Why Leica is staying at 37.5MP for the S (Typ 007)

[BernardLanguillier]

You'll make your decision depending on DXO tests?  I'll trust my decision based on my own tests alright...

A first hand comparative test would work just as well and is likely to deliver the exact same results.

When the double O 7 gets released, I'd be more than happy to shoot brick walls with you if that's your cup of tea.

Cheers,
Bernard

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Theodoros,

Weather is bad, good for testing.

Weather is not related to Leica S (type 007). Well, except it is weather proofed, which is a good thing in my book.

I did answer your questions, as reasonably as I could. May be I am not clear enough, but I have to admit that English is not my first language. So there may be some fine points I miss.

Just to make clear, I am not very religious and I have a deep distrust in marketing messages. You obviously believe that a product announced at Photokina but not yet released will be superior due to some magic/engineering/divine intervention. Personally, I believe in science and established knowledge.

Best regards
Erik

Unbelievable! ...this guy (Erik) will do anything to avoid answering QUESTIONS posted to him and will post anything as to alter a subject!  How is the weather Erik?  What's the relevance of the above to Leica S 007? 

[Theodoros]

A first hand comparative test would work just as well and is likely to deliver the exact same results.

When the double O 7 gets released, I'd be more than happy to shoot brick walls with you if that's your cup of tea.

Cheers,
Bernard

Not my cup of tea... thanks for the offer though... you only have to find another companion in spending your day... (the way you suggested).

[Theodoros]

Hi Theodoros,

Weather is bad, good for testing.

Weather is not related to Leica S (type 007). Well, except it is weather proofed, which is a good thing in my book.

I did answer your questions, as reasonably as I could. May be I am not clear enough, but I have to admit that English is not my first language. So there may be some fine points I miss.

Just to make clear, I am not very religious and I have a deep distrust in marketing messages. You obviously believe that a product announced at Photokina but not yet released will be superior due to some magic/engineering/divine intervention. Personally, I believe in science and established knowledge.

Best regards
Erik

...in which you are the master of... is that correct? ...Where can one see your photography Erik? I mean your ....PHOTO-graphy! 

[BernardLanguillier]

Not my cup of tea... thanks for the offer though... you only have to find another companion in spending your day... (the way you suggested).

Well... the key thing missing here is a working 007 isn't it?...

I guess you didn't notice the irony of your comment about judging based on first hand experience coming after pages of 007 adoration based on a spec sheet? 

Cheers,
Bernard

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Theodoros,

I have a link to my portfolio to in my signature: http://echophoto.smugmug.com (second line from top). I guess it has been there for 3-5 years.

The images for my next exhibition are here: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Themes/Berg-dal-och-vatten

Best regards
Erik

...in which you are the master of... is that correct? ...Where can one see your photography Erik? I mean your ....PHOTO-graphy!  

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Theodoros,

I just mentioned my source of income…

But clearly, I have a fascination with nuclear physics dating back to around 1965, when I was given a small book on nuclear physics  written by a hungarian professor called "Öveges". In 1980 I was studying reactor physics for Nils-Göran Sjöstrand who passed away this year.

Sorry for deviating from the thread, but I can give some credit to two persons who had a great importance for my life.

Best regards
Erik

Oh BC... can't you see that the man is a "different" kind of artist? He is posting to MF photography forums as to teach men on how to it... It's the "know how" he knows... What is our trivial photography when compared to nuclear reactors? ...It's "nuclear art" we are talking here! ...all well supported under logic!

[Theodoros]

Hi Theodoros,

I just mentioned my source of income…

But clearly, I have a fascination with nuclear physics dating back to around 1965, when I was given a small book on nuclear physics  written by a hungarian professor called "Öveges". In 1980 I was studying reactor physics for Nils-Göran Sjöstrand who passed away this year.

Sorry for deviating from the thread, but I can give some credit to two persons who had a great importance for my life.

Best regards
Erik

No body asked you of your origins or references Erik... It's the S-007 we are (were?) talking about here...

P.S. (edit): Thanks for posting your images... did you ever had any luck with them? (Please don't ask of my opinion)

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Some guys and dolls like my images. You are obviously not among them.

