Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: John Camp on January 21, 2015, 08:05:49 pm
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I applaud the effort of the operators of this website to renew it. Most of the changes outlined by Kevin seem to be structural, which is fine, but I hope there will also be some conceptual changes that come with the new formatting. When I first signed up with LL eleven years ago, the whole photographic community was in turmoil because of the change to digital. We needed the site. Anyone remember the discussions (and even a few solutions) that surrounded the Leica "magenta issue?" Or the controversies over the point when digital became as technically good as film? Or the vivid demonstrations of high ISO output -- I was quite literally shocked with what the Nikon D3 would do in low light. I bought several very expensive cameras because of those discussions, including early Kodak full-frames, the Leica digitals, and so on. Now I have a D800 Nikon system and a Panny system, and I'm happy -- I don't pay much attention at all to new camera products, and frankly, my technique in straight photography is good enough that I don't need beginner discussions, and I have a very limited interest in squeezing the last pixel for every drop of information. But I do have a serious interest on other photographer's views of aesthetics, and observations on different types of photography (street, landscape, and so on.) This interest is not so much on technical matters, but on operational things -- "How I did it, and why" -- and simple accounts of how things were done successfully or even unsuccessfully, if they teach a lesson. Currently, The Online Photographer (TOP) has an engaging discussion about the differences between scenic and landscape photos, and it's been quite engaging discussion. I'd like to see more of that kind of thing here...somewhat more philosophical than nuts-and-bolts. That's why in another recent topic I asked Kevin if he might consider an article that explains what he is doing, on a conceptual level...I think that kind of thing could set off a very interesting discussion that could be important for people who read LL, much more important than whether big pixels are better than small pixels.
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I have to say that every single detail of the new sample site moves in the right direction. Bravo to Michael, Kevin, Chris and the young web design team for doing such a clean makeover of this enormous site.
I am eagerly looking forward to the Valentine's Day launch!
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The preview of the new site looks very good!
I think, to John's query, that when the site is technically sound and easier to navigate and present information then this will attract more discussion and more use which increases the potential for information of the type he's asking for.
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John, Good points and something we have been considering. We have a lot of articles in the queue and I do hope once we get the new site launched I can do more writing as you suggest. This has been a very full time project and it is nice to see it coming down the home stretch. Everyday we tweak it more and more. I am sure that everyone will benefit from the new site and that we will now have a platform to grow on.
Kevin Raber
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Sounds exciting - I look forward to Valentine's Day.
I especially like the rantatorial - the idea doubtlessly borrowed from Rick Mercer ?
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I've been following this site for about 10 years, and have tremendous respect for Michael, his career, and all he has done to help the rest of us through Luminous-Landscape. My photography has definitely benefited from all I have learn here. Many thanks to LL for all they have done.
In short: I like the new site layout.
One thing though - nothing about a mobile site in Kevin's article. I'll be amazed if, when the new site is released, there isn't a mobile version. This next sentence is just a joke folks - if no mobile it will be kind of like Canon refusing to include an easy-MLU button on their cameras after years of harping from Michael!!! :-) LL - if mobile isn't in the next release - please do it soon!! Thanks!!
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I second jerryw, a mobile version would be great. I must confess the the website in its current state is relatively easy to read but since the text does not resize well I often have to zoom and scroll horizontaly to read an article. Also the videos are almost not viewable but that's mostly Vimeo's fualt with their bad embded viewer (from what I understand).
Also, I noticed that there is no "previous" button at the end of the front page, if you know what I mean... like in a blog, where there is only a given number of article on one page but you can go back to the previous ones. I understand that all articles will be filed in the Article page of the site but then, from what I understand, they won't be classified by date. I always found it difficult to catch up when I'm back from holydays if the number of new articles exceeds the maximum number of article on the front page,
Otherwise, the new desktop website looks amazing, very clean and in the spirit of the actual design which is great. I can't wait to see it !
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Ok....cool
First there is a woman featured in the mock up Anna Possberg with an article on Time Lapse. We have been featuring women as often as we can. When the new site is up search for Jackie Ranken, Katrin Eismann and Eleanor Brown just to mention a few. I'm all for adding more woman contributors and I have been seeking out and talking to a few.
To everyone who wants to know about mobile. The site scales and adapts to mobile very nicely. Works great in vert and Horz modes on the iPad and iPhone. Sorry I didn't mention that previously. I enjoyed reading the new site on my iPhone 6+ last night at dinner.
Just to be clear. All articles when they are published will show on the articles page and they are all listed and posted by date with the newest at top. This goes all the way to the first article on page 1052. Once you move to a new page off the first page a previous button will show and you can go back if so desired. You can do some fun search too. Also you can go directly to articles in certain categories.
We already have some great articles in the queue of the new site on creativity and aesthetics with more planned. There will also me some good technique articles coming plus book reviews on a regular basis.
I'm sure too you'll love the video section as it is being totally redone. All posts made on the new site go out to social media and RSS feeds. So you can subscribe to a news feeder to get the latest info. All articles can be shared on your own social media pages. We hope you use this feature to spread the word about LuLa.
