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Author Topic: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!  (Read 7955 times)

deanwork

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2015, 08:01:29 pm »

What is this paper look like? I have never tried it.

John

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TSJ1927

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2015, 08:28:30 pm »

John,  That's what I'm trying to get out of someone.  Is this an RC mat type paper?  What other papers is this paper similar to.  And why is it good for B&W.
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hugowolf

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2015, 10:26:59 pm »

This "wood-free" is from a .pdf sheet from Lexjet.


"HP Matte Litho-realistic Paper
An economical wood-free art paper that delivers
exceptional print results with the look, feel and longevity
of a heavy, matte offset paper. This natural white
paper enables short print runs for a wide variety
of content, enabling better customer service
while minimizing costs associated with set-up,
inventory and related scrap. This paper is an economical
alternative to high-end, smooth fine art
papers for cost-effective art reproductions."

I think that blurb is from the old paper. I don't think you can get an ISO brightness of that degree without OBAs.

Brian A
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2015, 09:32:09 am »

John,  That's what I'm trying to get out of someone.  Is this an RC mat type paper?  What other papers is this paper similar to.  And why is it good for B&W.

The old version was an alpha-cellulose based matte smooth (smoother than PhotoRag) paper and it had no PE or RC layers/barriers. On the warm side without OBA content; Lab 96.0 -0.1 2.7.

I have no sample of the new Matte Litho-Realistic but it wouldn't surprise me if HP has seen samples of the Innova IFA24 Decor Smooth Art 210 gsm and/or Felix Schoeller J22270 True Fibre Matt 200 gsm. The two nearly identical but different in the slight texture they have, the FS version texture is actually a bit nicer. The papers are not as smooth as the Matte Litho-Realistic I know. The paper white reflectance of them is higher than that of the old Matte Litho-Realistic and they are a bit more neutral; b 2.0 instead of 2.7. No OBA content either but in the first place a paper base that gives a higher white reflection than the Matte Litho-Realistic. Less opaque at 200-210 gsm but 270gsm would correct that. Smoother surface is easily achieved with some hot chrome rolls in the production.  German made says the HP label .............


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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William Chitham

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2015, 08:59:22 am »

Sorry Ernst, haven't seen any Lab numbers for the new version. I have tried the Innova IFA24 and I have to disagree with you about similarity to Matte Litho. It has a much flmsier feel but the main difference is the texture - Matte Litho just doesn't have any! I can best describe it as looking like perfectly smooth plaster of paris, indeed if you scratch at the surface it behaves as if the surface is made plaster or clay and when you cut it you get a very fine powder from the edge.



I have no sample of the new Matte Litho-Realistic but it wouldn't surprise me if HP has seen samples of the Innova IFA24 Decor Smooth Art 210 gsm and/or Felix Schoeller J22270 True Fibre Matt 200 gsm. The two nearly identical but different in the slight texture they have, the FS version texture is actually a bit nicer. The papers are not as smooth as the Matte Litho-Realistic I know. The paper white reflectance of them is higher than that of the old Matte Litho-Realistic and they are a bit more neutral; b 2.0 instead of 2.7. No OBA content either but in the first place a paper base that gives a higher white reflection than the Matte Litho-Realistic. Less opaque at 200-210 gsm but 270gsm would correct that. Smoother surface is easily achieved with some hot chrome rolls in the production.  German made says the HP label .............
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2015, 07:14:05 am »

Anyone in Europe who has ordered and received it already?

Damir?

Plenty of distributors mentioned, the paper is made in Germany but there is no dealer that has it stocked right now.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2015, 09:11:53 am »

I have it and have had problems with it.  Nothing like the original.  Super high white point.  RC feeling.
Using original Litho profile cockled terribly.  Custom profile off the litho base cockled terribly.

HP guys via IT Supplies made me a custom profile, and definitely better, but this is not your daddy's Matte Litho Realistic any more.

Not terrible but not great like it used to be.

