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Author Topic: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1  (Read 20407 times)

Manoli

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 02:01:13 am »

Native lenses lose value over time. Quality Leica glass doesn't. Hence my statement that's it's worth more to me keeping it, than selling it and replacing it with native glass. Better to buy a couple of native lenses and see how you go before letting the R and M lenses go.

That's good pragmatic advice.

@OP: Leica M wides are below par on the A7 series, but at 75mm and up perform well on the A7. Your post was not confined to the Sony, but also the Fuji X series. Leica glass on the Fuji X is excellent. Period.

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JV

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 07:42:40 am »

Hi Jon,

Why not also consider a used Leica M9?

A Sony with adapter will set you back almost as much as a used Leica M9.

Best, Joris.
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allegretto

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2014, 10:36:08 am »

Let me chime in and say I was really tickled with the prices I received when I sold my M-glass after I sold my M8.2

And then I kicked myself in the butt when I decided on an M240

Let your children sell your M-glass if they don't want it. No lens appreciates... but an M does!

he doesn't want an M9 JV, he wants MPxls....
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JV

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2014, 07:42:43 pm »

he doesn't want an M9 JV, he wants MPxls....

I guess the M9 has slightly more than the Fuji's being considered...although if you are looking for MPxls the A7R is the obvious choice...

From what I have read the A7R is not so good though with Leica glass...  I own the A7s and first tests (also) with the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter have been satisfactory I must say.

As far as X-Pro1 versus X-T1 goes I prefer the handling of the X-pro1 and its X-Trans I files over the X-Trans II files.

An potentially interesting (although quite biased IMO) read comparing the Sony A7 with the Fuji X-T1 is the following:
http://jliesche.wordpress.com/x-t1vsa7/

I don't agree with quite a few things in the article, e.g. IMO the Fuji beats the Sony easily as far as looks and handling is concerned...

The article does touch upon the main pain points of the A7 family: lack of native lens support and really bad battery life.
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allegretto

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2014, 09:07:09 pm »

my experience with the X-Pro IQ was very positive. On that and color balance it bests any Sony sensor I've seen. Including N-files. Cant stand the red cast, but I realize that's just my taste.

I shoot my family mainly and an early X-Pro was not nearly the camera I needed however.
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sharperstill

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2014, 08:26:44 am »

Huh????
You invited thoughts on what to keep:

I gave you my thoughts based on actual experience and you say I'm being nonsensical.  ???

Yes, I found my Leica glass yielded excellent results on mirrorless systems, and really wasn't awkward to use. The results I got were worth more to me than the couple of grand I'd get selling them. Once I'd sold my Leica glass, if I ever wanted it again, I doubt I could afford to buy it back. Native lenses lose value over time. Quality Leica glass doesn't. Hence my statement that's it's worth more to me keeping it, than selling it and replacing it with native glass.
Better to buy a couple of native lenses and see how you go before letting the R and M lenses go.
In my humble opinion.
Sorry the opinion you invited seemed to irk you. I was trying to help based on having used both Nex and m4/3rds lenses as well as Leica.
Point taken. Sorry, I must have been grumpy and thinking in purely $ terms.
It's a bit of an either/or situation for me though. I won't get enough for the M6 body to buy an A7,
If the use of non-native lenses "really wasn't awkward to use" would you care to share your shooting 'workflow'?
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Chrisso26

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2014, 04:50:34 pm »

I mostly shoot in 'manual' anyway. Or aperture priority. I set the aperture on the lens itself to suit the image I'm hoping to capture.
The only thing I really have to think about then is manual focussing. The M lenses are pretty quick and easy to focus in my experience, especially with focus peaking and focus zoom on modern compact cameras.
I guess it's subjective, but I've found I prefer the IQ of my M lenses on the Panny GH1 and Nex7 to the native offerings (I haven't tried Olympus or Zeiss lenses).
The major thing you are missing with legacy lenses is a wide option on cropped sensor cameras. I think the widest M lens is 21mm? The widest I own is 28mm and it's not wide at all on my Nex or m4/3rds bodies.
I'm using M glass on a Blackmagic m4/3rds video camera too. The Leica 35mm, f2 is as sharp as the Sigma 18-35mm which is deemed to be one of the sharpest lenses you can use on the Blackmagic cameras. So I can't see me selling my M glass any time soon as they've been continuously useful since I bought them in 1988..
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Telecaster

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2014, 04:56:29 pm »

If the use of non-native lenses "really wasn't awkward to use" would you care to share your shooting 'workflow'?