Once we launch the site we have a number of other Phase Two projects for the site going forward. We are also working on some new and different content ideas.
It is exciting times. We just want to get to launch day and from there we will introduce more things as they become available. While Micahel and I are in Antarctica our developers will be working hard to complete a long list of things to be finished. We are right on target.
Thanks
Kevin Raber
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The new layout looks good. Will it still be possible to view the standard site from an iPad, or only the mobile version - in many cases I prefer the standard version of other sites as my Retina iPad has more resolution than my normal computer display, obviously on a smart phone the choice is rather different.
Am I also correct in understanding that in future your new site will be hosting the videos for subscribers rather than Purple. If so I will be very happy as I seem to have had nothing but trouble with Purple Player and downloading videos.
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Nigel,
As far as videos go it is a totally new system. Purple is gone and we have designed what think will be easy and powerful video content delivery.
As far as viewing the site on mobile. In Horz mode on an iPad it looks just like a regular computer. Otherwise it scales the side bars and things to adjust to other mobile screen sizes and vertical orientation. It seems to be working great.
A lot better than the way it was (is).
Kevin
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Kevin,
Thank you for the reply, great to hear that Purple will be gone as I almost did not renew my subscription. Also good to hear about the mobile viewing.
Best wishes to you, Michael and the team for the relaunch.
Nigel
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Yes, it’s great to see that our favorite photography website is still in good hands. It seems that Kevin and Michael are covering all the bases on the new site. In the spirit of keeping it our favorite, as well as The Best, I do have one idea I’d like to offer here. It may not be easy, but it is important, because organizations “live long and prosper” (I stole that somewhere) or else they eventually slide into neglect, disrepair, and failure, based, not only on the quality of The Management, but also the quality of their customers. In this case, “customers” include every single person who visits and participates in LuLa’s forum threads.
I haven’t posted here in a long time, the reason being that one of the last times I did, I drew a couple of trolls out of the woodwork. My post had the best of intentions, and was instead twisted into something it was never meant to be. No doubt, we’ve all had that experience, here on “these internets”. Every dysfunctional with a poison axe to grind trolls the internet seas, periscope up, sonar on full blast, and finger on The Red Button, baited breath, looking for an excuse to launch a nuclear-tipped torpedo.
So what I’d like to ask Kevin and Michael is, do your best to have a well-moderated forum, and if you or your other staff are notified of an abusive post, please attend to it. Don’t allow it to pass unchallenged. Speaking for myself, yes, I can defend myself without anyone’s help, IF I choose to do so, but that just forces me to pollute myself down in the sewer with the troll, who, of course, lives there. It’s very easy- they never seem to have, shall we say, a “challenging IQ”…but to pick up an intellectual stick and beat them just causes toxic vibrations in my soul, and further aggravates the situation.
I mean, I visit LuLa with joy and love of our common Art, which is Image-making. Why do I want that to turn into a pissing match with a moron? I don’t, and no good person here does, either.
Kevin and Michael, thanks for listening. All the best to you both, and to Lula.
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This is simply the best moderated forum I've come across. I admire the moderator's light touch.
Having said that it would be all the better if there was a real names policy, encouraging contributors to take more responsibility over what it is they post.
You've chosen to quote, and reply to, one line from my post, so be it.
I'm glad that the moderator's approach has worked well for you, thus far.
A light touch is fine, as long as it isn't too light. And that is where we
may all differ in our opinions, yet perhaps only differ in one small but
important degree.
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Michael, I really doubt that dysfunctional folk with a poison axe would last long here.
Well then, I must have imagined those trolls I spoke of.
Or, hopefully, things have changed a bit since my last
few posts of 2+ years ago. If Kevin or Michael will
acknowledge my well-meant idea, then great.
Meanwhile, KLaban, thank you for all of your empathy.
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Already looks good, judging from a quick glance over the article. Nothing beats giving it into the hand of some talented coders+designers.
I always thought Lula was great but the greatness of the images didnt translate equally to the overall experience. A mistake many photographers and even filmmakers do.
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Michael, I apologise if my posts seemed lacking in empathy, that certainly wasn't my intention, but rather they were a reflection of my own experiences here on LuLa over many years.
You know, I’m starting to believe in all that “Law of Attraction” B.S. that has been spreading over the last decade or so. My first post here in nearly 3 years, and already I have have someone disagreeing with what I’ve said, just because it doesn’t jive with their own personal experience. It is also a perfect example of the sad Fact that so many of us can’t really “hear” the other person, or, we just hear what we want to hear. It’s like, “Hey, if it never happened to me or anybody I know, then it can’t happen.”
You see, KLaban, if you were to post an unfortunate experience on a LuLa thread, and if I chose to respond to you, I would respond directly to your experience, first by fully acknowledging it, and then by telling you I’m sorry that it happened to you, and finally, that I applaud your idea (if you offered one) of finding a solution to the issue in case it were to happen again in the future. In my original post, I didn’t ask anyone if it had ever happened to them, nor did I ask to take votes on the performance of the forum moderator(s). I was simply relating something that happened to me, and how it might be prevented or dealt with in the future. It was not an attack on LuLa, it was a suggestion meant to help LuLa. Yet once again, the heart of my post is gutted, and turned into something it was never meant to be. And this time, done so by an otherwise decent, talented and empathetic person like KLaban.