Let me just remind you that you are the one who commented on my profession and asked for my images. It seems your memory is short…

Best regards
Erik

No body asked you of your origins or references Erik... It's the S-007 we are (were?) talking about here...

P.S. (edit): Thanks for posting your images... did you ever had any luck with them? (Please don't ask of my opinion)

[Ken R]

Erik, maybe you should also post the ENTIRE frame of the image crops you keep posting. Just to prevent confusion. Also post images of the entire frame and crops of images made using focal lengths with equal angle of view in each format. Again, people just see the crop from the A77 feather image or chart and just see that it looks way better and may not read on the entire writeup and not realize that that with the A77 the equivalent focal length is MUCH longer than what you are using on the P45+ and therefore you are putting MUCH more pixels on the target you are cropping. Posting crops out of the context of the entire frame only paints a small part of the picture. Pun intended.

I am good reading between the lines Erik. And in almost every post the point you just keep hammering is that the medium format solutions and specially the new Leica S is a terrible value and one can get similar or even better results with MUCH cheaper gear. That maybe true if you just take into consideration the QUANTITATIVE aspect of the gear. What can be measured. You forget that there is a HUGE, QUALITATIVE aspect to Photography. Sometimes what is "imperfect" to someone is a desired characteristic to another person. Since you are an Engineer I understand your continuous focus on the purely technical stuff and forgetting about the subjective aspects of Photography (that is where BC comes in). You have almost 8,000 posts. So its no wonder most discussions here are very imbalanced and always end more being about the measurable elements.

A camera is much more than just its sensor, and sometimes even more than the sum of its parts.

Don't get me wrong, the tech part is necessary, well, at least to those who deal with making photo hardware and software. Give a few companies a call. Maybe they are hiring consultants.

[Theodoros]

Hi,

Some guys and dolls like my images. You are obviously not among them.

Let me just remind you that you are the one who commented on my profession and asked for my images.

Best regards
Erik

I never comment on your "images" (nor I ever will)... I just asked... "did you ever had any luck with them"? ...it's an irrelevant to the O/P question that one may be right to avoid... but then again, you've been avoiding all my other Qs which where RIGHT ON THE SUBJECT... just to remind you... "the relevance of testing", the "appliance of physics reference"... and all others...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi BC,

Any comment from you is appreciated.

I don't know if my photography is improved, I may even feel that there may be a degradation since I am shooting MFD.

I joined a workshop with Hans Kruse this year, and I think I learned a lot from that, although I was just shooting Sony with the Hasselblad staying at the hotel.
Nothing beats going up four in the morning, drive for a hour on winding serpentine roads in the dark, shooting at sunrise at some mountain peak and doing the same in reverse each evening.

I am planning on another workshop with Hans Kruse…

Doing experiments is a learning experience…, curiosity is what makes mankind moving forward. Without curiosity we would still be sitting in caves, perhaps making great art…

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

This thread has been good for you as your photography is improving.

Much more interesting than those feathers.

Though just a thought, but I think the first image will make people a little dizzy.

If you sell this as a print, please warn the owners not to hang it near a staircase.

Can't wait to see the next session.

Keep it up.  

BC

[Theodoros]

Hi BC,

Any comment from you is appreciated.

I don't know if my photography is improved, I may even feel that there may be a degradation since I am shooting MFD.

I joined a workshop with Hans Kruse this year, and I think I learned a lot from that, although I was just shooting Sony with the Hasselblad staying at the hotel.
Nothing beats going up four in the morning, drive for a hour on winding serpentine roads in the dark, shooting at sunrise at some mountain peak and doing the same in reverse each evening.

I am planning on another workshop with Hans Kruse…

Doing experiments is a learning experience…, curiosity is what makes mankind moving forward. Without curiosity we would still be sitting in caves, perhaps making great art…

Best regards
Erik

OH Erik, Erik, Erik... you are unbelievable and still don't learn on how to correct things... All this time you are trying to convince BC on how foolish he is on choosing S for his major camera... remember? ...and he is not even using S007... and he did explain to you how great his S2 is... and he does use it as an MFDB only since his lenses are the C645 ones... and YOU STILL DON'T LEARN a bit!

