may, I'd like to make a suggestion for an improvement.

Specifically, when hitting forums like the Landscape one, it would be great if there was a way to see a thumbnail of the images that are embedded in the Subject threads without having to click on each thread.

Said differently, if one wants to quickly scan, say, the landscape forum for threads that might have interesting images to discuss, right now it is a bit painful in that one has to click each subject and then click embedded images which, in turn, display in a pop-up.  Its awkward.  The net result is that I look at less threads/ images than I otherwise might.  As one example, photo.net highlights the image thumbnails first, and then one clicks into the detail.  That makes more sense to me, at least for those forum topics that are, inherently, about C&C of images.

That said, I think the forums are fine as-is for text-oriented discussions.

Thanks for listening.

[Jim Pascoe]

You know, I’m starting to believe in all that “Law of Attraction” B.S. that has been spreading over the last decade or so. My first post here in nearly 3 years, and already I have have someone disagreeing with what I’ve said, just because it doesn’t jive with their own personal experience. It is also a perfect example of the sad Fact that so many of us can’t really “hear” the other person, or, we just hear what we want to hear. It’s like, “Hey, if it never happened to me or anybody I know, then it can’t happen.”

You see, KLaban, if you were to post an unfortunate experience on a LuLa thread, and if I chose to respond to you, I would respond directly to your experience, first by fully acknowledging it, and then by telling you I’m sorry that it happened to you, and finally, that I applaud your idea (if you offered one) of finding a solution to the issue in case it were to happen again in the future. In my original post, I didn’t ask anyone if it had ever happened to them, nor did I ask to take votes on the performance of the forum moderator(s). I was simply relating something that happened to me, and how it might be prevented or dealt with in the future. It was not an attack on LuLa, it was a suggestion meant to help LuLa. Yet once again, the heart of my post is gutted, and turned into something it was never meant to be. And this time, done so by an otherwise decent, talented and empathetic person like KLaban.

Indeed, The Road to Hell was "Truly" Paved With Good Intentions...Lmao!

Michael - I think you are being very thin-skinned.  You posted your views on the moderation of the forum and KLaben just put his view that he thinks the moderation is about right - with which I agree.  Seeing you have a total of 60 posts over many years, and he has about 1800 I think you would agree that just maybe he has more experience of the LL forum than you have.  You are welcome to your point of view but you cannot turn up at a group - take umbrage at a couple of comments and then complain to other very long term members that it needs changing.  I just had a quick look at your most recent posts from a few years back and it looks as if you were having very civilised and constructive discussions - not a 'pissing match' in sight.
There are a few idiots here - but you can just choose to ignore them.  I'm all for having the minimum amount of moderation necessary and in my experience Michael or Chris soon clamp down on any really bad behaviour.  Its just about right.

Best wishes

Jim