Indeed, The Road to Hell was "Truly" Paved With Good Intentions...Lmao!
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Thanks God you're going to abandon the visually stressful practice of making us read reams of white type on a black background just because it purportedly makes color images look better.
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It seems that rather than having a mobile version, it's a Responsive style, which is really the way to go - so well done!
MichaelLS - with all due respect, I think that you may be over reacting a little. This is a public forum and people can (and do) respond to any particular aspect that they like. It prompts them to comment on something, even if it's not directly related to you. That's life, accept it :-)
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Great to hear that mobile is covered - thanks much!
I know Kevin said the forums will remain unchanged except for a new topic or two. But, if I may, I'd like to make a suggestion for an improvement.
Specifically, when hitting forums like the Landscape one, it would be great if there was a way to see a thumbnail of the images that are embedded in the Subject threads without having to click on each thread.
Said differently, if one wants to quickly scan, say, the landscape forum for threads that might have interesting images to discuss, right now it is a bit painful in that one has to click each subject and then click embedded images which, in turn, display in a pop-up. Its awkward. The net result is that I look at less threads/ images than I otherwise might. As one example, photo.net highlights the image thumbnails first, and then one clicks into the detail. That makes more sense to me, at least for those forum topics that are, inherently, about C&C of images.
That said, I think the forums are fine as-is for text-oriented discussions.
Thanks for listening.
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You know, I’m starting to believe in all that “Law of Attraction” B.S. that has been spreading over the last decade or so. My first post here in nearly 3 years, and already I have have someone disagreeing with what I’ve said, just because it doesn’t jive with their own personal experience. It is also a perfect example of the sad Fact that so many of us can’t really “hear” the other person, or, we just hear what we want to hear. It’s like, “Hey, if it never happened to me or anybody I know, then it can’t happen.”
You see, KLaban, if you were to post an unfortunate experience on a LuLa thread, and if I chose to respond to you, I would respond directly to your experience, first by fully acknowledging it, and then by telling you I’m sorry that it happened to you, and finally, that I applaud your idea (if you offered one) of finding a solution to the issue in case it were to happen again in the future. In my original post, I didn’t ask anyone if it had ever happened to them, nor did I ask to take votes on the performance of the forum moderator(s). I was simply relating something that happened to me, and how it might be prevented or dealt with in the future. It was not an attack on LuLa, it was a suggestion meant to help LuLa. Yet once again, the heart of my post is gutted, and turned into something it was never meant to be. And this time, done so by an otherwise decent, talented and empathetic person like KLaban.
Indeed, The Road to Hell was "Truly" Paved With Good Intentions...Lmao!
Michael - I think you are being very thin-skinned. You posted your views on the moderation of the forum and KLaben just put his view that he thinks the moderation is about right - with which I agree. Seeing you have a total of 60 posts over many years, and he has about 1800 I think you would agree that just maybe he has more experience of the LL forum than you have. You are welcome to your point of view but you cannot turn up at a group - take umbrage at a couple of comments and then complain to other very long term members that it needs changing. I just had a quick look at your most recent posts from a few years back and it looks as if you were having very civilised and constructive discussions - not a 'pissing match' in sight.
There are a few idiots here - but you can just choose to ignore them. I'm all for having the minimum amount of moderation necessary and in my experience Michael or Chris soon clamp down on any really bad behaviour. Its just about right.
Best wishes
Jim
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Thanks God you're going to abandon the visually stressful practice of making us read reams of white type on a black background just because it purportedly makes color images look better.
^This. The site really has been due a makeover. Without being rude it has looked very dated for almost all of it's online life. It doesn't bother me unduly as content is what I come for but as the subject has been raised...
As content has been mentioned I wish you'd stick to your strengths which are technical reviews or views by people that know their subject and their photography. The 'art' side of things hasn't been done well, isn't a great fit and is better found elsewhere.
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I usually hate web publication changes, but in this case, I like them. A lot. Big thumbs up here and kudos to all involved.
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Yet once again, the heart of my post is gutted, and turned into something it was never meant to be.
Your post is still as-it-was for all to see, just one-click-away from KLaban's quotation.
"To be generous, guiltless and of free disposition, is to take those things for bird-bolts (http://nfs.sparknotes.com/twelfthnight/page_38.html) that you deem cannon-bullets: there is no slander in an allowed fool, though he do nothing but rail; nor no railing in a known discreet man, though he do nothing but reprove."
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... My first post here in nearly 3 years, and already I have have someone disagreeing with what I’ve said...
Oh, no! Someone disagreeing!? How rude and unheard of. Alert the media (and moderators)!
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Kevin,
I applaud all the effort and work that is going into this site, what has already been accomplished since its inception, and I am looking forward to the remodeling up ahead.
As a woman, I too have sensed the small majority we make up, but hope we can help change this by contributing more.
