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Author Topic: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum  (Read 37095 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2014, 03:40:27 pm »

Thanks a lot Jim,

It is not just about Synn. I guess that I am a bit negative about MFD and some readers don't appreciate that. Actually, I am not that negative about MFD, but I feel that it is an expensive technology that needs to be put in a perspective.

There is a great forum at DPReview on "Photographic Science and Technology", I could join that, but I would miss a lot of very nice people here.

Best regards
Erik

Erik, this makes no sense to me at all. If Synn doesn't want to see your posts, there is already a mechanism he can use  to effectuate that (and no one is forcing him to respond to them). Many of the rest of us, me included, do want to see your posts. By leaving, you would deprive us of that privilege.

Jim
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Paul2660

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2014, 05:03:02 pm »

Thanks a lot Jim,

It is not just about Synn. I guess that I am a bit negative about MFD and some readers don't appreciate that. Actually, I am not that negative about MFD, but I feel that it is an expensive technology that needs to be put in a perspective.

There is a great forum at DPReview on "Photographic Science and Technology", I could join that, but I would miss a lot of very nice people here.

Best regards
Erik


Hello Eric:

I think you may have taken the post a bit to seriously.  You have a long and excellent history on this site, and great contributions.  I would not consider leaving. 

Tech and photography to me go hand in hand, especially with digital.  Sure it's easy to get caught up in the tech side, but that's just part of it.  I also agree with your point about price points, but I don't feel much will change, as the total sales are much smaller for the entire MF lineup. 

It's up to the moderators to handle issue where a post may be going off the area where it should be, and they seem to do this well. 

I for one hope you plan to stay around and continue to contribute as I hope so will Synn, as both you offer great viewpoints.

Paul

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peterv

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2014, 06:10:59 pm »

Another vote for you to stay on this board, Erik. Your posts are much appreciated.

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EricWHiss

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2014, 06:17:06 pm »

I'm with Synn on this one.  :o
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peterv

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #84 on: November 28, 2014, 06:36:16 pm »

I'm with Synn on this one.  :o

Eric, nobody is stopping you or Syn to start artistic threads. I'm sure that if you ask in header something like 'no tech-talk' you will not be bothered with some technician telling you we need more technology threads.

I really don't see the problem.

Edit: I don't even think the 'no tech-talk' sign would be necessary to not be interrupted be engineers every other post. Just a matter of courtesy.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 06:45:31 pm by peterv »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2014, 07:05:56 pm »

Peter,
The LuLa forums used to be well populated with seasoned photographers and some pro's whose goals seemed to be more directed at working around problems, sharing tricks, and experiences and anecdotal stories.  Overall I learned a lot about how to make better images and what gear was good, etc.    Now there are one or two posters that tie up every thread, artistic or not, with long winded posts with lots of charts and other stuff to prove exactly what?  Probably only to show what they know or think they know to the rest of the world in a very pedantic and selfish way.  As and example some years back when the topic of color aliasing came up, it was always about how to work around it - such as stopping down, stepping back, caprock filters and so on.  It wasn't about who was right and charts and stuff, it was about getting images made and making good images.   I really miss those days here.    I post my images elsewhere since there is no reward for posting here. 
Eric
 
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peterv

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2014, 07:22:24 pm »

Eric, I remember those days and you're right that there seemed to be more working photographers with practical solutions, back then. I miss those days too, though I think those were different times, where digital photography was relatively new ground and there was a much greater demand for practical knowledge. Where all those people have gone, I don't know. I just don't believe they've all been chased away by the technology oriented threads of late.

Kind regards,

Peter
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2014, 07:30:44 pm »

... Now there are one or two posters that tie up every thread, artistic or not, with long winded posts with lots of charts and other stuff to prove exactly what?  Probably only to show what they know or think they know to the rest of the world in a very pedantic and selfish way.

Knowing at least one of those posters, I can assure you that boasting is the last thing on their mind. Sharing their findings, with the intention to help others, is the opposite of selfish, I would say.

Quote
...  As and example some years back when the topic of color aliasing came up, it was always about how to work around it - such as stopping down, stepping back, caprock filters and so on.  It wasn't about who was right and charts and stuff, it was about getting images made and making good images...

