Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Roscolo on January 08, 2015, 01:24:09 pm
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Great paper that was impossible to get for the last few months is back. And now in 44" and 60" width (finally!)...and now on 3" core. You're welcome.
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What do you print on that stuff? Tell us about it.
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I can tell you b&w looks really nice!
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What do you print on that stuff? Tell us about it.
Repros of artwork, and photos. Customers love it. But it disappeared for a few months...couldn't get it anywhere. And it has never been available in 44" and 60" widths or 3" core until now.
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I prefer the 2 inch core. I have to use an adapter for 3. Its a pain to swap cores.
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You will hate 2" cores when you get near the end of HP Matte Litho-Realistic. Also consider the purchase of some extra spindles + 3" adapters. Wasting less time in loading the papers you most often use.
Thanks Roscolo.
Someone at HP still listens to customer's complaints.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Good looking out Ernst. I forgot the curling issues!
I have the adapters and 2 spindles. The 3" cores on adapters get stuck! I normally wear cotton gloves, but still need to be very careful to not damage the paper.
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You will hate 2" cores when you get near the end of HP Matte Litho-Realistic. Also consider the purchase of some extra spindles + 3" adapters. Wasting less time in loading the papers you most often use.
Thanks Roscolo.
Someone at HP still listens to customer's complaints.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
^ +1
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I have the adapters and 2 spindles. The 3" cores on adapters get stuck! I normally wear cotton gloves, but still need to be very careful to not damage the paper.
Pull the roll off the fixed end of the spindle, then use the end of the spindle to knock the stuck adapter out of the roll. Easy when you know how.
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"Easy when you know how"
Its all relative. I haven't dealt with 3" cores. Anyone who has can say it is easy. But I understand how you do it. I'll give it a shot, as I have a Pro Satin on 3" soon to be used .
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Great paper that was impossible to get for the last few months is back. And now in 44" and 60" width (finally!)...and now on 3" core. You're welcome.
Yeeeeaaaaa!!! :D :D
My favorite paper
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What do you print on that stuff? Tell us about it.
Almost everything, 95% of my printing is on Matte Litho - all my customer like it.
Black and white on Z 3100 is fantanstic on Matte Litho!
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Sounds great... but I haven't found where to buy since it's not on Amazon and the new HP store is virtually useless.
Can you help with a supplier address? (Not sure if I can ask that... I'm new here.)
Also, in adding 3" adapters to a spindle, are two required?
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itsupplies.com has it. Give them a big hug for me.
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Just a quick note to say I've tried the new stuff and find it pretty much indistinguishable from the old except that for being slightly whiter. It still has that lovely smooth surface though, still 30m on a roll and still nice and cheap! I tried it with the old profile and calibration on my z3200 and it looked fine, then recalibrated and reprofiled and the test print looks near enough identical. It is a shame about the whiteness change as I have a client I do portfolio prints for very regularly and the new ones won't quite match the old but otherwise I'm delighted to have it back and the 3" cores and extra width are very welcome indeed.
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Specs say no wood base. Is this a matt RC poly based media? How's the residual curl? Thanks
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Specs say no wood base. Is this a matt RC poly based media? How's the residual curl? Thanks
Curl seems as you'd expect ie better than before because of the larger core. Where did you get the idea it isn't wood based? Specs lifted from my supplier website are very similar to the old stuff (although they have changed the test method for brightness & opacity) except whiteness which is up from 75 to 95:
Core Size - 3" (75mm)
Thickness - 12.1 mil / 307 microns per ISO 536
Brightness - 95% per TAPPI T-452 Test Method
Weight, Metric - 269 g/m2 per ISO 536 Test Method
Opacity - Greater than 98% per TAPPI T-425 Test Method
Whiteness - 95 per ISO 11475 Test Method
Country of Origin - Made in Germany
Gloss Level - Matte
Primary Material - Wood fiber
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William,
Any Lab value mentioned for the paper white? I really wonder if this version is not manufactured by Felix Schoeller and has some resemblance to one of its products, weight may be different though. I have to check whether the 44" - 3" cores are already available here.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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The "eggshell" white was kinda what I liked about it. Hmmm. Is it now considered simply bond vs Fine Art paper ? :-P
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This "wood-free" is from a .pdf sheet from Lexjet.