The forum is the easiest place to contribute, but I have gotten a bit turned-off by some of its personality in the past. No one to point a finger at, but it appears some threads travel towards negative comments over time, and when I see this, I become disinterested and hesitate to participate. I think the best medicine to help cure this, is to simply not take the bait (do not respond) and leave the negative commenter alone with his thoughts. Maybe this is a female thing some of us discover in motherhood, but it can help send a more positive signal. Not to point others to another forum, but the GetDPI forum IMO is a success because of its personality, and I do contribute there mostly in the Medium Format Digital forum.
Looking forward to LuLa's new footprint!
Kind regards,
Darr
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Preview of the new site looks lovely!
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+1
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Fantastic news. Glad you are entering C21 :)
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I too had the snarky replies when I criticised aspects of the site.
At least now it is all happenning...with the word often used on the net...finally
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First there is a woman featured in the mock up Anna Possberg with an article on Time Lapse. We have been featuring women as often as we can. When the new site is up search for Jackie Ranken, Katrin Eismann and Eleanor Brown just to mention a few. I'm all for adding more woman contributors and I have been seeking out and talking to a few.
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Is it possible to get the grammar checking for comments too?
Because when I last checked, the word "woman" wasn't an adjective :)
Otherwise, the new style looks great and can't wait to take it for a test drive.
Oh except for one thing. Boxes. Boxes on images. Boxes on images in the lower right hand corner.
Don't do it.
Why?
You don't know what you'll be covering/obscuring.
Boxes seems to be a more recent "fad" in web development ("Hello Google Maps!") and is really not very well conceived. I've yet to find anyone that hasn't told Google to revert back to the old style Google Maps.
Maybe they make it easier for you when you're browsing via a tablet (I don't have a tablet so all that I can do is speculate there) but what they most definitely do is create clutter.
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Pretty busy getting ready to leave tomorrow for Antarctica plus trying to launch a NEW workshop for this summer in Svalbard. Sorry about the grammar. I am not perfect. As far as boxes on images. The boxes on the home page image show you what images are there. Roll your mouse over and you can see the data and title. Click on the upper right corner and you get a full screen width image that is zoomed in so you can look at detail. Roll your mouse out of the image and it goes to full frame. You'll get the hang of it. It's actually quite cool and we tried several variations before settling on this. This method should answer the needs and wants of many people who have made suggestions. There are a lot of other cool things. Only a few more weeks. While Michael and I are away the development team will be working on a large list of things to get done. Sometime on the 14th of February we flip the switch.
More news around the 12th of February.
Kevin
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Pretty busy getting ready to leave tomorrow for Antarctica plus trying to launch a NEW workshop for this summer in Svalbard. Sorry about the grammar. I am not perfect. As far as boxes on images. The boxes on the home page image show you what images are there. Roll your mouse over and you can see the data and title. Click on the upper right corner and you get a full screen width image that is zoomed in so you can look at detail. Roll your mouse out of the image and it goes to full frame. You'll get the hang of it. It's actually quite cool and we tried several variations before settling on this. This method should answer the needs and wants of many people who have made suggestions. There are a lot of other cool things. Only a few more weeks. While Michael and I are away the development team will be working on a large list of things to get done. Sometime on the 14th of February we flip the switch.
More news around the 12th of February.
Kevin
Kevin if they weren't picking on the grammar then it would be something else and if you were perfect they would pick on that too. I just wonder if the detractors are capable of hosting a web site and forum that is capable of pleasing some, never mind all of the members? :(
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Kevin if they weren't picking on the grammar then it would be something else and if you were perfect they would pick on that too. I just wonder if the detractors are capable of hosting a web site and forum that is capable of pleasing some, never mind all of the members? :(
For some of us, poor spelling/grammar is really distracting. Others have also brought up the subject of spelling/grammar errors in articles on LuLa. I've found that for people that do not have English as their first language, correct spelling and grammar is even more important.
Sometimes I'm reading through an article engrossed in the writing, only to come across an error. Thoughts then usually go along the line of "WTF?!", I skim the rest of the article and don't go back.
If it doesn't make any difference to you, well good for you.
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Dreed, It does make a difference. But, we don't catch everything and we are only a few people. I have some ideas on how to improve things in that regard but I have to see if I can implement it. In the meantime if you see something that needs attention then drop me an email I'll see that it get corrected.
Kevin
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Let me join the chorus of enthusiasm for the forthcoming redesign; I cannot recall a website redesign that received so much enthusiasm and so little criticism from its forum's old guard!
But in the spirit of polite, non-trolling disagreement:
... when I last checked, the word "woman" wasn't an adjective :)
The curmudgeon in me agrees, but my pragmatic side accepts that this has become a common usage -- perhaps because the more technically correct "female" can come across as a bit clinical and dehumanizing. (It is like my quixotic complaints about the displacement of both the noun "effect" and the verb "affect" in favor of a redefined "impact".)
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... my pragmatic side accepts that this has become a common usage -- perhaps because the more technically correct "female" ...
Pardon this English-as-second-language member for interjecting, but isn't the issue here much simpler, i.e., a typo, or auto-correct that corrected the intended "women contributors" into "woman..."