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Theodoros,

Just to say, BC did buy an additional S2 because he feels some mistrust for the CMOS based S. BC also shoots with a Panasonic GH3 which he happens to consider a serious camera, a few Canon EOS cameras and Red.

I don't necessarily share BC's opinion, but I have great respect for his professional work and also his opinion.

Something I may also add is that I have great respect for Leica taking bold steps forward in a shrinking business and making a great turn around. On the other hand I am not attracted by their products.

Best regards
Erik

OH Erik, Erik, Erik... you are unbelievable and still don't learn on how to correct things... All this time you are trying to convince BC on how foolish he is on choosing S for his major camera... remember? ...and he is not even using S007... and he did explain to you how great his S2 is... and he does use it as an MFDB only since his lenses are the C645 ones... and YOU STILL DON'T LEARN a bit!

[Theodoros]

Hi Theodoros,

Just to say, BC did buy an additional S2 because he feels some mistrust for the CMOS based S.

Best regards
Erik

Who ever mentioned that? ...Jesus man! ...you are the only one suggesting all this time that he shouldn't!

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Theodoros, I talk about BC and not JC.

Very clearly BC is shooting Leica S2 and he is skeptical about the CMOS based S (Typ 007). Who said that?  BC did, many times. What JC is shooting I don't know, if you have good channels of communications you can ask…

Best regards
Erik

Who ever mentioned that? ...Jesus man! ...you are the only one suggesting all this time that he shouldn't!

[Theodoros]

Hi,

Theodoros, I talk about BC and not JC.

Very clearly BC is shooting Leica S2 and he is skeptical about the CMOS based S (Typ 007). Who said that?  BC did, many times. What JC is shooting I don't know, if you have good channels of communications you can ask…

Best regards
Erik

Erik, I'm leaving the conversation... you can can clearly have ones ears smoking... All you ever posted is pixel size which is equal on all Leica S and is all you criticise all this time... You may post all irrelevant than questions asked to you all you want... Jesus man!

[bjanes]

Hi Theodoros,

Weather is bad, good for testing.

Weather is not related to Leica S (type 007). Well, except it is weather proofed, which is a good thing in my book.

I did answer your questions, as reasonably as I could. May be I am not clear enough, but I have to admit that English is not my first language. So there may be some fine points I miss.

Just to make clear, I am not very religious and I have a deep distrust in marketing messages. You obviously believe that a product announced at Photokina but not yet released will be superior due to some magic/engineering/divine intervention. Personally, I believe in science and established knowledge.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

English is my first language and your explanations are perfectly clear to me and are supported by your images. Perhaps Theodorius is the one who is lacking in comprehension of language and technological matters.  

When the MFDB crowd lacked CMOS sensors with their vastly improved read noise characteristics they tried to turn that to an advantage of purported CCD superiority of color rendering and a 6 stop DR advantage. Now they have CMOS but no clear resolution advantage, so the argument changes paradoxically to the talking point that increased resolution would impair image quality.

You have made your point, and further reasoning with Theodorius will likely prove futile.

Regards,

Bill

PS

Thank God he has left the discussion without having contributed anything.

[Theodoros]

Hi Bluepee-ill... who is Theodorius?

[KAHA]

Merci Beaucoup LOL 

- The Photographer is that handsome man with the leather jacket who is standing next to the AD. All the girls at Elle love him, and he is seen at every nightclub, gets the jobs, writes the invoices and as long as he's here he gives the essential instructions like "Run down to Louboutin and get us some matte pumps" or "Liliane, time to sparkle for the next shot, do go and powder your nose". He'll make sure to be seen leaving with a couple of models as soon as the shoot wraps.

- The  assistant is that miserable mousy thing standing next to the camera cart, who has just stepped back from the camera. He really needs to wash his hair, in fact it looks like he should take a bath.  But he won't have much time for that tonight because after the shot he needs to pack everything and then he has to get the first batch of previews retouched.

 You see?  Artists and techies each have the life they deserve. Now, isn't that the way it should always be?

Edmund