YMMV FWIW
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2015, 09:44:34 am »

Mark, thank you,

I found a supplier in the UK but wait for the shipment price. Given your experience this will not be the solution then, I already have the Innova IFA24 which being thinner cockles too but has a similar image quality compared to the old ML-R, slightly more texture. Better find a third party alternative then near 270 grams. Rauch's Mediajet Litho was proposed as a substitute but I guess it comes close to the IFA24 and is just 230 grams.

RC? Could you cut a 5 mm wide strip of say 6 cm long. Split in between the surfaces with a knife, put in a glass of hot water and pull the surfaces further apart, stretch each part to see whether it has any polymer barrier or even PE foil in between? Scratching the wet paper fiber off the splits with a nail does the same.

Another nice paper lost in transformation I guess. Checked Aardenburg-Imaging yesterday for the longest lasting tests (260 hrs) + best results and it is nice to see that the Canon Heavyweight Satin Photographic RC 300 gsm is the only and best RC paper in the top ranking but sad to know that it is no longer made. My hopes are on the Epson Proofing White Semi-Matte but that one is just at 20 hrs but scoring better within that period than the Canon HW. A slightly cooler variety like the Canon HW next to it and the RC side would have been covered for me.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots


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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2015, 11:06:23 am »

Found a 24" roll of the old quality somewhere in stock so I can satisfy at least one customer. I see some old larger rolls go for absurd prices, 3x the original price.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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jferrari

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2015, 02:59:27 pm »

Cockling is unbelievable with lots of headstrikes because of that.

I think you guys just like saying "cockling!" ;D
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2015, 03:42:50 pm »

I think you guys just like saying "cockling!" ;D

Yeah like Salsa on Seinfeld.  But man you can not believe just how terrible the cockling is.  It's as though running a paper towel through the printer and putting too much ink on it.

Once I got my custom HP profile, much better, but still, IMHO this paper should NOT be called
HP Matte Litho Realistic.  A shame.  A real shame.

Cockle-rama.
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Mark Lindquist
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2015, 04:27:03 pm »

Mark, thank you,

I found a supplier in the UK but wait for the shipment price. Given your experience this will not be the solution then, I already have the Innova IFA24 which being thinner cockles too but has a similar image quality compared to the old ML-R, slightly more texture. Better find a third party alternative then near 270 grams. Rauch's Mediajet Litho was proposed as a substitute but I guess it comes close to the IFA24 and is just 230 grams.

RC? Could you cut a 5 mm wide strip of say 6 cm long. Split in between the surfaces with a knife, put in a glass of hot water and pull the surfaces further apart, stretch each part to see whether it has any polymer barrier or even PE foil in between? Scratching the wet paper fiber off the splits with a nail does the same.

Another nice paper lost in transformation I guess. Checked Aardenburg-Imaging yesterday for the longest lasting tests (260 hrs) + best results and it is nice to see that the Canon Heavyweight Satin Photographic RC 300 gsm is the only and best RC paper in the top ranking but sad to know that it is no longer made. My hopes are on the Epson Proofing White Semi-Matte but that one is just at 20 hrs but scoring better within that period than the Canon HW. A slightly cooler variety like the Canon HW next to it and the RC side would have been covered for me.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots


Ernst,

I did your experiment.  First I ripped the paper length wise to be able to separate the layers.  I boiled the paper and was able to pull off a layer that represented 1/3 the thickness of the paper, and that was semi-translucent.  No  foil or PE that I could tell.  Ultimately, the consistency front to back was the same, as though pulp.  I may have misjudged about the RC.  The paper has a very smooth surface front and back, and that is perhaps what threw me off.  I further scraped the paper with a knife, and apparently nothing in layers.

All in all, a consistency, hard to discern with such rudimentary tools and techniques, however take it as you will if it is of any help.