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General comment…
My english is decent, I guess, but not good enough to be upset about grammar. In general, I am more concerned about bad information than misspelling and bad grammar.
My take is that LuLa makes a decent work on both issues, decently good info and decently good language.
Best regards
Erik
Pardon this English-as-second-language member for interjecting, but isn't the issue here much simpler, i.e., a typo, or auto-correct that corrected the intended "women contributors" into "woman..."
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Michael, I really doubt that dysfunctional folk with a poison axe would last long here.
The evidence says otherwise. I have had people write nasty abusive posts to me over long periods of time and yet they are still present.
I can't see their hate filled bile as I now block them, but they seem to carry on upsetting others. Ho hum.
You know, I’m starting to believe in all that “Law of Attraction” B.S. that has been spreading over the last decade or so. My first post here in nearly 3 years, and already I have have someone disagreeing with what I’ve said, just because it doesn’t jive with their own personal experience. It is also a perfect example of the sad Fact that so many of us can’t really “hear” the other person, or, we just hear what we want to hear. It’s like, “Hey, if it never happened to me or anybody I know, then it can’t happen.”
That's the typical response of one barking mad poster on here.
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Thanks God you're going to abandon the visually stressful practice of making us read reams of white type on a black background just because it purportedly makes color images look better.
A thousands thanks for that from me too. Reading reverse text online is awful.
Something I have found somewhat contradictory about this site is how extremely well and informatively Michael writes about camera ergonomics/design and yet LuLa is so very poorly designed. It looks and feels like a website done by someone in the last century who had no idea about design, but had some software that let them do web layout. Much like giving someone who has no idea or ability about photography a fancy camera and then letting them exhibit in a gallery.
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Again, I can only go by personal experience and thankfully I've yet to. I wonder why?
I've called people out on posting opinions as facts, being nasty to to others, being apologists for rapists and so on and guess what, they got even more unpleasant. Others simply take it personally if you have a different view on life.
Some people let bullies and bigots carry on, I don't put up with it in real life or online. This tends to ruffle feathers. But the point is that some quite unpleasant individuals carry on posting despite what was otherwise asserted. :-\
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Regarding spelling, grammar ...
What if a volunteer program were set up, where a small number (6?) lula members would proofread the article, prior to the official posting. The article could be emailed to these volunteers, and they would have 48 hours to offer corrections. I could spare the time to proofread an article a month.
This post has been proofread by a thousand monkeys.
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Pardon this English-as-second-language member for interjecting, but isn't the issue here much simpler, i.e., a typo, or auto-correct that corrected the intended "women contributors" into "woman..."
Yes.. there is that...
The use of "woman" (or "women") as an adjective isn't very common. The example here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/woman?s=t (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/woman?s=t)
feels wrong. "A woman plumber"? "female plumber" seems more natural?
But really the problem is that the word "plumber" implies gender when it should not.
However there is that single sentence that came into my mind: "I am woman."
Back to the orignal sentence: "I'm all for adding more woman contributors", I'd probably write that as "I'm all for adding more contributors that are women"?
I suspect this is getting really OT :)
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Back to the orignal sentence: "I'm all for adding more woman contributors", I'd probably write that as "I'm all for adding more contributors that are women"?
Or even better - "I'm all for featuring more women"
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Or even better - "I'm all for featuring more women"
Yes! Especially on page 3.
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Regarding spelling, grammar ...
What if a volunteer program were set up, where a small number (6?) lula members would proofread the article, prior to the official posting. The article could be emailed to these volunteers, and they would have 48 hours to offer corrections. I could spare the time to proofread an article a month.
This post has been proofread by a thousand monkeys.
Excellent idea!
But why stop at spelling and grammar? It is hight time for someone to tackle PC issues as well, and that double troika you propose might just be the ones to do it. For instance, the very term "black & white" photography reeks of racial segregation, hence my hope that the magnificent six will make sure it is replaced with, say, "monochromatic gray" photography. Even "color" photography is suspicious. Also, high time to tell Epson to get rid of its antiquated racial language, like "light black" and "light light black" (a thinly veiled, cruel joke at Michael Jackson's expense, perhaps?).
Good thing, though, it would be a virtual team. I am not sure if we would put six people in a room, for instance, to work on this project, that all six would walk out alive. I mean, if we can not agree if "woman" can be used as adjective, in spite of the fact that Dictionaly.com and Merriam-Webster dictionary say so, what to say for more controversial issues?
This post has been proofread by a single monkey.
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For instance, the very term "black & white" photography reeks of racial segregation, hence my hope that the magnificent six will make sure it is replaced with, say, "monochromatic gray" photography. Even "color" photography is suspicious. Also, high time to tell Epson to get rid of its antiquated racial language, like "light black" and "light light black" (a thinly veiled, cruel joke at Michael Jackson's expense, perhaps?).
You're joking of course. Right?
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And you're joking of course. Right?
Nope. Or I'd have used ::) or something similar.
If the future of LuLa is a group who are going to nitpick about silly politically correct ways of expressing photo terms like Black and White or Light Light black, dog help us all!
You guys ready to argue about Grey or Gray?
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.... dog help us all!...
In (digital) dog we trust!