I can give you mine (A7r):

  • Set aperture on lens
  • Choose composition via EVF
  • Do rough focus via peaking
  • Tweak aperture if necessary
  • Fine tune exposure via zebras
  • Place focus rectangle at the "correct" spot (optional)
  • Magnify focus rectangle & fine tune focusing (optional)
  • Press shutter button

The two optional items aren't necessary when zone focusing or when taking pics quickly with the lens stopped well down.

-Dave-
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Chrisso26

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2014, 05:15:49 pm »

I can give you mine (A7r):

  • Set aperture on lens
  • Choose composition via EVF
  • Do rough focus via peaking
  • Tweak aperture if necessary


Yes, that's what i do. The first three only most of the time. I only shoot raw, so WB is optional and I can adjust any slight mistake with exposure. My only concern is composing the shot and focus. I find focus with zoom and peaking very accurate I must say. And the beauty of being in 'manual' is I can recompose the image after focussing without having to press any further buttons.[/list]
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JV

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2014, 05:54:40 pm »

I can give you mine (A7r):

  • Set aperture on lens
  • Choose composition via EVF
  • Do rough focus via peaking
  • Tweak aperture if necessary
  • Fine tune exposure via zebras
  • Place focus rectangle at the "correct" spot (optional)
  • Magnify focus rectangle & fine tune focusing (optional)
  • Press shutter button

The two optional items aren't necessary when zone focusing or when taking pics quickly with the lens stopped well down.

-Dave-

I don't use peaking but go straight to magnification and I skip the zebras as well.

I haven't used it a lot yet but as above-mentioned (at least on the A7s) it seems to work pretty well.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2014, 06:12:03 pm »


The major thing you are missing with legacy lenses is a wide option on cropped sensor cameras. I think the widest M lens is 21mm? The widest I own is 28mm and it's not wide at all on my Nex or m4/3rds bodies.

The 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar, aka the WATE, works well on the NEX sensors I've tried, and also on FF. Because (shhh, don't let Leica hear you say this) it's a zoom, there aren't any ray angle problems to speak of. Tres cher, though.

I have a 24mm Elmar-M ASPH f/3.8 that works great on my a7S. The 18mm Super-Elmar is a nice lens, too. Neither is anywhere near as expensive as Leica's fast wides, and, with the a7S I find I don't need the lens speed.

Jim

Paul Roark

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2014, 06:26:39 pm »

With my Sony a7r, the WATE is excellent, the 24mm Elmar-M ASPH f/3.8 edges are mediocre and corners bad, in my view.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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scooby70

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2014, 06:32:21 pm »

The article does touch upon the main pain points of the A7 family: lack of native lens support and really bad battery life.

I find the battery life to be adequate. I did buy a spare but so far I've not needed to use it but maybe only using the EVF and turning the camera off when I'm not going to shoot for a few minutes helps. Also, note that the camera drains the battery even when it's turned off so I always take the battery out when putting the camera to bed for the night.

The lens situation is to be expected as it's such a new system however new ones do seem to be coming through now, both AF and MF, and most seem to be aimed at the higher end of the market. Which is nice.

Personally as a complete amateur I don't need lenses aiming to be amongst the very best new mass market lenses and I seem to be happy using my old Rokkor, Zuiko and FD's. I'll probably be tempted to get 28, 55 and 85mm AF lenses once they're out, and possibly a macro too.
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JV

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2014, 06:57:21 pm »

I find the battery life to be adequate. I did buy a spare but so far I've not needed to use it but maybe only using the EVF and turning the camera off when I'm not going to shoot for a few minutes helps. Also, note that the camera drains the battery even when it's turned off so I always take the battery out when putting the camera to bed for the night.

The lens situation is to be expected as it's such a new system however new ones do seem to be coming through now, both AF and MF, and most seem to be aimed at the higher end of the market. Which is nice.

Personally as a complete amateur I don't need lenses aiming to be amongst the very best new mass market lenses and I seem to be happy using my old Rokkor, Zuiko and FD's. I'll probably be tempted to get 28, 55 and 85mm AF lenses once they're out, and possibly a macro too.