And how do we find "how to work around it" if we do not understand the problem first? Sometimes a working pro might stumble on a practical solution, and that is fine. However, charts and a deeper technical analysis often can and do contribute to practical solutions just as well. People absorb information and learn in different ways. Some prefer verbal explanation, some visual. Some intuitively grasp a graph better, some need an actual mage. So what is wrong with providing both?

Some photographers have no clue how cameras work, beyond which button to press, yet produce stunning visuals. Good for them, and my hat off to them. Yet a great deal of us chose photography precisely because it combines technical skills and visual artistry. I, for one, enjoy both. Sometimes the technical part is beyond my comprehension or interest, and that is fine, I just skip or skim it. But that is not much different from the esthetic part either: some of those are not my cup of tea, so I skip or skim them too.

synn

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2014, 07:41:32 pm »

I did NOT as Erik or anyone else to leave the forum
Rather, I was requesting a special playground for them where they can go chart crazy all they want.

I am sure people who want to read upon technical matters would appreciate the ease of finding such threads and some working photographer looking for tips and tricks or some newbie looking for buying advise would appreciate not having to swim through 8 pages of useless answers.


Before anyone jumps and bites at the last bit, try to recollect how many of the newbies who post here for advise come back after the thread completely dissolves into chaos after page 2.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 07:46:41 pm by synn »
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eronald

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2014, 07:44:24 pm »


P.s. Edmund, I believe the camera was created by people who spent hours setting them up for the perfect shot and even more hours post processing the shot in the darkroom. Maybe french schools taught history differently.

I agree. Here in Europe, people used to spend a lot of time in the dark room setting up the perfect perspective.

Edmund
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 07:47:13 pm by eronald »
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Willow Photography

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2014, 08:21:00 pm »

Peter,
The LuLa forums used to be well populated with seasoned photographers and some pro's whose goals seemed to be more directed at working around problems, sharing tricks, and experiences and anecdotal stories.  Overall I learned a lot about how to make better images and what gear was good, etc.    Now there are one or two posters that tie up every thread, artistic or not, with long winded posts with lots of charts and other stuff to prove exactly what?  Probably only to show what they know or think they know to the rest of the world in a very pedantic and selfish way.  As and example some years back when the topic of color aliasing came up, it was always about how to work around it - such as stopping down, stepping back, caprock filters and so on.  It wasn't about who was right and charts and stuff, it was about getting images made and making good images.   I really miss those days here.    I post my images elsewhere since there is no reward for posting here. 
Eric
 

+1
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2014, 03:05:18 am »

Hi,

I don't think that the persons you mention post a lot on artistic threads. I don't comment on 'pedantic and selfish' part

Now one forces anyone to read threads they are not interested in. You can also ignore data, charts or facts that contradicts your opinion. You are free to comment on any thread, of course, but then I don't think you should deny the right to do so to others.

Best regards
Erik
Quote
… Now there are one or two posters that tie up every thread, artistic or not, with long winded posts with lots of charts and other stuff to prove exactly what?  Probably only to show what they know or think they know to the rest of the world in a very pedantic and selfish way.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:16:14 am by ErikKaffehr »
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Scotty-S

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2014, 03:47:48 am »

I did NOT as Erik or anyone else to leave the forum
Rather, I was requesting a special playground for them where they can go chart crazy all they want.

I am sure people who want to read upon technical matters would appreciate the ease of finding such threads and some working photographer looking for tips and tricks or some newbie looking for buying advise would appreciate not having to swim through 8 pages of useless answers.


Before anyone jumps and bites at the last bit, try to recollect how many of the newbies who post here for advise come back after the thread completely dissolves into chaos after page 2.

I agree with you on that.  I rarely post here and I am a 645z shooter hobbyist but find that there is very little to learn here because of all the too-much-tech talk.  Threads to get over-run with it.