P.S. Where are the magnificent six to proofread Andrew's posts? ;)
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In (digital) dog we trust!
P.S. Where are the magnificent six to proofread Andrew's posts? ;)
No, different dog. Since I'm a 'none' I have more trust in dogs than the opposite spelling.
P.S. You are welcome to proof read and correct anything I've written. I'm more interested in the facts and aiding other's here than attempting prefect grammar of absurd text, something you often provide here. The bit about Black and White a prefect example IMHO.
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You're joking of course. Right?
I thought that the "single monkey" reference would be a dead giveaway, but apparently some people need smileys as well.
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What if a volunteer program were set up, where a small number (6?) lula members would proofread the article, prior to the official posting. The article could be emailed to these volunteers, and they would have 48 hours to offer corrections.
Interesting idea. Best to recruit two reviewers from US, and one each from UK, Canada, Australia, and South Africa. In case of a grammatical disagreement, four identical edits would be required to amend and release the article.
On the other hand, I'd rather see the article 48 hours earlier even at a risk of being exposed to a typo.
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The typos can cause a serious risk to health. The individuals who believe themselves to be "perfect" could, upon seeing one of these mistakes could get very upset and lash out at their nearest and dearest who could then retaliate in a fashion that means they would have to visit hospital and after treatment be forced to take leave of absence from work which will mean losing their job. In turn the family could be come destitute. All because they read the the word colour and thought it a typo instead of color not realising that colour is the English spelling and not the American spelling. Smiley added. ;D
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Regarding 'woman photographer' or 'female photographer' ...
There are no adjectives here. Each phrase is a compound noun.
https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/nouns-compound.htm
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Regarding 'woman photographer' or 'female photographer' ...
There are no adjectives here. Each phrase is a compound noun.
https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/nouns-compound.htm
Hopefully the forum administrator can make this a sticky? :D
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I'm sure the membership is eternally grateful.
In real life when I've stopped people being beaten up/attacked by bullies they are usually very grateful indeed.
However I don't expect any gratitude from similar behaviour online, because people so love misinterpret things that are written online and it's a wonderful haven for cowardly bullies.
As for people who talk nonsense online, they are about as interested in facts as those who talk nonsense in meat space are. *shrugs*.
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You guys ready to argue about Grey or Gray?
I think I have the solution for this most important issue. Hereafter the only acceptable spelling must be "Gr*y."
{-s m I l e y-}
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What shade Eric?
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... {-s m I l e y-}
You misspelled it, Eric. :P
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In the meantime if you see something that needs attention then drop me an email I'll see that it get corrected.
Yes, let's continue to hope that ordinary helpfulness is not too much to ask. Good luck!
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Everything looks good but the white backgrounds.
Images look better with dark backgrounds.
They don't have floodlights in theatres.
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Images look better with dark backgrounds.
+1
And I prefer reading white print on a dark grey background. Can't understand why some folks find that so horrible.
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Images look better with dark backgrounds.
Indeed! Much sexier. It makes them look also slimmer.
Photographing On Dark Background (https://books.google.ca/books?id=yPCFJDdMo7kC&pg=PT621&lpg=PT621&dq=photographing+women+on+dark+background&source=bl&ots=fVq4yBog3X&sig=z8KGGU4hgOHTcSfPkNnLcZgIEqI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mlDHVPmxAY3lsATb1oGoBg&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=photographing%20women%20on%20dark%20background&f=false)
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Indeed! Much sexier. It makes them look also slimmer.
Photographing On Dark Background (https://books.google.ca/books?id=yPCFJDdMo7kC&pg=PT621&lpg=PT621&dq=photographing+women+on+dark+background&source=bl&ots=fVq4yBog3X&sig=z8KGGU4hgOHTcSfPkNnLcZgIEqI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mlDHVPmxAY3lsATb1oGoBg&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=photographing%20women%20on%20dark%20background&f=false)
:)
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Regarding 'woman photographer' or 'female photographer' ...
There are no adjectives here. Each phrase is a compound noun.
While we are way off topic: no, the compound noun "woman photographer" would traditionally mean one who photographs women, as with "landscape photographer" and such. Try replacing "woman" by "man" to see how unorthodox this usage is -- but nevertheless it has become somewhat common to use "woman" as an adjective, notwithstanding the failure of many dictionaries to report this newfangled usage.
Back on topic: I too prefer viewing images with a mid-gray to black background, but am resigned to the overall preference for black text on white. Maybe photographs on the site should be surrounded with nice big black borders?
P. S. Should I complain about using apostrophes ['] where quotes ["] are called for, as if to avoid reaching for the shift key?
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I too prefer viewing images with a mid-gray to black background, but am resigned to the overall preference for black text on white. Maybe photographs on the site should be surrounded with nice big black borders?
+1
Thierry
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Unfortunately Kevin or Michael can't cater for every taste so it is pointless expressing your preferences. What pleases somebody pisses off someone else. Accept what they implement or go somewhere else? ::)
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Unfortunately Kevin or Michael can't cater for every taste so it is pointless expressing your preferences. What pleases somebody pisses off someone else. Accept what they implement or go somewhere else? ::)
Pointless!? Apparently it wasn't pointless for the black-on-white terrorists, as their incessant attacks managed to persuade LuLa to abandon its beautiful, eye-friendly, light gray-on-dark gray approach.