No personal experience with the A7R and A7 but Michael also seems to have noticed the same in his review for the A7s:

I did notice that the A7s goes though batteries faster than the A7r, but with only a few days to shoot and do tests I am unable to quantify this. Video on the A7s seems to be particularly battery intensive.

I personally find it pretty bad but I also have only shot with it a few days.  Based upon my experiences so far though I wouldn't leave the house without at least 3-4 batteries.

Regarding the lenses, it is obviously a new system but if you look at the amount of quality lenses that Fuji has managed to put out in also a short period of time...

If however Sony does deliver on quality lenses next year they have a great future ahead of them IMO.  
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 07:00:57 pm by JV »
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2014, 07:08:32 pm »

With my Sony a7r, the WATE is excellent, the 24mm Elmar-M ASPH f/3.8 edges are mediocre and corners bad, in my view.

I tend to agree, although at f/11, things aren't bad. On the M240, the lens does better.

Jim

Jim Kasson

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2014, 07:13:16 pm »

I find the battery life to be adequate. I did buy a spare but so far I've not needed to use it but maybe only using the EVF and turning the camera off when I'm not going to shoot for a few minutes helps. .

I have a project that requires that I use the a7R almost continuously using the big screen for about an hour and half and 200-300 exposures per session. I've always brought spare batteries. I've never needed one.

Jim
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 07:31:28 pm by Jim Kasson »
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scooby70

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2014, 07:25:57 pm »

No personal experience with the A7R and A7 but Michael also seems to have noticed the same in his review for the A7s:

I did notice that the A7s goes though batteries faster than the A7r, but with only a few days to shoot and do tests I am unable to quantify this. Video on the A7s seems to be particularly battery intensive.

I personally find it pretty bad but I also have only shot with it a few days.  Based upon my experiences so far though I wouldn't leave the house without at least 3-4 batteries.

Regarding the lenses, it is obviously a new system but if you look at the amount of quality lenses that Fuji has managed to put out in also a short period of time...

If however Sony does deliver on quality lenses next year they have a great future ahead of them IMO.  

It would be interesting to try and quantify what's going on with batteries as some seem happy and some not. Personally I only use the EVF and I have the back screen turned off in the menu as toggling options with the display button doesn't turn the back screen completely off and you can see that there's some sort of backlight - or something - still on. I also have flight mode on and I have anything I don't want (or don't understand) turned off. It'd also be interesting to know if reviewers reporting poor battery life leave the batteries in the camera overnight.

I don't think that battery life can compete with a conventional DSLR, but I don't find it terrible and I'm also happy with the battery life of my Panasonic GX7 and G1.
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JV

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2014, 07:41:04 pm »

As said I can't speak for the A7 or A7R but the A7S is really bad.  I quickly googled it as well:

http://reframe.gizmodo.com/sony-a7s-review-the-new-king-of-full-frame-video-1601398366
...battery life is atrocious (but at least the A7s comes with two batteries)...

http://wolfcrow.com/blog/a-fun-comparison-between-the-sony-a7s-the-panasonic-gh4-and-the-canon-1dc-4k-dslr-cameras/
Sony A7s – poor battery life. Now we know why Sony includes two batteries.

etc.  

I noticed that I had Airplane Mode off.  I just turned it on since I don't use WiFi anyway.  Hopefully that makes a difference.

I really don't want to go through the hassle of taking the batteries out overnight.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 07:58:08 pm by JV »
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scooby70

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2014, 07:55:42 pm »


I really don't want to go through the hassle of taking the batteries out overnight.



Go on... It'll take just seconds :D
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Paul Roark

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Re: Leica glass on A7r, A7, X-Pro-1 , XT-1
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2014, 10:46:44 am »

FWIW, I have no problems with the a7r battery life.  I manual focus, have the WiFi off, and do not take out the battery at night.  I see no evidence that the camera is draining the battery when off.  I'm not a "motor" shooter and am selective in my shots, but I often take a half dozen or more of the same subject.  I'm at a point where I don't even carry my extra battery when I'm out for just a day with a fully-charge battery.  Yes, the battery is not as long lasting as the M9's or even Canon 5d2, but it has not been a problem for at least my style of landscape shooting.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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