"HP Matte Litho-realistic Paper
An economical wood-free art paper that delivers
exceptional print results with the look, feel and longevity
of a heavy, matte offset paper. This natural white
paper enables short print runs for a wide variety
of content, enabling better customer service
while minimizing costs associated with set-up,
inventory and related scrap. This paper is an economical
alternative to high-end, smooth fine art
papers for cost-effective art reproductions."
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What is this paper look like? I have never tried it.
John
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John, That's what I'm trying to get out of someone. Is this an RC mat type paper? What other papers is this paper similar to. And why is it good for B&W.
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This "wood-free" is from a .pdf sheet from Lexjet.
"HP Matte Litho-realistic Paper
An economical wood-free art paper that delivers
exceptional print results with the look, feel and longevity
of a heavy, matte offset paper. This natural white
paper enables short print runs for a wide variety
of content, enabling better customer service
while minimizing costs associated with set-up,
inventory and related scrap. This paper is an economical
alternative to high-end, smooth fine art
papers for cost-effective art reproductions."
I think that blurb is from the old paper. I don't think you can get an ISO brightness of that degree without OBAs.
Brian A
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John, That's what I'm trying to get out of someone. Is this an RC mat type paper? What other papers is this paper similar to. And why is it good for B&W.
The old version was an alpha-cellulose based matte smooth (smoother than PhotoRag) paper and it had no PE or RC layers/barriers. On the warm side without OBA content; Lab 96.0 -0.1 2.7.
I have no sample of the new Matte Litho-Realistic but it wouldn't surprise me if HP has seen samples of the Innova IFA24 Decor Smooth Art 210 gsm and/or Felix Schoeller J22270 True Fibre Matt 200 gsm. The two nearly identical but different in the slight texture they have, the FS version texture is actually a bit nicer. The papers are not as smooth as the Matte Litho-Realistic I know. The paper white reflectance of them is higher than that of the old Matte Litho-Realistic and they are a bit more neutral; b 2.0 instead of 2.7. No OBA content either but in the first place a paper base that gives a higher white reflection than the Matte Litho-Realistic. Less opaque at 200-210 gsm but 270gsm would correct that. Smoother surface is easily achieved with some hot chrome rolls in the production. German made says the HP label .............
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Sorry Ernst, haven't seen any Lab numbers for the new version. I have tried the Innova IFA24 and I have to disagree with you about similarity to Matte Litho. It has a much flmsier feel but the main difference is the texture - Matte Litho just doesn't have any! I can best describe it as looking like perfectly smooth plaster of paris, indeed if you scratch at the surface it behaves as if the surface is made plaster or clay and when you cut it you get a very fine powder from the edge.
I have no sample of the new Matte Litho-Realistic but it wouldn't surprise me if HP has seen samples of the Innova IFA24 Decor Smooth Art 210 gsm and/or Felix Schoeller J22270 True Fibre Matt 200 gsm. The two nearly identical but different in the slight texture they have, the FS version texture is actually a bit nicer. The papers are not as smooth as the Matte Litho-Realistic I know. The paper white reflectance of them is higher than that of the old Matte Litho-Realistic and they are a bit more neutral; b 2.0 instead of 2.7. No OBA content either but in the first place a paper base that gives a higher white reflection than the Matte Litho-Realistic. Less opaque at 200-210 gsm but 270gsm would correct that. Smoother surface is easily achieved with some hot chrome rolls in the production. German made says the HP label .............
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Anyone in Europe who has ordered and received it already?
Damir?
Plenty of distributors mentioned, the paper is made in Germany but there is no dealer that has it stocked right now.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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I have it and have had problems with it. Nothing like the original. Super high white point. RC feeling.
Using original Litho profile cockled terribly. Custom profile off the litho base cockled terribly.
HP guys via IT Supplies made me a custom profile, and definitely better, but this is not your daddy's Matte Litho Realistic any more.
Not terrible but not great like it used to be.
YMMV FWIW
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Mark, thank you,
I found a supplier in the UK but wait for the shipment price. Given your experience this will not be the solution then, I already have the Innova IFA24 which being thinner cockles too but has a similar image quality compared to the old ML-R, slightly more texture. Better find a third party alternative then near 270 grams. Rauch's Mediajet Litho was proposed as a substitute but I guess it comes close to the IFA24 and is just 230 grams.