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An attempt at humour? If so you have lost me. :(
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An attempt at humour? If so you have lost me. :(
No, I am dead serious.
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Hi,
I would agree on that.
Best regards
Erik
Back on topic: I too prefer viewing images with a mid-gray to black background, but am resigned to the overall preference for black text on white. Maybe photographs on the site should be surrounded with nice big black borders?
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Expressing opinions and wishes to a service provider is always a good idea. Expecting them to implement them all is sure to disappoint.
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Expressing opinions and wishes to a service provider is always a good idea. Expecting them to implement them all is sure to disappoint.
No point in doing it if they are going to disappoint you? If this was a subscription site then there might be a point in making suggestions. One or two might be heeded if the owners thought they were going to lose subscribers/money? However being a free site then they can do what they please and the members will have to accept it or move on. If the owners do take on board some of the suggestions they may well never admit they did and some of the suggestions may coincide with their thinking? Personally I like what I see - it is free - and let them get on with it. :)
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If this was a subscription site then there might be a point in making suggestions. One or two might be heeded if the owners thought they were going to lose subscribers/money? However being a free site then they can do what they please and the members will have to accept it or move on. If the owners do take on board some of the suggestions they may well never admit they did and some of the suggestions may coincide with their thinking? Personally I like what I see - it is free - and let them get on with it. :)
+1, beautifully stated. We should all be grateful for the site we have and the site we'll get. Spell grey/gray and color any way you like Michael and Kevin.
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Errr, that was exactly my point. If you expected them to implement them you'd be disappointed...but there's always value in providing feedback, free or not.
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Thanks, but I'd rather leave the moderation of this site to the moderators rather than self appointed vigilantes. I'd also leave the policing of my street to the police.
Really!?! You would leave someone to be beaten to a pulp and do nothing when you could be of help. The quote....'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.'...springs to mind here.
Simply stopping someone you happen by from getting harmed further and then taking them to A+E to get is not being a vigilante, neither is disagreeing with some bullying nonsense online. I've also stopped to help a 'drunk' on the street who was actually someone going into a diabetic coma. Maybe I should have left him there to die too. ::)
As for site moderation, it barely happens here as people manage to carry on making abusive posts over long periods of time.
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No point in doing it if they are going to disappoint you? If this was a subscription site then there might be a point in making suggestions. One or two might be heeded if the owners thought they were going to lose subscribers/money? However being a free site then they can do what they please and the members will have to accept it or move on. If the owners do take on board some of the suggestions they may well never admit they did and some of the suggestions may coincide with their thinking? Personally I like what I see - it is free - and let them get on with it. :)
No business service is free. Subscription is simply one way of many for monetising a website, adverts, courses, trips, sponsors etc are other ways. All require customers to work however.
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Pointless!? Apparently it wasn't pointless for the black-on-white terrorists, as their incessant attacks managed to persuade LuLa to abandon its beautiful, eye-friendly, light gray-on-dark gray approach.
Now it's established you are serious....Eye friendly!! ??? Reverse text is not used by most sites because it is so dreadful to read.
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Now it's established you are serious....Eye friendly!! ??? Reverse text is not used by most sites because it is so dreadful to read.
Although strangely I find it okay on LL. It does give the site a distinctive feel too. I would not enjoy reading everything on the web reversed though.
Jim
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...Reverse text is not used by most sites because it is so dreadful to read.
Apparently, CNN missed your memo ;)
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One does not equal most ;)
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One does not equal most ;)
Perhaps, but weight compensates ;-) More people visit CNN and LuLa than "most" other sites.
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Perhaps, but weight compensates ;-) More people visit CNN and LuLa than "most" other sites.
Are you expecting the readership of LuLa to drop precipitously when the new, improved website is launched?
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Why would I expect that?
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Perhaps, but weight compensates ;-) More people visit CNN and LuLa than "most" other sites.
Bad use of [incorrectly guessed] statistics and logic there.
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Are you expecting the readership of LuLa to drop precipitously when the new, improved website is launched?
Err .. no .. I understood that the physics of perception would adjust themselves to the new readership statistics?
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Looks like our suggestions about the black backgrounds were ignored by Lula.
Maybe they're not so unlike Canon and Nikon themselves sometimes.
And maybe Canon and Nikon feel the same way about their comments as LuLa feels about the white (they call them grey, they're WHITE) backgrounds some of us pointed out to them.
BC
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There will not be black backgrounds. And, no white type. Based on the majority of feedback we have that was a good move and one requested for years.
The New site is what it is and we will now work on adding features and such that we couldn't have before for the benefits of our readers.
We still have to complete the NEW video section and then we have a list of other things that will be added.
I am always happy to hear about ideas to make the site better. The NEW Site is here though and we like it and it is our site and we enjoy sharing it with readers.
Kevin Raber
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As the person who has heard hundreds of complaints for some 15 years about our use of white text on black background, it pleases me no end to now receive complaints about our switch to the reverse.