-Mark
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David Sutton

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2015, 05:20:00 pm »

As a result of this thread I ordered a roll a bit over a month ago from B&H in the US. It arrived in NZ within a week.
I profiled it with a Spyder 3, which is better than nothing and greatly improved the shadow detail.
I've been using it on the ipf6300 for a b&w print done in colour mode with a small amount of toning in the shadows.  It seems a very good heavyweight paper. Not as white as Somerset Museum Rag but with a similar smooth surface, which I like. It remains to be seen how much detail it will show in comparison.
I wouldn't have thought so looking at the paper, but under some light it it is definitely cooler once printed than SMR.
At the price I think it will be worth keeping it in stock and playing with for bit.
David
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2015, 05:55:53 pm »

Ernst,

I did your experiment.  First I ripped the paper length wise to be able to separate the layers.  I boiled the paper and was able to pull off a layer that represented 1/3 the thickness of the paper, and that was semi-translucent.  No  foil or PE that I could tell.  Ultimately, the consistency front to back was the same, as though pulp.  I may have misjudged about the RC.  The paper has a very smooth surface front and back, and that is perhaps what threw me off.  I further scraped the paper with a knife, and apparently nothing in layers.

All in all, a consistency, hard to discern with such rudimentary tools and techniques, however take it as you will if it is of any help.

-Mark

As an RC at that weight it would not cockle(?) too so your observation must be correct. Thank you for the test. At least they did not make an RC paper of it.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Damir

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2015, 12:04:38 pm »

Sorry I was absent from forum for some time.

Fortunatelly I still have stock of old MLR - several rolls are still on my shelf. Therefore I wasn't place an order of new paper.

Reading what others have to say about replacement I will start to use oald paper with much greater care.
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William Chitham

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2015, 04:45:22 am »

I have it and have had problems with it.  Nothing like the original.  Super high white point.  RC feeling.
Using original Litho profile cockled terribly.  Custom profile off the litho base cockled terribly.

HP guys via IT Supplies made me a custom profile, and definitely better, but this is not your daddy's Matte Litho Realistic any more.

Not terrible but not great like it used to be.

YMMV FWIW
Hi Mark, your experience is so far different to mine that I can't believe we are looking at the same paper. I had a sample and have bought a roll since and the only significant difference is that it is whiter. I had perfectly acceptable results printing tests on a z3200 with the old preset and profile; I made a new profile and have printed a couple of jobs on it since with no sign of cockling or anything else untoward. I wonder if there are some dud rolls about, maybe a pre production batch or something? My roll is marked "K6B77A Lot: X144440001" inside the roll core and on the box label.
William.
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huguito

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2015, 01:47:30 pm »

What's cockling?
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hugowolf

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2015, 02:06:11 pm »

What's cockling?

The undulations due to excess ink going down. Similar to the affect of spilling coffee or water on a sheet of office paper. It is no longer planar.

Brian A
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2015, 07:27:16 pm »

Hi Mark, your experience is so far different to mine that I can't believe we are looking at the same paper. I had a sample and have bought a roll since and the only significant difference is that it is whiter. I had perfectly acceptable results printing tests on a z3200 with the old preset and profile; I made a new profile and have printed a couple of jobs on it since with no sign of cockling or anything else untoward. I wonder if there are some dud rolls about, maybe a pre production batch or something? My roll is marked "K6B77A Lot: X144440001" inside the roll core and on the box label.
William.

You could be right William.  Some say terrible, some say fine, so it could be a batch issue.  I'm hesitant to spend a bunch of money to find out again.  My original profile based on the resident Z preset was intolerable.  After HP made the new profile it was better, but is still cockling a certain amount no matter.  The photo shows the cockling, and granted it is an image with a lot of ink. 

Mark

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Damir

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Re: HP Matte Litho is back...wider...3"core!
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2015, 04:00:31 pm »

Any news about new Matte Litho?

My stock of original one is nearly gone therefore I need to order some kind of replacement.
I just got one roll of Zentih Photo Matt paper, only 180 g but from printers that was using it in the past I got information that this paper is as close to MLR as it can be. I will make some test during the weekend to check it.

What about HP Super Heavyweight Plus Matte and HP Premium Matte Photo Paper??
Any experience with those two?
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