RC? Could you cut a 5 mm wide strip of say 6 cm long. Split in between the surfaces with a knife, put in a glass of hot water and pull the surfaces further apart, stretch each part to see whether it has any polymer barrier or even PE foil in between? Scratching the wet paper fiber off the splits with a nail does the same.
Another nice paper lost in transformation I guess. Checked Aardenburg-Imaging yesterday for the longest lasting tests (260 hrs) + best results and it is nice to see that the Canon Heavyweight Satin Photographic RC 300 gsm is the only and best RC paper in the top ranking but sad to know that it is no longer made. My hopes are on the Epson Proofing White Semi-Matte but that one is just at 20 hrs but scoring better within that period than the Canon HW. A slightly cooler variety like the Canon HW next to it and the RC side would have been covered for me.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Found a 24" roll of the old quality somewhere in stock so I can satisfy at least one customer. I see some old larger rolls go for absurd prices, 3x the original price.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Cockling is unbelievable with lots of headstrikes because of that.
I think you guys just like saying "cockling!" ;D
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I think you guys just like saying "cockling!" ;D
Yeah like Salsa on Seinfeld. But man you can not believe just how terrible the cockling is. It's as though running a paper towel through the printer and putting too much ink on it.
Once I got my custom HP profile, much better, but still, IMHO this paper should NOT be called
HP Matte Litho Realistic. A shame. A real shame.
Cockle-rama.
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Mark, thank you,
I found a supplier in the UK but wait for the shipment price. Given your experience this will not be the solution then, I already have the Innova IFA24 which being thinner cockles too but has a similar image quality compared to the old ML-R, slightly more texture. Better find a third party alternative then near 270 grams. Rauch's Mediajet Litho was proposed as a substitute but I guess it comes close to the IFA24 and is just 230 grams.
RC? Could you cut a 5 mm wide strip of say 6 cm long. Split in between the surfaces with a knife, put in a glass of hot water and pull the surfaces further apart, stretch each part to see whether it has any polymer barrier or even PE foil in between? Scratching the wet paper fiber off the splits with a nail does the same.
Another nice paper lost in transformation I guess. Checked Aardenburg-Imaging yesterday for the longest lasting tests (260 hrs) + best results and it is nice to see that the Canon Heavyweight Satin Photographic RC 300 gsm is the only and best RC paper in the top ranking but sad to know that it is no longer made. My hopes are on the Epson Proofing White Semi-Matte but that one is just at 20 hrs but scoring better within that period than the Canon HW. A slightly cooler variety like the Canon HW next to it and the RC side would have been covered for me.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Ernst,
I did your experiment. First I ripped the paper length wise to be able to separate the layers. I boiled the paper and was able to pull off a layer that represented 1/3 the thickness of the paper, and that was semi-translucent. No foil or PE that I could tell. Ultimately, the consistency front to back was the same, as though pulp. I may have misjudged about the RC. The paper has a very smooth surface front and back, and that is perhaps what threw me off. I further scraped the paper with a knife, and apparently nothing in layers.
All in all, a consistency, hard to discern with such rudimentary tools and techniques, however take it as you will if it is of any help.
-Mark
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As a result of this thread I ordered a roll a bit over a month ago from B&H in the US. It arrived in NZ within a week.
I profiled it with a Spyder 3, which is better than nothing and greatly improved the shadow detail.
I've been using it on the ipf6300 for a b&w print done in colour mode with a small amount of toning in the shadows. It seems a very good heavyweight paper. Not as white as Somerset Museum Rag but with a similar smooth surface, which I like. It remains to be seen how much detail it will show in comparison.
I wouldn't have thought so looking at the paper, but under some light it it is definitely cooler once printed than SMR.
At the price I think it will be worth keeping it in stock and playing with for bit.
David
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Ernst,
I did your experiment. First I ripped the paper length wise to be able to separate the layers. I boiled the paper and was able to pull off a layer that represented 1/3 the thickness of the paper, and that was semi-translucent. No foil or PE that I could tell. Ultimately, the consistency front to back was the same, as though pulp. I may have misjudged about the RC. The paper has a very smooth surface front and back, and that is perhaps what threw me off. I further scraped the paper with a knife, and apparently nothing in layers.