My days are now complete. The universe is unfolding as it should,
M
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Looks like our suggestions about the black backgrounds were ignored by Lula.
Maybe they're not so unlike Canon and Nikon themselves sometimes.
And maybe Canon and Nikon feel the same way about their comments as LuLa feels about the white (they call them grey, they're WHITE) backgrounds some of us pointed out to them.
BC
To all of those who really feel that strongly about it, just create your own custom CSS to display the site the way you want it. In about 20 minutes I was able to hack together a respectable "dark theme", though it still has some little problems I need to work out. Numerous browser extensions are available to load your local customizations whenever you visit a LuLa page.
Try doing that to change the layout/style of your Canon/Nikon camera menus (Magic Lantern notwithstanding, to a certain extent)... :) ;D
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In the corner for dark on light:
Human Computer Interaction Legibility and Contrast (http://moodle.vgtu.lt/pluginfile.php/46360/mod_resource/content/0/Human_Computer_Interaction_Legibility_and_Contrast/04362786.pdf)
In the corner for light on dark:
American Institute for the Blind: Tips for Making Print more Readable (http://www.afb.org/info/living-with-vision-loss/reading-and-writing/making-print-more-readable/235) ... however their website is the inverse of what they suggest (for older people)!
Applying Colour Theory to Digital Displays (http://www.uxmatters.com/mt/archives/2007/01/applying-color-theory-to-digital-displays.php)
Why light text on a dark background is a bad idea (http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2008/10/13/why-light-text-on-dark-background-is-a-bad-idea/)
People with astigmatism (aproximately 50% of the population) find it harder to read white text on black than black text on white.
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In the corner for dark on light:
Human Computer Interaction Legibility and Contrast (http://moodle.vgtu.lt/pluginfile.php/46360/mod_resource/content/0/Human_Computer_Interaction_Legibility_and_Contrast/04362786.pdf)
In the corner for light on dark:
American Institute for the Blind: Tips for Making Print more Readable (http://www.afb.org/info/living-with-vision-loss/reading-and-writing/making-print-more-readable/235) ... however their website is the inverse of what they suggest (for older people)!
Applying Colour Theory to Digital Displays (http://www.uxmatters.com/mt/archives/2007/01/applying-color-theory-to-digital-displays.php)
Why light text on a dark background is a bad idea (http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2008/10/13/why-light-text-on-dark-background-is-a-bad-idea/)
People with astigmatism (aproximately 50% of the population) find it harder to read white text on black than black text on white.
So white on black is a good choice only for blind people. Hmmm ... wondering how many blind photographers there are ?
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In the corner for light on dark:
American Institute for the Blind: Tips for Making Print more Readable (http://www.afb.org/info/living-with-vision-loss/reading-and-writing/making-print-more-readable/235) ... however their website is the inverse of what they suggest (for older people)!
The only vote for light on dark there is guidelines for _printed_ media; the far higher contrast levels possible with screen displays probably render that part of the argument irrelevant. So having joined the astigmatic majority, I will now vote for dark on light! (Though tools like Apple's "Reader" mode usually gives me that option with a light-text-on-dark-background site.)
Note to JeremyRH: "vision impaired" usually does not mean "blind": as just noted, about half both the population has some relevant visual impairment, in the form of astigmatism. And by my guess at the average age of this forum's participants, probably more than half of us are "vision impaired".
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Note to JeremyRH: "vision impaired" usually does not mean "blind": as just noted, about half both the population has some relevant visual impairment, in the form of astigmatism. And by my guess at the average age of this forum's participants, probably more than half of us are "vision impaired".
Apologies to any visually impaired people - I did not intend to make light of your situation. However, the idea that half of the readers of this forum are visually impaired to the extent that the publishers should use by default the guidelines issued by the American Institute for the Blind seems a little unlikely to me.
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afaict most of the text on the new website is shown grey on a grey background -- the least legible option.
From here it's very dark grey/black on a light grey background and is very legible indeed. Easier on the eyes than pure black on pure white and waaaaay better than the previous reverse text.
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Do you have any evidence that less luminance contrast improves the accuracy and speed of reading?
Do you have any it doesn't? :P
Bear in mind the contrast/brightness ratio of a bright backlit screen is a quite different thing from say the printed page. So back text on white paper may have less contrast than black on light grey on a monitor.
Also pure black and pure white may be the most contrasting shades, but may not be optimum and may even be tiring for reading [online]. LuLa is [now] nicer to read than say Wikipedia.
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... more luminance contrast improves the accuracy and speed of reading.
Contrast and luminance is like medication: in proper doses, it helps. Too much, and it is a poison.
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This has been studied repeatedly; and studied repeatedly for screens.
The earth is round, the sky is blue, and more luminance contrast improves the accuracy and speed of reading.
You didn't actually bother to read my reply it would seem.
Slobodan got it though.
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And yet still missed the point(s).
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Bible studies? :P
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Great new design. Looked around for 30 mins or so. Love it. Congratulations. Then headed for the forum. Should I say I was surprised by the "nit" picking about luminance? Well, I wasn't ;-)