Also, I think that the 35mm vs MF is an old topic and should never be brought up here.  We have purchased MF because its what we want to use and I don't need to hear about how good the D800 is and how MF is too expensive in comparison. 
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Theodoros

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2014, 04:13:39 am »

Don't know how this all came down to tech talk or not... Clearly, the problem was never that, it rather is having the same "test" posted hundreds of times, in handreds of different threads and the insist to dominate them... The other clear problem is having some people looking at a (questionable IMO) "test" which applies (or not) for a particular kind of photography and considering that it's the only kind of photography that there is... (which of course is far from truth with MF).
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synn

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2014, 04:17:12 am »

Hi,

I don't think that the persons you mention post a lot on artistic threads. I don't comment on 'pedantic and selfish' part

Now one forces anyone to read threads they are not interested in. You can also ignore data, charts or facts that contradicts your opinion. You are free to comment on any thread, of course, but then I don't think you should deny the right to do so to others.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

It's not as simple as "don't read the posts you are not interested in". If so, you are free to ignore all posts that complain about too much tech talk, including this thread.

The problem is, every thread turns into the same tired old discussion. People open new threads with the expectation to read/enjoy/learn something new and switch their minds off from it and let you guys run that thread to the ground.

Look at the post counts of you and the rest of the tech gang. It's several times higher than that of those who post more on the qualitative level of photography. Be honest to yourself and say just how many of them were relevant to the original thread topic.

The tech folk are ganging up on me and suggesting that this is some sort of personal vendetta for me etc. Not at all. I couldn't care less about how many feather comparison posts you guys make. Rather, I am trying to raise the quality of the forum and to stimulate the discussion of some new topics for a change. Not once did I say "stop discussing your tech" as most of you suggest. Rather, it's more of "keep your tech related talk in its own section and let the other threads have a chance to progress into discussions that are topical to the thread titles".

Lastly, to address the ad hominem attack, I contribute regularly in terms of images and aspects of medium format photography such as the handling of the cameras in the real world, post processing tips, color management and so on. I believe that these are more relevant to someone trying to get into medium format photography/ shoot actively, than the ten thousandth repost of how with several factors equalized in a way hat is not at all reflective of real world use and processed in a sub optimal way, a P45+ and some sony DSLRs deliver very similar boring test images. Hell, how many newbies who come here for advice know that one of the most vocal posters here has very little experience in medium format photography and doesn't even own any medium format gear anymore?

When was the last time you or any other tech guys looked at an image posted here and asked the poster "can you explain how so and so look/ effect etc. Was achieved"? When was the last time you looked at your Hasselblad as anything more than an expensive testing rig?

If you and your buddies can't think outside the self contrived box of charts and graphs, why not keep those discussions contained in their own section and please let other discussions have a fighting chance? That's all I am asking. And it's not for me, but for all the people who enjoy photography as an art who have either stopped posting here or cut their posting down to a minimum because everything is now a shouting contest and their voices are getting drowned out by far more vocal tech talk.

Something to do with SNR in your language, I think.
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Pics2

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #95 on: November 29, 2014, 06:34:53 am »

I completely agree with Synn. The discussions became boring. It's been going for months and I started avoiding LL, which is a shame.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 06:36:32 am by Pics2 »
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Theodoros

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #96 on: November 29, 2014, 06:54:28 am »

I completely agree with Synn. The discussions became boring. It's been going for months and I started avoiding LL, which is a shame.
Yeah, but they aren't boring because of tech talk existence (in general)... It is the "kind" of tech talk, the size of it and the domination it creates that is the (real) problem... More than that... really beneficial tech talk is not supported at all...

Is "pixel" size really tech talk (and the only tech talk that there can be)? ...and if some consider that is, how much "talking" about it there can be?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2014, 07:37:24 am »

Synn, you have my sympathy but you’ve got this arse-over-tit. You’re fighting a losing battle in trying to limit tech talk on an "Equipment and Techniques" forum.

It is indeed that simple. In an equipment and technique forum one could 'occasionally' encounter techtalk ...

A more useful feature than a separate (non-)tech forum (which would require additional moderation), would be to allow marking of all messages in a particular forum as "Read", so they would not show up in the new messages list (or at least get flagged as having been read so one can skip it). That would also take care of e.g. all "For Sale" bumped messages overcrowding the new unread messages list, when one is not interested in trading/buying at that moment. It still takes a deliberate action from the reader, so people who have something to sell would still get exposure.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 07:45:00 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Theodoros

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2014, 08:20:44 am »




                       Babel!
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synn

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Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2014, 08:39:34 am »

Techniques isn't the same as tech talk, gentlemen.
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