All in all, a consistency, hard to discern with such rudimentary tools and techniques, however take it as you will if it is of any help.
-Mark
As an RC at that weight it would not cockle(?) too so your observation must be correct. Thank you for the test. At least they did not make an RC paper of it.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Sorry I was absent from forum for some time.
Fortunatelly I still have stock of old MLR - several rolls are still on my shelf. Therefore I wasn't place an order of new paper.
Reading what others have to say about replacement I will start to use oald paper with much greater care.
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I have it and have had problems with it. Nothing like the original. Super high white point. RC feeling.
Using original Litho profile cockled terribly. Custom profile off the litho base cockled terribly.
HP guys via IT Supplies made me a custom profile, and definitely better, but this is not your daddy's Matte Litho Realistic any more.
Not terrible but not great like it used to be.
YMMV FWIW
Hi Mark, your experience is so far different to mine that I can't believe we are looking at the same paper. I had a sample and have bought a roll since and the only significant difference is that it is whiter. I had perfectly acceptable results printing tests on a z3200 with the old preset and profile; I made a new profile and have printed a couple of jobs on it since with no sign of cockling or anything else untoward. I wonder if there are some dud rolls about, maybe a pre production batch or something? My roll is marked "K6B77A Lot: X144440001" inside the roll core and on the box label.
William.
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What's cockling?
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What's cockling?
The undulations due to excess ink going down. Similar to the affect of spilling coffee or water on a sheet of office paper. It is no longer planar.
Brian A
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Hi Mark, your experience is so far different to mine that I can't believe we are looking at the same paper. I had a sample and have bought a roll since and the only significant difference is that it is whiter. I had perfectly acceptable results printing tests on a z3200 with the old preset and profile; I made a new profile and have printed a couple of jobs on it since with no sign of cockling or anything else untoward. I wonder if there are some dud rolls about, maybe a pre production batch or something? My roll is marked "K6B77A Lot: X144440001" inside the roll core and on the box label.
William.
You could be right William. Some say terrible, some say fine, so it could be a batch issue. I'm hesitant to spend a bunch of money to find out again. My original profile based on the resident Z preset was intolerable. After HP made the new profile it was better, but is still cockling a certain amount no matter. The photo shows the cockling, and granted it is an image with a lot of ink.
Mark
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Any news about new Matte Litho?
My stock of original one is nearly gone therefore I need to order some kind of replacement.
I just got one roll of Zentih Photo Matt paper, only 180 g but from printers that was using it in the past I got information that this paper is as close to MLR as it can be. I will make some test during the weekend to check it.
What about HP Super Heavyweight Plus Matte and HP Premium Matte Photo Paper??
Any experience with those two?
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Anyone in Europe who has ordered and received it already?
Damir?
Plenty of distributors mentioned, the paper is made in Germany but there is no dealer that has it stocked right now.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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My roll that I bought in the UK about 3 weeks ago is made in Switzerland as stated on the box.
Brian
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There is no box of the old Matte Litho-Realistic here anymore so I can not check the country. It may be handy if we all write down the HP article number + the country of origin in this thread. There is still old stock around like the 24" roll I ordered two months ago, article number Q7972A. Damir may have some older boxes to verify the manufacturing country.
Edit; Global Brand Management that has taken over HP's media distribution says "Made in Germany" for this paper; K6B77A, K6B78A, K6B80A, K6B82A article numbers.
http://www.globalbmg.com/hp/en/hp-matte-litho-realistic-paper
And this one says Zwitserland for an old version, see article number;
http://icecat.biz/p/hp/q7972a/art-paper-Matte+Litho-realistic+610+mm+x+30.5+m+-24+in+x+100+ft-542285.html
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Ernst,
I was incorrect about Switzerland being where it is made. That was my old box of Matte Litho but my new one states it's made in Germany and their product number is K6B77A for the 24 inch roll.
Best,
Brian
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Ernst
Q7972A Product of Switzerand
same as your old roll
All together I have 4 rolls left, two of them will keep for my own photos, two will be used for customer photos :(